I posted recently about my brother setting up an appoinment behind my back for me to assume payments for a service provider for my father, a service he assumed years ago. Well, I didn't even have to say that I wouldn't pay. He knew by my non-verbal communication. Then he started in on how now he and his wife are taking complete control of my father's life! My father is frail and forgetful but not incompacitated by any means! He is like when he was 50 except I will admit he does forget some things that a younger person wouldn't.
So I didn't say I wasn't in agreement; I didn't argue at all. I just inputed some ideas I thought were helpful and brought up an event he should be aware of. He told me to "Shut up. We are doing this and I don't want to hear a peep from you." I hung up.
I called my father and he knew nothing that all kinds of plans were being made for him and he was shocked and not happy. Just as I thought.
Thank you for everyone for "listening". I have known my brother for decades; lots of great times, but now it's over. I feel sick about it but there's also a strength I find that I am able to stick up for myself. I will be controled by him or certainly will not live his life. I'm also going to fight if they do things that deprive my father of his independence.
hug!!
i hope it's just been some misunderstanding between various people.
i'm sending lots of warm thoughts to everyone.
we're all dealing with many things.
hug!!
Unlike some of the rest of you, I don't think Lisa is doing her (his?) best. I have judged Lisa by her (or his) own words. One may or may not frown upon judgements, but unfortunately we have to make them every day--we have to make them every time we cross a street.
IF Lisa is genuine (and she or he may be) I find that very sad. If not, I find it all somewhat laughable at this point.
Just my opinion. And whatever my opinion, I never called her a "Bozo" cute as that is. I suggested she keep her dad out of the middle of her squabble with her bro, and I suggested she is harming her father with this (which I truly believe) and I suggested that since the Father CHOSE to move by the brother and CHOSE the brother as the POA, she step back.
She says she intends to fight. And quite honestly, it is my judgement that that's what Lisa likes to do--fight.
She has the sympathy of some, and their best wishes. That's great. Mine?Not so much.
we don't know your whole story (and that's your right to privacy). i'm sure you're doing your absolute best.
on a website, it's easy to misunderstand things. maybe some people misunderstood you? maybe i misunderstood you?
i think you're doing your best.
we're all going through difficult things.
we all need kind words.
i'm on your side.
i wish you well, OP!!!
DPOAs are assigned. There are two types Immediate and Springing.
Immediate means as soon as the principle signs their name the POA is in effect. But the principle can still make their own decisions if competent to do so. For me, I am immediate for my nephew because he needs to be overseen where money is concerned. We work well together with this.
Springing means (and most POAs are Springing) that the POA is not in effect until one or two doctors make a formal diagnosis of a Dementia saying the person can no longer make informed decisions. Until that time, the POA has no control over money or placing the principle.
From your discription of Dad he really isn't in a position to protest anything ur brother does. I don't care how rich you think brother is, its expensive to have round the clock care. If Dad has the funds, he should have to pay for his care. Maybe its time Dad goes to an AL if HE can afford to or LTC with Medicaid paying if he can't.
No, I don't think brother should have made an appt expecting you to pick up the bill. I don't think the average person could afford 24/7 care for a parent. For some reason, your brother does not want to pay for round the clock care. Maybe he feels if he stops it, it will force Dad into a facility where he needs to be. Brother maybe tired of dealing with the agency. Aides not showing up or doing their job. And the inheritance is SILs and she does not have to use it on her FIL.
The one thing I hate is someone assuming I have money. We do OK but not to the point we can afford paying for care for someone.
I think you and brother handled this all wrong. You both assumed a lot. What you need to do is figure out what is best for Dad. He can't be doing that great if your brother has paid for his care for years. POA is a tool not a power. Its responsibility. A responsibility to see that the principle's wishes are carried out. That when that principle is not competent any longer that care is gotten to what THEY can afford. If that money is not there then the person is placed in a facility and Medicaid is applied for. A POA is not responsible to physically care for or personally pay for the principles care. Their responsibility is to make sure the person is safe and cared for wherever that may be.
For whatever reason, and he does not have to justify himself, your brother no longer wants the responsibility of paying for Dads care.
As POA he is not obligated to give you any information concerning Dads finances or health. Decisions where he will place Dad is between him and Dad. He does not have to include you in those decisions. Same healthwise.
I think maybe you have cut ur nose off to spit ur face and Dad will be the one paying for that.
Following Bundleofjoy, I also want to show you my support. I copy/paste my comment to you from below:
I wish you strength!!
I’m an only child. But I have very kind friends who needed to cut contact with their siblings. They have their reasons for cutting, and I totally support them. They feel liberated, breathe better; their life is peaceful now.
I’m sure you have very good reasons to cut your relationship with your brother.
It’s not possible on the internet to know someone else’s circumstances.
I support you.
as i wrote:
i'm on your side!!
hug!!! :)
All you who say that because my brother has a POA and he can cut me out of everything are plain wrong. He's not in control of everything. You don't even know what POA he has!
