Why does this generation of elders expect their children to give up their lives to provide for their every need and happiness?

Very good comment from WayToMisery : "The answer is educating people to prepare for their elderly years ."

I fully agree. I was recently discussing this topic with a friend. We decided that, my current situation is going to likely be difficult one way or another with no easy solution per se . It is what it is. I will do what I can to survive and look out for myself. I am learning fast.
The best thing I can learn and do is, to educate my son about what happens when parents age. To prepare myself for my later years. To make sure I've reasonably saved enough, and set up documents well ahead of time. To make sure the same situation between me and my dad does NOT repeat for my son...

Does anyone know how I can contact the moderators and have this headline changed? Many of you have pointed out, rightly, that this is a sweeping generalization, and unfair to our elders who made good decisions and do not make demands on others.

@way you really hit the nail on the head for SOME elders “Because the current elderly saw leaps and bounds in quality of life compared to previous generations . They are spoiled and they do not want their lives to change .”

My husband and I have a more expensive house than my parents. It’s no bigger than mom’s house but it was much more expensive anyway, due to the market. We are still paying a mortgage even though my husband is retired and I work less than full time since I have been helping mom.

My mother thinks we have it made. However we never lived on ONE, income. Both my husband and I have worked since we were young teens. My mom got her first part time job outside the home when she was 40 (she married at 20). She worked full time for maybe 7-8 years total. Yet she says she always had a job.

My husband and kids never took a 2 week vacation (growing up, my family did every summer). They had a backyard pool, and put a huge addition onto their house. I could go on.

My grandparents, both sets, lived in a 1200 sq/ft home with one bathroom and no garage, and never aspired to anything more. They saved their money. I remember my grandmother commenting on the thousands of dollars my mom would blow on Christmas every year.

Which reminds me. That’s what mom did for her parents; planned lavish holiday and birthday events that my working father shopped, cleaned and cooked for. She would always have them over for the day. But actual care, or even bringing them to the doctor ? No. Mom turned a blind eye when her mom clearly had dementia. I maintained grandma in her home, which I realize now was dangerous an inappropriate. I also had a toddler at the time.

You are so right, Way, mom stayed at home for 20 years and had a pretty darn nice life. Of course she doesn’t want anything to change. As I said in my very first post she also had a doting husband for 43 years, and then a BF for 15 years who practically worshipped her (he was old enough to be her father).

ITRR, you are also correct. At the heart of my misery is my inability to stop allowing her to pull my strings. I have hired a ton of help and set boundaries, which for me is a pretty big deal after being in the FOG most of my life. But for this homecare nightmare to really end, I will have to take her to court to be declared incompetent, so I can place her, and she will probably win.

Which leaves me the option of walking away. Despite everything, I won’t do that. I guess that’s why I’m on this forum every day looking for some answer that doesn’t exist.

I am not caregiving my parents, and am so glad I decided against taking that on!
Reading so many posts from those of you who are doing the caregiving for such long periods of time fills me with so much empathy and pity.

Alva once said to one of my posts that I had been "generationally trained", and that really stuck with me. I think that applies to all of us.

My parents were quite vocal through the years that they expected me to care for them. Even though they hated all the caregiving they had to do for their parents.

My divorced parents live separately - my dad lives with stepmom, and my mom lives alone.

Both my parents remained in the small town where we all lived - I got away from there when I went to college on a scholarship, and that's where my DH and I met. I never had to move back to where all the parents lived. I'm so fortunate that I live over 6 hours away in another state.

My dad had 2 parents who didn't save enough for their old age. His dad died of cancer and his mentally ill mom caused a lot of trouble for my dad. She spent money recklessly and at the end of the month often needed financial help. My dad had to mow her yard every summer and do home repairs. He was still working then and had his own place to take care of too. His mom would call him in the middle of the night wanting something. He said she drove him nuts. He finally placed her when her physical condition got worse. He said it was a relief when she finally passed.

Dad's grandparents all lived to their mid-late 80s. They were cared for by female daughters of those families, but his mom and dad were not involved in their own parents' care. They got off pretty easy and then my dad went through hard times with having to care for them, and he resented it.

