Saying "no" to a parent.
It occurs to me that an awful lot of folks here have real difficulty saying a simple "no" to their parents.
In general, as children, we are brought up to respect our parents' instructions, desires and wishes. The adults know better, yes?
When WE become adults, WE are the ones who see the big picture. Hopefully, we have jobs, careers, families, community commitments; all in all, a basis on which our sense of self is validated.
We remain loyal to our parents, but there comes a time when their "wants" are no longer in accord with what they actually need. And sometimes their "wants" need to be balanced against the good of our families and livelihoods.
Parents who won't accept outside help, who insist on doing things the way they were done centuries ago in "the old country", who want things that their financial resources will not support present situations in which we, as adults, must say "no, Mom/Dad, I can't possibly do that".
There are also very dysfunctional folks who become elders with personality disorders, addictions, mental illness. If you've grown up with this sort of dysfunctionality all your life, you have no experience with setting a healthy boundary and practicing self-preservation.
Saying "no" to your parent is part and parcel of becoming an adult. It doesn't mean you are dishonoring them. It just means that you've grown up.
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Yesterday took ‘Diner Mom’ to neuro doc follow-up appt. after her stint in the ER in Nov. (Didn’t take meds at night cause she was getting home late and didn’t know if taking it too late would interfere with morning pill - so she stopped taking dinner pill. Never mind finding out from pharmacy or doc if this was a good idea . . . .)
Mom told me I wasn’t welcome to go back with her and the doc, but could after she spoke to him. [Almost lost it right then and there.] By the time I was ushered back, it was clear there had been a love fest because, according to the doc, she’s such a ‘lovely woman’. Doc apparently didn’t take time to review her info - he didn’t remember it was HE, in the hospital, who TOLD her not to drive and discharged her with script for a driver eval. No mention of returning her keys, but to visit any driver testing facility for an eval.
Tonight, Mom leaves a message that she expects me to return her car keys and bring to her house tomorrow. “As long as we're acting in their best interest to keep them safe, using the word No becomes imperative for all involved.” applies to me.
Again, God knew I needed to see this thread tonight!
We do carry that commandment to extremes at times. Some of us were truly confused. We needed to learn that honoring our parents does not mean being a doormat.
Consider the fact that the frequent references to Christian Scripture in Townsend and Cloud has to do with the frequent guilting of children in the Abrahamic traditions. "Honor your parents" is often used as a stick to beat children who try to have their own lives into submission.
If you don't subscribe to that tradition, simply bypass those sections. It is a fundamentally sound text, no matter your orientation, I think.
Take away what is useful from the book. If you don’t relate to Christianity then disregard those segments. Lots of self help books or programs such as Alcoholic’s Anonymous or any 12 step program are based on a spiritual foundation but they recognize that not everyone believes in Christ. So, a higher power can be according to your own beliefs. Use the references as a guideline. The principles work no matter what you choose personally as your higher power.
Many are helped by deep faith and it is true that some people misuse faith to harm others. That is sad and unfortunate.
I don’t believe that we should push any faith down other people’s throats. We live in America and have freedom of choice. Our greatest witness to our beliefs should be by good example, actions speak louder than words.
Personally, I have known atheists that are loving, kind and moral people. I have known Christians who are hateful hypocrites. The reverse is true too. I have known “Godless” people who are hateful and Christian people who are incredibly caring. So, I don’t feel that we can generalize. We are all unique in our own way, regardless of being a believer or not.
Anyway, I am glad that you were able to find useful information in the book. Books, therapy and this forum have helped tremendously for a lot of us.
I made the same mistake as you about setting boundaries soon enough. Here’s the thing though, early on, we had no frame of reference so we were bound to make mistakes along the way. Caregiving is a long and winding road with many bumps and potholes along the way!
Take care.
The biggest takeaway that I learned from this book is that boundaries are for our own protection**. We set them and enforce them according to our own needs. Not to change the other person’s behavior.* The authors spend a lot of time explaining that this is NOT selfish. Like the stewardess says about airplane crashes; always put on your own oxygen mask first. This is a basic survival skill. When our own health (mental, physical, or spiritual) suffers, we are overextending ourselves. This is my opinion. I see examples of people over extending themselves on this site a lot.
Knowing this, it’s still tough for me to set boundaries, though. Especially with my mom. Sometimes with others too. Guilt trips galore ! I’m asking for support and strength here, to change my part in this unhealthy dynamic. As the book above says, most of us would benefit from being clearer about setting our own and also accepting other people’s boundaries.*** I am responsible for my own feelings. I don’t have to accept the guilt anymore. Maybe we can support each other in learning how to set and respect boundaries ?