This forum is great when there is good information to be found. But there's lots of garbage here. Some factually wrong. Some morally wrong. Personally I would never "wash my hands of my father" as so many people in this forum prescribe. My father took care of me and my brother and always taught us how to be good people, to do the right thing regardless if it's not in our best interest - that's called honor and that has allowed me to live like many people will never live. Now as an adult I at least owe him respect. That's something in my experience some children don't do for their deserving parents. I guess they feel like some of you - parents didn't have children to be cared for in later life (although some do) and therefore you owe them nothing.
Anyway, I am leaving this forum for now. It's too toxic. I hope some of you don't by your careless words make other people's serious issues more than what they are.
I agree that this OP may be a fictional character altogether, and I think we are seeing more such posts in the last 6 months or so. At least the admins moved Lisa down to discussions where we can continue to have fun with him/her/they/them.
Me thinks this Lisa Trevor poster is a big faker. More than likely none of this is real.
Yet it is still fascinating.
Perhaps it is the mystery regarding what these lavish and expensive services are that dad gets. That poster won't divulge.
The nature of dad's illness. What if dad is Lisa Trevor and has some sort of split personality where he thinks he is both his father and his son.
Either way Umbrella Corp has some serious explaining to do.
You also bristle at any list of chores bro gives you, because it makes you feel like a servant. If bro can’t count on you to do these chores, then he will have to pay the agency more. Since you just made faces in silence, well bro won’t care that you brought dad some Hawaiian bbq or whatever takeout.
Bro definitely doesn’t trust you now, so whatever you now say to dad will just be your speculation versus what’s really going on.
Yet you are still stuck on Brother is the Bad Guy here? You need to rethink your entire perspective on this situation! YOU are the one who's in the wrong here, entirely! But you won't see that, for some reason, b/c you've stuck yourself up on some sort of pedestal where you assume no fault, no responsibility, just the 'job' of ordering some 'high quality take out meals' for dad a couple times a week. You moved away from your life to be near dad & brother for THIS? I'm actually sorry for brother & dad that you made that choice!
Realize that Assisted Living is a GOOD THING for the vast majority of seniors who have the luxury of being able to afford to live in one. My parents had that luxury for 7 years, thank God, and lived in a AL that looked more like a high end hotel than anything else. They had caregivers available to them at the push of a button, meal service in a dining room or in room, and activities galore. Doctors to see them on site, and too much to go into here. Your father is fortunate to have such an opportunity to continue to be afforded a lavish lifestyle, with AUTONOMY to boot! What on earth makes you think Assisted Living 'deprives your father of his independence'? Do you think AL is a prison where the resident doesn't have rights, an apartment of his own, or the right to leave via the front door whenever he'd like? Think again b/c you are misinformed about what AL is all about!
Stop the nonsense & consider YOUR FATHER'S WELL BEING here instead of your ongoing feud with your brother! That should be your #1 priority here, since that's why you relocated in the first place! Trying to pit dad against his son is a nasty thing to do. What YOU have against your brother is between the two of YOU and has nothing to do with dad. Feel free to 'stick up for yourself' but not at dad's expense!
I’m a man (I’m referring to Isthisrealyreal’s message below).
I feel a lot of empathy for all female caregivers. It’s not fair that 99.9999999999999999999999999999% of caregivers are women. Unjust.
Another area where women are exploited, taken advantage of.
We men in the world obviously aren’t doing our share.
Poodle Doodle
Then you say that your brother "assumed" said service years ago.
In other words, your brother has always been paying for your father's homecare services and now wants you to pay some?
You expect your brother to already know that you refuse to pay because he should be able to translate your body language and/or facial gestures which indicated your refusal. You didn't argue with your brother or even tell him 'no' on his plan. In fact, you said nothing at all to him. Yet, you expect him to read your mind.
This is completely ridiculous and total nonsense. I feel sorry for your father that the poor old man is in the middle of it.
Why don't we speak plainly here and call a spade a spade. You're not going to fight or take any action at all. You don't want any of the responsibility that follows the 'fighting' and the 'taking action' when it comes to the care arrangements of an elder or a child.
And there are responsibilities. You may have to take on some of the care. You may have to put in hours every week providing companionship (i.e. baby-sitting) or some hands-on care, do the doctor's appointments, arrange and pay hired caregivers, or even have your father living with you. It sounds like a lot because it is.
What you will likely do is criticize, put down, find fault, and knit-pick whatever care arrangements your brother makes for your father. Then solicit sympathy from others because your brother is controlling. Are you an adult? Act like one then. From what you've said here, your brother has been the one doing for your father. Not you.
So if you're willing to grow a backbone and stand up to your brother about your father's care plans, more power to you. Be prepared to take on the responsibilities that come with that.
If not keep your mouth shut and keep your suggestions to yourself. The person who has to take the responsibility for your father's care doesn't need or want your advice.
I’m an only child. But I have very kind friends who needed to cut contact with their siblings. They have their reasons for cutting, and I totally support them. They feel liberated, breathe better; their life is peaceful now.
I’m sure you have very good reasons to cut your relationship with your brother.