My mom lived with her parents for many years. She was a little child-like in that she never lived on her own. Her dad was a sweet person; he didn't require much care before he passed. However, her mean mom lived to be 105. My mom used to call me and complain about her mom and I remember her saying she wished her mom would die so that she could have some peace.

My mom's parents never had to do any caregiving for their own parents. Ironic that my mean grandmother lived to be so old.

Despite both parents having such bad experiences, they said things to me through the years about how I should help them once they got older. This baffled me since they had such bad experiences with their own parents, and when I mentioned this to them they both had a lot to say about my "selfishness" and that "children owe their parents", and all the usual manipulative comments.

Last year my mom had the audacity to tell me to build a room for her in my home. I have refused since I wouldn't last a day living with her and my DH hates her. I will not sacrifice my marriage for her. My dad has dementia and stepmom recently wanted me to go over there and take care of him for over a month while she had surgery. I refused that request too. I have gotten a lot of criticism from them because I won't give in to their demands, and some of my relatives in that town have sent me some very mean texts and voice mails about my "terrible treatment" of my parents. That has been hurtful but I don't bother responding to such BS. Stepmom even sent an email saying I will be taken out of their wills. Whatever, lady, go for it.

They expect it because they have seen others in their families do it, then they felt like they "had" to do it in order to be well thought of by others in that little nothing town. And now that they are older they have become manipulative and entitled jerks. No thanks.

It's such a shame that people live so damn long these days. They aren't happy or comfortable and they want to make sure that nobody around them gets to be happy either. It's completely crazy.

Well done LauraL271 !

@ waytomisery and Anabanana

The grooming and conditioning out parents do to us is a form of abuse. However, when we become adults we decide how much power that grooming and conditioning is going to have over us.

At some point tolerating our parents' abuse and manipulation becomes a choice. Adults can choose to walk away and go. Children cannot and no one here is a child.

@Laura271

Good for you, sister. You dodged the bullet by refusing to do caregiving for your parents. I'm glad you learned from many people's experiences here on this forum.
It's an old tactic dangling the inheritance carrot in front of adult children as a means of controlling them. Good for you telling your step-mother where to step off.

As for your mean grandmother who lived to 105. You know what they say.
Only the good die youg. SMH...

Personally, I don’t think it’s a generational thing at all. I feel that it’s more about the personalities of the individuals involved.

My parents never took care of their parents. I didn’t know my dad’s parents. They died before I was born.

I knew my mom’s parents very well. I adored them. They were fiercely independent and didn’t require any care from my mom.

So, there was no frame of reference for me of my parents caring for their parents.

I raised my daughters to be independent. So, why would I rob them of their independence if I should need care later on? No way, will I ever expect them to care for me in my older years.

Burnt, only the good die young, hahaha. I said this same thing to an 85 year old lady that was giving me an earful about her BIL and how his actions caused the death of her 23 year old son decades before. Oops! I was young and in a very awkward situation, I thought I said something to provide some condolence. I knew by the look on her face I was wrong about that.

I think about that incident every time I hear this phrase. I never say it myself though. :-)

My 90 year old mother has heart and other health issues and can barely function. She’s unhappy, uncomfortable and can barely walk. She says she wants to stay alive even though she understands she old and sick. I live 3 hours from her. I have one brother and SIL who live locally and take care of her. She’s at her home during the week and at their house weekends. I don’t see her often and go down maybe once quarterly for a long weekend. I don’t want to assume more caregiving burden although she expects it. She never took care of her own parents! I chose to devote my time to my own adult kids and grandkids. I did help care for her for a few years back while I was still working; I’d go after work and make dinner etc., take off work and take her to endless doctor appointments, ER visits etc. I decided
i had enough and stopped. She conveniently forgets how I helped
her since my brother and SIL are now doing all the heavy lifting. Ive tried to keep an open dialogue with them but not much communication. My mother expects to be taken care of and says she doesn’t want to go to a “home.” She has a paid caregiver 20 hours per week, but she treats this woman terribly, and whines about how much she pays her and how dumb and low class she is (not shocking because this is my mother’s style but still disturbs me). I’ve heard rumblings from family members about my lack of interest but I don’t care. Admit it sometimes has been difficult to resist the urge to do my “share” but I’ve resisted so far. She holds the inheritance card also. I will not play that game with her. She also has free will to do as she pleases. She’s perfectly fine with being a burden and having a very low quality of life.

