The Caregiver & Dysfunctional Families: How are you doing?

Fairhfullbeauty,

Don’t do Dad’s laundry , cooking , cleaning , shopping etc .

Do NOTHING for him . You are propping him up . He burns his bridges, not your problem . Step back . When he’s in bad enough shape call APS.

FB, stop today. Repeat after me "Dad. I am not your laundry maid".
Practice. Look him in the eye. Say it.

I had TWO family members that refused to wear pullups when they started to need them.

No adaquate clothing - no rides in my car. My car is not your toilet.

Don't anyone tell me Oh you'll be proud one day too.. No. When incontinent after childbirth I wore the biggest sized pads to be found - I called them surf boards! When UTIs strike, I head straight to the incontinence isle in my local supermarket. I have worn elastic waisted clothing for speed for years!!

Dad needs to wash his own clothes & then HE can decide whether to save himself some work. Or not.

I would guess his size, buy the pullups, leave them in his bedroom. And never discuss again.

Ok. Rant over.

gershun ((((((hugs))))) and prayers I never went for cognitive therapy so have no idea if it would have worked for me. There are other types of therapy. God so wants you healed.

FB - boundaries, boundaries, boundaries!!! Let him deal with his own sh#t in every sense! Limit contact and only do what is comfortable for you.

I once went to a psychologist who after one session pronounced that I did everything for my kids like their laundry. Can't remember what else. She was so off the mark. My kids had chores. As soon as they were tall enough to manage the dials they did their own laundry. They did kitchen duty and so on. I considered it a waste of money and never went back. Alva, I am surprised that your dd is considering going back.

Ali I have found it helps to figure my family out .Both in terms of relating to them and in figuring myself out.

@ BarbBrooklyn,
You are so right!!!!!

FB,

I feel your pain.

Oh my word, I gave until it hurt and trust me, I deeply regret it.

I was blind as a bat. I had so much empathy for my mother that I placed myself last for far too long.

I bought into all of the lies that people told me. Others told me that I would regret it if I didn’t care for my mother myself.

I landed in therapy because I was severely depressed and anxiety ridden. I am grateful that I had a therapist who helped me sort out my emotions.

Barb is correct in saying that I was fearful of my mother’s reactions.
Honestly, I think I was crippled by my fear.

I felt responsible for everything and I couldn’t bear to look at what would happen if I wasn’t there to help.

I also became very complacent. I was a shell of the person who I once was.

I was going through the same motions day after day, and absolutely miserable. This isn’t living life. It’s not even helping our family member to the best of our ability.

When they need more help than we can give, it’s time to let go of the responsibility and reach out for help.

I’m pulling for you. It isn’t easy to admit that things must change. When you do, it is a huge relief!

Please don’t remain in your current situation. It will only become worse.

Alva, I can't believe the nerve of a cognitive psych to give a client's family a diagnosis of ASD, sight unseen, and during the first session! That is bananas. That psych is a mystic seer, for sure! 😄

The psych is practicing very far outside their scope of competence. Funny as heck! Also, UNETHICAL. I'd say that anyone capable of giving that kind of blanket advice in a first-session-bomb-drop isn't going to be very helpful in sorting out DD's nuanced struggles.

I've come to suspect some ASD in my family, and the three I suspect are all unable to live in the world without degrees of help from others, and that's always been true. There are clear lifelong issues and differences in their capabilities, beginning in early childhood. Even then, I wonder if they would ever be officially dx'd ASD even if they did seek out the right team of specialists to assess them. But the numbers of ASD are rising, as much as 1:44 by some estimates.

Gersh, keep stepping. Keep it up, whatever it is that gives you a healthy brain boost. Meditation is difficult (for me), but like anything else, it gets easier with practice. 💙

Alva,

Wow! Unreal, huh? “Unpacking Autism.” Now, that is a stretch!!!

Gershun,

It is amazing that you had such insight at such a young age. I certainly didn’t have the insight that you did.