Thanks in advance. And thanks BarbBrooklyn for starting this post. XOXO
It’s okay to let go. I finally did. Very hard. Yes, indeed sad but sometimes necessary.
Is your mom living with you? If possible please look at help, either caregivers at your home to relieve you or look into a facility. Some assisted living facilities even offer respite care so you can go on a vacation for a week or two.
Sending you many hugs!
Watching one parent finding it hard to say no to the other. Infexible ridgid thinking'No' brings on tears & tantrums.
This topic is exactly what I need to learn how to do. It feels like my mom will literally suck the last breath out of me. Learning now (in my 6th decade) that I’ve been people pleasing most of my life. This is in several relationships, but most pronounced with 93 y o mom. Ugh !
Your words or actions are not what is hurting your mom. I know that you are assuming responsibility for it. Trust me, I fell into the same trap with my mom until I finally listened to others regarding my mom. So I am in no way criticizing or judging you.
Unfortunately, many people deal with moms like ours who want everything their way. I was determined that I would not repeat this cycle with my daughters.
My daughter is a young college student about to graduate. She recently applied for an internship and was accepted.
The internship is here in Louisiana but my daughter has hopes of moving to Colorado. I support her no matter where she wants to live. Once she gains experience they told her that she will qualify for moving to their Colorado location.
My husband and I went out to eat sushi with friends over the weekend. All of our friends were thrilled to hear the good news about my daughter’s internship.
One of my friends walked with me to the ladies room. I was telling her that my daughter really wants to go to Colorado.
My friend asked me how I felt about my daughter moving. I was honest and said that I would miss her but I want her to be happy. If she is happy, then I am happy for her.
My friend says, “Tell her not to move.” I told her that I would never in a million years do that. She said that she would tell her daughter not to move. Sometimes she will interfere in her children’s lives which I find selfish.
Do you see what I am saying? People who expect everything their way are expressing selfish behavior.
Is my daughter wrong to desire to move to Colorado? No, she isn’t. Do you know what my daughter told me when I told her that I was happy for her?
She said, “Thanks mom, you have always supported me. You treat me like an adult and don’t try to run my life. I want to know how you and dad feel but I am glad that you don’t try to take over like some of my friend’s parents.”
I told her that I am not going to be around forever and it was my job to raise her to be independent and make her own choices. I respect those choices.
Your mom needs to respect your choices. Hey, no matter what those choices are. You are entitled to your own opinions and to live life as you see fit.
I don’t even have a relationship with my mom now because she crossed too many lines. Am I happy about that? No. Do I love her? Yes. Do I miss her? I miss having a mom but not the agony.
I don’t want my daughter to put me first. I want her to live her life. I was living my whole life for my mom. It doesn’t work. I hope that I expressed that clearly enough. Sometimes I rant and ramble because my emotions get the best of me at times. Therapy helps. I still have a ways to go. I am working on it.
I wish I could take your anguish from you. You are going to get through this. Won’t be without pain or confusion but you will make it nevertheless.
Hugs! Been there and surviving.
But about your mom...
Most folks have what is sometimes thought of as a reservoir of good feelings, self esteem and positive self regard. Some folks term this "narcissistic supply". We get this from being the center of the universe as babies, from out parents and loved ones attending to our needs and gaining positive feedback from the world about our actions and beingness.
Some people, when through genetic predisposition, biology, environment or all three (the science is still out on this) develop an unfillable wound; they lack that narcissistic supply, for some reason.
They spend their lives searching for enough "stuff"--attention, wealth, power and the like to fill up the hole and at the same time, acting in such a demeaning and belittling way towards others so that they almost guarantee that they can't get their needs for reassurance met.
I'm oversimplifying. But you need to understand, Karsten, that YOU didn't cause the hurt and NO AMOUNT OF SAYING YES will fix what is lacking in your mom.
You don't "wound her to her core" when you say no. When you say no, you are actually helping her by assuring her that there are limits out there and that her neediness is not going to consume her.
Even though she is perversely nasty to you when you say no, that grateful infant inside her is actually reassured by it.
I do see a counselor on occasion dealing with my mom issues. (aside, I remember in the movie Pretty Woman, Richard Gere told Julia Roberts he spent so many thousand dollars for a therapist to find out he was angry at his mom. That could have been me).