My in-laws and my grandparents were closer in age than my in-laws to my parents. (DH is not that much older than me, they just had children later in life - especially for that time frame, it was more unusual for a 35 year old to have a baby in the 60s than it is now)

My MIL NEVER had any expectations of anyone taking care of her. She was planning their move to ALF when she unexpectedly passed away.

My grandfather - who would be 100 now if he had lived - never had any expectation of anyone taking care of him. We didn't realize how much he took care of my grandmother though - or maybe spoiled is a better word.

My grandmother - 98 this year - is an interesting amalgamation of "I don't need help!", "Promise me you won't put me in a nursing home." and "I can take of myself." My mom has been taking care of my grandmother now for 3 years - in GM's home because she refused to come here. GM THINKS she is completely independent and doesn't need my mom. But she completely falls apart when mom leaves for the day. SHE thinks she is rescuing mom from sharing our home because she can't understand how well it works for us and how quiet it actually is lol. But she NEEDS care. And honestly I can't see my mom ever putting her in a SNF no matter how hard it gets - because she is an only child, parentified very young, and raised in a culture of guilt - so it's instilled in her.

I saved the best for last lol. My FIL. at almost 90, he weighed over 300 pounds and was mostly immobile. We kept him home for as long as we could. But there was a line that we couldn't cross if he couldn't get himself out of the bed and to the bathroom. My BIL and SIL moved in (of their own need) and became default caregivers. And that was more than anyone could ask for obvious reasons.

But unlike MIL - who he somehow didn't plan to move with if she went to ALF - he had 100% expectation that his children were going to take care of him. That was always the plan. He literally told my DH that he needed to leave me and our children and our home to come take care of him when it became too much for SIL. We weren't invited, only DH.

He ended up in a SNF because his care was beyond us (and of course DH leaving was just laughed off...but FIL was very serious. He never let DH stop paying for not doing his will. Insults like "man up" and "Grow a pair" were thrown out with regard to telling me he was going to go live with this dad and help him. DH said "Dad, I am 'manning up' and 'growing a pair' and telling YOU no! That's not happening!"

FIL demanded everything all the time and everyone was supposed to sacrifice everything to give it to him.

I think more than anything - it depends on the person - not necessarily the generation. I know plenty of people MY age (50s) that expect their kids to take care of them later in life, don't have any retirement or plans. I can't wrap my head around it.

Burnt writes: "@Fawnby
Are you a cultural expert on Native American nations and their tribal customs? If you are not then you really can't make such a statement like the comments you've made here because they are very offensive to Native Americans."

Burnt, I’m glad you brought this up. I’ve been a student of cultures for most of my life. I’ve traveled extensively to 37 countries and to as many states for work research and for pleasure, including once as a member of a prestigious cultural delegation and having all expenses of that weeks-long trip paid by the faraway country that invited me. My grandson earned a degree in anthropology and is a working anthropologist. I admire in one way or another all cultures that I’ve studied. Human beings have, out of necessity, devised various ways to survive. Senicide is one of them. Infanticide is another. It’s not disparaging to mention that a society abandoned their old people or their babies. This is history. It happened. It’s human. We are wired to assure that our group survives, for without the group, individuals will die and our species could cease to exist. In good times, when there are enough resources for all, senicide or infanticide isn’t likely to be practiced. We live in comparatively good times.

I have a friend who survived the Cultural Revolution in China. She was born in 1960, and she had five siblings. Food was scarce. They lived in a remote province. When she was born, her father carried her to the Peace Room and left her on top of a pile of bodies. The Peace Room was where the village disposed of their dying and dead prior to cremation. He regretted it later that day and went back to get her. She grew up knowing that her parents had initially thrown her away because they doubted their ability to feed another child. During Mao’s Cultural Revolution, 1966-1976, people in her village ate anything they could find. Songbirds, insects, plants. A person would come running into the village to tell them when old people in nearby villages were about to die. Her mother, carrying a large basket, would hurry there, and when she came back, they had meat. My friend doesn’t know - and I don’t know - if the old people were killed or if they died naturally. It could have been either.