I needed therapy in order to gain an objective perspective on my situation.

Due to various reasons, I had so many confusing thoughts when I was growing up. I wasn’t able to sort out my feelings very easily.

Therapy helped me to understand myself and others. I had a phenomenal therapist who pointed out things to me that I wasn’t able to understand at the time.

I am glad that you are benefiting from meditation.

It is important find time to spend alone without any outside distractions .

I've been to therapists. When I was a teenager my home life was a fright due to my brother who was schizophrenic and violent and then my school life not much better where I was getting bullied. I became anorexic and mom thought talking to someone would help. The first time I went the doc asked me why I thought I was feeling bad and what was triggering stuff. I have always had pretty good insight and when I got through explaining he said "wow, who told you all that?" I said "Nobody, I just know this"

I guess the point I'm making is anytime I've pursued cognitive therapy etc. I'm not really learning anything new about myself cause I already know it. In other words "know thyself" isn't helping with anxiety/depression.

Ali, you make good points. I did start going to meditation classes two weeks ago. The first time I actually did get into a meditative state. I was sceptical going in but I told myself to be open minded about it and voila! The second week wasn't as great but I'm going to try to stick to it.

I am trying to feel God's love inside of me to. I have been struggling with self-hatred lately a lot. But I do believe in God. Very strongly. I know he doesn't want me to feel this way. So, I do try to go to that God place when I meditate.

Alva, good Lord! WTF?

FB, why on earth are you doing your father's laundry?

Have you ever heard of "natural consequences"? Let them occur.

FB, have we ever told you what NeedsHelpWithMom's therapist told her? Need said "oh, I have to keep up all this caregiving. Otherwise my mother will be upset."

The therapist said "So? So what? She gets upset. That's not YOUR problem."

FB, your dad not wearing pullups is not YOUR problem. Stop "owning" his bad decisions.

Got a funny one for you regarding psychologists, shrinking in general, and the labels we have for everything and everyONE, along with a pill to pop for current circumstances.

DD decides to see a psychologist. Cognitive therapist. Just "dealing with stuff", you know? Cutting the natal cord with son moving toward 25, ; Mom (me) with new cancer thingy going, issues at home, difficulty with physical issues making her tough work with little ones in school more difficult by the day to say nothing of the current school systems and how they work. Issues like whether best to retire early now at 62 or try to keep on keeping on.
And other stuff. You know. LIFE stuff. Kind of a check in check up and what might help with working through some of this.

So she goes to first appointment.
And comes away with what?
This woman (cognitive therapist) says that my entire family is autistic.

She says that in response to this she herself laughed and said "Really" and didn't know quite else what she should say (I would have said "you're a WONDER! Diagnosing about six other people without ever seeing them once).
And the woman sat back and said "Oh! You think I am kidding!?! Then you should read the book "Unpacking Autism".
I laughed so hard. I told her she should have said "well on top of THAT diagnosis my Mom also has an anxiety disorder and is a bit OCD, but not much I can do about THAT". HEEEEE!

Oh my god. Talk about reasons just to try to get on with it, and stop expecting happy-all-the-time. She is kind of trying now to decide between just not going back to this shrink, and continuing to "shop around", or going back kind of for the fun of it.

I myself think about "seeing someone" just for this particular round of "a spot of bother" but then think and think of the three times I had therapy (not that each didn't help and didn't contribute) and think I know all the tricks and could likely DO the therapists role, so why bother. Whether is is depression or anxiety or uncertainty of any things else I no longer think that the pills that are so common in our society are improving us much, or that the deep breathing does much more than just improve our O2 sat.
Guess I am just getting old and figure "Bad weather front incoming. Batten down the hatches" and get through the current storm, hope for sunnier weather on the other side.