While he gives me the same boundary setting advice people here give, he also pointed out the problem with my mom. He says when I say no to her, its not just me denying her the help she is requesting. He says given her narcissistic being, she takes that as a personal rejection.
My friends say she treats me as she would have treated her husband, my dad. First, expecting him to do whatever she wanted, but also belittling him when he didnt.
I am sure my counselor points that out to help me understand why she gets angry when I do say no, but I suppose in a way that is why I do have a hard time saying no
I can say I will not drive you here or do that, or do this, and feel OK. But I suppose if I feel I am hurting my mom at her core, that is hard.
There is something to recognizing ourselves in the pages of a book through objective eyes. The same with this forum. It truly helps to see something written clearly in black and white.
Even if it doesn’t hit home immediately. A seed has been planted. Sometimes it does hit us like a ton of bricks right then and there as we read it. Never underestimate the power of the written word.
One is seeing my families 'wants' as just that - wants! Anguish? Yes. Unsafe? Yes. Taking back my power to say "No, I don't agree. I won't assist with that".
The Bible says to "honor" your parents. Not move heaven and earth to accommodate their wants, especially when their "wants" are causing you anguish and are unsafe.
Plus I attended Catholic schools! Seriously though, lots of beautiful things about the faith but does have some guilt trappings attached.
It takes practice to say no. Once you get used to it. You’ll be better off. Trust me. I had the same problem as you. I finally woke up.
I was raised with guilt. My mom is Catholic!
When you bring a child into the world, you are signing on for being responsible for them until they are independent.
There is no reciprocal obligation. It was MY MOTHER who told me that, that we were not obliged to give up our lives to provide care for her. Help arranging care, paid for by her, yes.
Boundaries are healthy things to have in all relationships.
Did your mother allow you to have everything that you wanted as a child? Probably not.
Do her the courtesy of extending those same expectations to your relationship with her. Say "no" when what she wants is unreasonable, unsafe, difficult for you to do or bad for your mental or physical health.
Your father enabled her bad behavior and her refusal to get mental health treatment. That was HIS choice. You don't have to follow in his footsteps.
I did that with my kids. I allowed them limited choice, not total control. This is really good advice for the elderly parent who is no longer capable of making the proper choice. I feel the same.
In my case and mom would not listen to reason so I had no choice but to ask her to leave my home. My brother is now caring for her. Out of my hands now.
I recently posted to someone whose parent was saying "I can't think about selling my home; it's too soon to do that".
The message might really be "I can't even contemplate how complicated it would be to clean everything out; I'll just sit here".
Look, if you try to use the take charge tactic, i.e., "hey mom, here are two choices; you either need to agree to home care or be relocated to a nice AL near where I live" and the parent downright refuses and just continues to bemoan their fate, then you pack up and leave. If they are "independent" enough to refuse the help you can give them on YOUR terms, then they can find other help.
The fact that parents won't play ball with you does NOT mean that you must give up your life to support their poor choices.
Mom finally told me that because of tax issues (he was self employed and bad with paperwork) they didn’t have social security or Medicare and had taken out a mortgage to pay his medical bills!
After consulting an attorney I steeled myself and sat down with him and bluntly told him to stop being stupid and that I was signing them both up for SS and Medicare. I used guilt about ensuring that Mom was taken care of and that the only way they could stay in that house was to do this.
I think he he was just waiting for someone to take care of all of this for him. It was just too overwhelming and complicated. After that point he would just hand me bills and such and I took over their finances. We had the same confrontations over a will, POA, medical directives, etc. He used his own lawyer but I set up the appointment and organized it all.
The only thing that really worked worked was to lay out the facts, give him the options, and let him feel like he was in some degree of control. Like trying to get a toddler to wear a coat, you ask if they want to wear the red coat or the blue coat. One way or another they are going to wear a coat.
The best advice someone gave to me long ago in my coming of age years was to figure out what I need and what I want. Negotiate on the wants, but never negotiate on what I need. This simplified even the most complicated and conflicted circumstances.
With my mom, we told her not to think about clearing, cleaning, etc. Just move into the Adult Community for the Winter and we'll see what the Spring brings.
By the time Spring rolled around, mom was quite happy where she was and we started the s l o w process of cleaning out her house. We didn't actually sell it until she'd been in a NH for about 3 years.
Unless your mom has no funds at all besides the equity in her home, get her moved first and figure out the house later. It worked for us.