It’s not possible on the internet to know someone else’s circumstances.
I support you.
"Lisa Trevor is a character from the Resident Evil series of survival horror games. She is featured in the Resident Evil remake and Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles. Lisa was a human test subject forced to undergo a plethora of biological experiments conducted by the nefarious Umbrella Corporation."
Wow, am I ever with RealyReal. I will try to put it another way, but I will be willing to bet you will be just as offended as were I to say "Shut up!", because you have already declared your willingness to fight.
I would step away now were I you. Your calling your father, who is impaired, with this squabbling has GOT to be upsetting him. Does that not concern you? You are being divisive. I feel so sorry for your poor father. What you are doing is, in short, CRUEL.
I don't have any interest in the squabbling of brothers and sisters, and sisters and sisters, and brothers and brothers UNTIL it is set at the feet of the poor PARENT like a cat dropping a half-dead mouse.
If the brother and wife are primary caregivers in the care of Dad I trust what they say about his needs. I would keep out of their way with input and leave it be. Offer help. Otherwise don't offer anything.
Decisions involve Dad, who you say is still quite capable, and the primary caregivers which is the son and his wife.
So just offer help. Just make conversations with Dad NOT ABOUT YOUR BROTHER would be my recommend.
You say you are "going to fight." This squabbling siblings scene is an ugly one that we see all the time on Forum. It is DREADFUL for the parents.
I am really sorry to come down on you this hard. BUT! Your Dad moved to be by your brother and his wife. Your brother has been made POA by your Dad. YOU then moved there, too. I think you are suffering from some jealousy and I think you could use a good counselor to iron this out with.
Your descriptions of exactly what you said and exactly what the response was isn't given. Just some nebulous description of you innocently giving a "reminder" and your brother coming down hard. I think he has had it about up to here with reminders.
I would leave it.
You said you considered moving away. I think that might be for the best.
You tell us you once had a wonderful relationship with your brother. I would seek counseling in all truth to iron out word for word what is happening and to get input on how to handle this, and for the love of heaven, let your Dad OUT OF THIS squabble. He looks more like Solomon's baby every day.
First, I recognize that they have the rights because my parents gave them those rights of their own free will. As I would want to see my parents, I wouldn’t get in fights with them let alone rile my parents up about how they shouldn’t be in a facility and all this.
You aren’t just going to lose your brother over this. He has the poa and could well stop you from even visiting.
Now, you want to voice your opinion. I would tell you to shut up too. You don't get to pick and choose when you are going to communicate, it is childish, churlish behavior and not something a grown man should be proud of or doing.
You are declaring that you are going to make this as hard as possible for everyone involved, including your dad. You need to grow up and look at the benefits your dad will have with being in an environment with peers, activities and services.
Stop being nasty and support your family in this difficult time.
Why can't all 3 of you sit down and talk honestly about what is going on? What the options and alternatives are, etc?
Sounds like there is a lot of guilt about what needs to be done on your brothers end regarding dad and it is making him angry and lashing out at you because your only concern is dad but you don't want to take on the responsibility for dad yourself.
This weird dynamic that dad should live a lavish lifestyle that he can't afford is not sustainable.
You say brother has been taking care of dad for years. Exactly how many years and at what monthly financial cost?
"I called my father and he knew nothing that all kinds of plans were being made for him and he was shocked and not happy."
It occurred to me with your other posts, also, that your father has this kind of reaction, expecting YOU to handle HIS disagreements with your brother? Why are you the go-between?
Now you write that you are not going to allow your brother to make decisions for your father without your father's (and your?) input. How are you going to not allow this? Are you going to go to an eldercare attorney? Are you going to get your father to change the POA (and HCPOA?) to you? Is this what you want? At that point your brother may exit the caregiving picture entirely. Would this be acceptable to you?
hug!!! :)
Maybe your brother DID discuss a move to Assisted Living with dad, and dad forgot.
As POA, your brother doesn’t HAVE to get your input. His duty is to your father.
Much depends on how the POA is written. Is it durable or springing? Does it require a declaration of lack of capacity by a physician?
Lisa, your posts sound overwrought and quite emotional of late. It's very hard to watch a loved parent grow old and start to become debilitated. You seem to have gone into "Tiger Daughter" mode--trying to ward off aging and the need for more support for your dad. You see your brother as the enemy when in fact it is the aging process that's the culprit.
Your brother his trying--and you throw up barriers at every turn.
"Lead, follow or get out of the way" seems to be appropriate advice.
My father wanted my brother to have the POA because my brother lived nearby and at the time I lived far away. I do not think my father will go through the hassel of changing the POA. I think that's what he has. I am not sure if it's just medical or what. I find it difficulut to believe my brother can make decisions with my father's affairs, even though my father is in mostly sound mental health?
If they have no ill intentions are you simply upset because your input is not being considered?
My brother has no alterior motives, which obviously is good, but he needs imput from my father first!
If no, why not just get your father to draft up a new PoA? If he has such an issue with how your brother is handling his care.