@BarbBrooklyn,
His issue is going to be that he might be burning his bridges with people who actually wanted to help him. I told the physical therapist and the discharge people that I would not be moving with him or him with me. He knew this as well but I think he thought I would be forced into it but I will not be. After all that has occurred, he still does not treat me right. He purposely will not wear his pull ups. He says he does not want to wear them. Instead he just uses the bathroom on himself sometimes because he says he does not feel like getting up. I'm the one who has been washing his clothes and it is very unpleasant.

FB, you say you and another person are "trying to help". You seem to think that there is binary choice between being in thrall to your dad and walking away.

How about figuring out what you can and are willing to do? Like, taking him dinner once a week and taking him to one doc appointment a month?

Anything else requested gets the response "I can't do that. You'll have to make other arrangements."

Your dad is ONLY at home because he made an arrangement with a friend to stay with him. His stubborn and abusive behavior ran that person off. Discharge assessed as needing full time care. You cannot and should not be his full-time career, because you have to work and because he's abusive.

His needs do not trump yours.

Not doing well at all! To make a long story short, my dad is back at home after being in therapy for a few months at the swing bed in the hospital and then at the care center. We found someone ( a friend of his) to stay with him but because of his attitude, the friend left after a week! So now, he only has me and another person trying to help. I know I could walk away because of the emotional abuse I endured from him ( and still do) during my childhood, but my heart will not let me but it is wearing me down. Something is going to have to be done. He needs the help, but he could actually do better if he put forth effort.

Gersh, I sympathize. When your quality of life is suffering this long, please find your fight within you. I don't know what will help you, but something will. Long covid and situational depression/anxiety; maybe you're experiencing one or both. Maybe your body/brain needs deeper nutrition or outside stimulus (i.e., doing something different and challenging).

Psychiatrists are not ideal helpers here, as discussed, but that is always an avenue to try. I think trying something is better than trying nothing because we affirm that 1) we need treatment, and 2) we are worthy of treatment. So it's a kind of affirmation of ourselves, imo, just by seeking care.

Whatever it takes to signal to your brain that you deserve better. Find that thing, anything; go do it. Intense self-care is an option, too. Spoil yourself silly for a week..? But really overdo it. lol

Can you do something different to get out of the rut? Will your hubs divorce you if you take a 3-day road trip by yourself to somewhere interesting and beautiful so you can gain some inspiration from nature? lol

I'd tell you what I tell myself: find your fight. I know it's so hard, but what are the options? If you don't like how you're feeling, and it's changed you into someone you don't identify with, then I feel like we have to do something different. Maybe that would be researching wellness supplements that you think could boost how you're feeling and starting a regimen of them. Maybe it would be scheduling a half-mile walk every day and sticking to the schedule no matter what.

Idk what would help or what you already do or don't do, but change up your behavior so you can change your mind.

I found this Ted Talk interesting. https://www.ted.com/talks/amy_cuddy_your_body_language_may_shape_who_you_are?language=en

According to the compassionate and smart sociologist Ms. Cuddy, all one has to do to increase testosterone (which we all have, male or female) to feel more powerful and decrease cortisol to reduce stress reaction is to raise your arms above your head and lift your chin up for two minutes.

I've been doing this randomly while walking around the past few days since I watched this. I feel crazy. lol I also feel like I have nothing to lose here. 💖

Yoda, I totally get what you said about not having much to say anymore. I've been suffering from depression/anxiety for over a year now. I think it all started with my foot problems, then getting covid seemed to exasperate it all.

My personality has changed. I've lost my spark. It occasionally peeks through but I really just haven't been myself for a while now.

Ali, I get what you said about Dr's and how they misdiagnose, prescribe something which may or may not be what the patient needs. Then the weaning off process, starting another med which may or not be what you need etc. It can be a vicious cycle and the patient suffers for it.

I still come on here and read posts but seldom post anymore. But I still pray for you all every night.

continued

Re anxiety - dd and dgd both have that. Talking things through helps as well as ADHD meds. Anxiety is a big thing with CFS/FM. I feel my anxiety is often "physically/neurologically" based. Talking things through does help there too and also taking things that lower brain inflammation and balance GABA/glutamate.

I had a session of anxiety a few weeks back, for no particular reason I could identify, so I tried 600 gm GABA as I know in CFS/FM sufferers the GABA/glutamate balance is off. By 1/2 to 1 hour my brain was back to normal. What a relief. That is now part of my "tool kit". I do use 100-200 mg GABA at night fairly often to help me settle down to sleep.

Well, my somewhat foggy brain is running out of steam. This hasn't been my best day.

Hope what I have written makes sense.

Share all you want, Ali, if doing so helps you. (((((((hugs))))))

I read it too Ali. I totally agree with your assessments. I hope none of us here would judge you for sharing anything.

I have experienced a few "spot diagnoses" which were so out of line. One the intern diagnosed an ulcerated hammer toe and sent me on my way. In fact it was an infected blister and by that evening I nad red streak up to my knee. Fortunately I knew where to get help and with a few antibiotic injections and a course of oral anti-bs I recovered. That's only one.

I think you are looking at the right things to figure your problems out. In our family genetics go a long way to explaining certain conditions.

As far as psychiatrists go - for the most part for me - pffft! At one point CFS/FM was thought to be "in your head". What a bunch of nonsense that turned out to be. As you say, they are taking a shot in the relative darkness. On the other hand dd sees a psychiatrist and that had greatly benefitted her. She asked for testing for ADHD, it was confirmed and she is on meds for it. Other family members have it, probably including me, but it has not been a big enough problem for me to pursue. She is also on a mix of antid's which work for her. It has taken years to sort all this out. She has gone back to him with her feedback and they have finally arrived at a cocktail that works well for her. Your first year guy wasn't prepared to go that route obviously. To me that is how psychiatry should work but often doesn't.

For me, I believe first and to get a thorough medical check up to identify any physical problems. Then I look for a good counsellor with a social work background. I have had much better experiences with them than with psychologists or psychiatrists. Even if our problems are psychologically or psychiatrically based, so to speak, we can use the support of a good counsellor to help us figure it all out. At least that has worked for me.

And we can't bypass the fact that even if we were born totally emotional, socially, spiritually and physically healthy, our dysfunctional families have had profound negative effects on us and we need work out the results of those effects as adults. I have made big progress in one particular area in the last 5 years. Counselling has helped me a lot with that.Ther's always room for growth.

Ali - if meds have limited your cognitive abilities, you are even more amazing than I thought you were. However, It does stand to reason that the problems/meds you describe yourself having would affect your cognitive abilities and certainly very much, affect your quality of life. And yet you excel at your studies! Oh my!!!

Ali - you are very qualified to speculate. You are living the conditions, You are an intelligent, educated woman - who is self aware. You know your family and yourself better than anyone.

"Am I missing something, or is this a terrible approach to treatment?" No!

For me the thing is that treatment has to be a cooperative effort with dr and patient -especially when the dr is a psychiatrist. (S)he doesn't know how you feel!!! You do!!!

You may well be misdiagnosed and mis-medicated. I am glad you are seeking a different route - maybe routes before you are satisfied.

I agree with everything you have written

Need - the same to you. I think everything you have written is so valid.

My boys ADHD affected their studies. They were called lazy etc. I paid for assessments and then marched on the schools and straightened some things out. At one point they were thought to be below average intelligence. Well, testing disproved that in spades. I could go on with stories...

I shudder to think what happens to those young people whose parents are not willing or able to advocate for them.

Running out of characters so I have to start a new post..

Ali,

I wish you well in your research.

People do attach stigmas because of ignorance. They like to say that kids are daydreaming or other things.

They can’t focus because they have ADHD, and as you say, their brain functions differently and requires meds.

People assume so many things about so many different situations. They don’t know that they don’t know.

Need, I sympathize with your daughter. I know that over the past year, there's been a shortage of ADHD meds.

There certainly shouldn't be any stigma. Treating the brain/nervous system is no different from any other medical condition. I'm supportive of anything that helps the individual have a better quality of life.

Society, in general, frames behaviors as something people do out of their own free will, so if there is antisocial behavior or lack of learning, then someone chooses to behave that way. They "didn't apply themselves" enough, or they didn't have good self-discipline. That type of assumption is always lacking a world of context, and sometimes it's just false due to varying underlying issues.

I want to see a neuropsychologist and sleep medicine specialist. I'm hoping I can gain new insight from specialized assessments that will help better define some of my long-term symptoms or rule things out.

Ali,

I think you hit the nail on the head by saying that these symptoms can be attributed to several different factors. This is why they can be difficult to diagnose.

I certainly understand why people who are experiencing symptoms want relief. In many cases the symptoms seem to overlap with others.

My youngest daughter is very intelligent but struggled with ADHD for a while before we figured it out.

I think about the kids long ago who had ADHD or dyslexia and no one knew what to do. Some learned how to cope with it and adapt, others suffered.

I know what you mean about the approach that is being taken to determine what the situation is.

I suppose a lot of it depends on if the doctor that was chosen is capable of diagnosing the symptoms correctly.

My daughter freaks out when there is a shortage on her ADHD meds at the pharmacy. One time she had to call four different pharmacies to find it.

I think there are many people who are struggling with issues and are afraid to ask for help.

There shouldn’t be any stigma attached to mental health issues. If meds are properly prescribed they are a godsend for people.

Ali, if you want a second opinion on your situation, you should look into it. If you feel like the diagnosis is correct and you are benefiting from the treatment, it’s confirmation that you are managing it well.

Hey Need, I second-guessed myself about posting my personal experiences and deleted that part of the post, but since you read it... And Thank You, because this is therapeutic for me to talk about, it's just complicated.

But the short answer is Yes. After several monthly sessions with a first-year psychiatrist, I was feeling frustrated with the lack of efficacy in my meds and felt this desperate need to communicate to them how much my anxiety was affecting and limiting my daily life. I needed help. I didn't think he was hearing me. I got flustered and started crying. He then pretty immediately declared I was textbook bipolar and rx'd mood stabilizers which I've taken for 4 years or so.

I would've accepted any medication at that time in my life, and mood stabilizers haven't been all bad, but they do numb my emotions and my brain's cognitive abilities some.

Here's what I think, based on a few decades of experience with psychs and being dx'd five different things... and them never continuing/concurring with the previous dx, just implementing a totally new one...

I think neurological conditions are much more inheritable than currently thought, and that at least some of what is dx'd as mental illness (i.e., a chemical imbalance in the brain) is more systemic neurology problems. I see evidence of this in my family on both sides. Different manifestations and varying degrees of things that might be called OCD, ASD, rumination in general, intermittent rage/explosive issues, episodic behavioral issues (which are associated with epilepsy and Tourette's, and probably many other neurological disorders but those happen to be the two I know about).

I am unqualified to speculate, but I'm going to do it anyway, based on my experience and observing my family tree and how different symptoms have manifested on both sides.

Interestingly, my two medications are anticonvulsants. That is a clue that what is called "mental illness" can be similar enough to neurological disorders that they are helped by the same medications. While there are only so many ways psychs/specialists can tinker with neurotransmitters/systems, the fine-tuned neurological dx is out of reach for now. Neuroscience may be the way forward.

I think a man or woman with my symptoms would be treated the same by a psychiatrist, but perhaps not a PCP. To me, this is part of the problem; if you go to a psych with mental health ("bad feelings") concerns, they're going to treat you according to their discipline. And since you need relief, you'll take the diagnosis and the medication and hope it helps. If it does, that's great. If it doesn't, then it's a world of gaslighting yourself into wondering if you feel what you really feel; docs gaslighting me (at times), saying that I don't feel what I feel.

In the absence of severe symptoms that require referral to other specialists, then the person is stuck taking whatever medication the psych guesses will help their symptoms based on the clustering/categorization of symptoms around group behaviors and group responses to medications.

It's not a good approach to treating individuals, for sure. There's no conclusive quantitative testing to ensure that a person fits the criteria for a DSM dx, or that they benefit from the medication. And these are powerful drugs that habituate the brain/body. Am I missing something, or is this a terrible approach to treatment?

I have far too many thoughts on this topic, but I'll leave off for now. :)

I hope I didn't ramble too much. lol xo

*Heart issues can cause fatigue/depression or anxiety symptoms. And if you go to a psych, they're going to say it's depression/anxiety, and rx SSRIs or anxiolytics because that's what their field does.

Psychiatric medicine really needs to discern better through improved diagnostic assessment and at least consider/rule out other causation instead of defaulting to mentalistic/circular reasoning. "You're anxious because you have an anxiety disorder." Pfft.

Ali,

Wow! On the spot diagnosis? I wonder how often this happens. Thanks for sharing your experience.

Just curious? Do you think this occurs more often with women than in men? Misdiagnosis?

I will tell you why I am asking. Your story reminds me of a situation that my friend had.

She has a heart condition that has been there since birth.

She went to a doctor who gave her a paper to read which listed a number of psychological symptoms, such as panic attacks, anxiety, etc. He then asked her to check off what was pertinent.

She said to him, “Are you showing me this list because you think that I am imagining my symptoms or that it is due to anxiety? I told you that something is physically wrong with me. My heart rhythms aren’t normal. If I were a man, you would be ordering tests for me.”

My friend left his office and made an appointment with another doctor who said that her dosage of her heart medication needed to be adjusted. That was why she was having her symptoms. It wasn’t anxiety. It wasn’t her imagination either.

Once her heart meds were adjusted she was fine. Had she stayed with her other doctor who knows what would have happened?

Yoda, that makes sense that you became more introverted. Antipsychotics block dopamine receptors, decreasing the pleasure and satisfaction you would otherwise get from interacting. (That's my layperson's explanation.) In time, I hope the effects wear off. And, there are chemical dopamine boosters (caffeine/stimulants) and behavioral boosters (exercise, games).

*I wrote then deleted several paragraphs of thoughts about misdiagnosis and mis-medication and why the practice of psychiatry is prone to it. I'll leave that discussion for another day, or never. lol I suspect I am currently mis-medicated based on an inaccurate mental illness diagnosis. Maybe sometime I'll talk more about that.

Yoda, I wish you healing.

Yoda,

I can’t imagine how you feel. I’m sure it’s devastating to be in this position.

Waiting for testing and results is unnerving. Plus, dealing with your wife’s health on top of everything is hard.

Please know that you can vent here anytime.

NeedHelp & Golden,

Thanks. This problem has brought me so low that my extroverted personality changed to introverted. I feel like I have very little if anything at all to say anymore.

It is humbling to see that something that I began 12 years ago in January is still an ongoing thread in which people are helping people in all sorts of dysfunctional situations! Ya'll have been helpful to me back then when I was trying to take care of my declining mom. Ya'll are helpful now as I face my challenges at almost 67. Thanks!

sharyn - thinking of you at this difficult time.

Yoda - hope things work out well for you

duck - hope the roller coaster ride is levelling out

ali - so sorry about your dad. Thankfully he is getting the care he needs and it's not your job to look after him any more. You are right about allergies. I am still developing them. I remember all the trouble you had with mold.

Glad I could give you a boost. My thoughts about Iceland were not just about the academic program, but also about the benefits of being in a different culture. Living and studying abroad was a very good and growing experience for me. I would recommend it to anyone.

Ali,

Very sorry to hear about your dad’s leukemia and COPD.

Ali, so sorry to hear about your dad.