As for my latter years, I’ve devoted many of them, as a family caregiver, to the survival of old people. Reminder: We have no idea who our anonymous posters are or what their accomplishments might be. Today I’ve revealed some of mine.
Informative article about senicide: “Growing Old With The Inuit.” https://nowheremag.com/2015/04/growing-old-with-the-inuit-3/

What Fawny wrote I have heard before. My DH is a History major and did a paper on American Indian tribes. I am sure he will agree with Fawny. With the trail of tears, the elderly were left behind. Many young people did not survive that trek so the elderly never would have. The survival of the fittest.

Fawnby, I have heard similar reported from oral tribal history from Australian Aboriginal people. Also of the ill taking themselves away, to allow the tribe to move on without them.

Yes I read that also. The security and well being of the collective group is more important than that of one person in ill health who cannot keep up. It’s not how the social system is set up in the developed world where we take care of the youngest and the oldest, but this practice makes sense in the context of a tribe’s survival in the wilderness.

@Fawnby and JoAnn

When I lived out west I had a relationship with a Lakota man. He was beautiful and may he rest in peace. I can assure you both that his grandparents who had serious care needs (Grandmother had dementia and mobility issues. Grandfather was in a wheelchair and had severe COPD) were not left out the plains to be eaten by wolves and vultures. His parents and relatives took care of them. He took care of them. Hired homecare took care of them too.

His family managed the care of these two better than any family I ever knew and I did this line of work for 25 years. So really, whatever either of you studied or may have heard from actual scholars really isn't the same as seeing and experiencing something for yourself. I saw and experienced this wonder firsthand and it was beautiful. No one had resentment towards them. No one was fighting about who had to do what and no one felt like a care slave. The grandparents did not behave like the entitled bullies that most of us had experience with.

So, whatever went on back in the Stone Age could probably be said about all humans living in groups.

@JoAnn

The Trail of Tears? Are you even serious right now? That was a planned genocide. It wasn't just the elderly being left behind. It was the kids and anyone else who couldn't keep up. I can't even believe what I'm seeing from this thread.

We’ve long been manipulated by the exploitation of extreme acts and fed false information to further divide us. Sensationalism sells.

We’re a predominantly white Christian continent (North America) but we whitewash our own history to justify our actions. It is so much easier to swallow than the truth.

I’m Canadian and our history of First Nations abuses is appalling. All the while I was taught in school (1970s) that we were saving the “savages”. My youngest two have been taught the revised curriculum. It is difficult to believe we once thought that way as a country.

Travel more, learn more, question more.

@Anabanana

Sorry my friend, I don't 'white wash' anything and I'll be passing on the 'white guilt' thank you very much.

I take responsibility for MY actions and deeds. Not for things that went down long before I was even born.

Ana,

It’s painful to think about what happened in the past in Canada and America regarding the abuse of Native Americans.

It’s absolutely disgusting what the Native Americans endured, both children and adults were horribly abused by ‘so called’ Christians.

Parents were lied to and told their children would be educated if they allowed them to attend the Catholic boarding school. Their children were forced to forget their heritage and had unspeakable crimes committed against them.

I am appalled that this went on in your country. Everyone should be made aware of what occurred. It’s extremely difficult to watch the excellent documentaries that have been shown on these devastating events.

I understand how you feel. Sadly, the abuse of children has never stopped. It’s rampant in our country too. It can destroy a person’s faith in organized religion.

Yes Anna , in America I was taught that we we were good to the native Americans, we were helping them, and the ones we killed where savages, I think though poor education a lot of people still feel that way.
I believed that to an embarrassing age, probably 40, when one of my kids said. Are we having kill the Indians day this year. (Thanks giving) it really turned on a light bulb for me.
Now I'm a huge history buff. I firmly believe the best way to prevent past mistakes is to learn about the past, care about the past. Unfortunately there are a lot of people that still believe the fantasy land are middle grade schools taught us. And they don't care about the past, which scares the dickins outta me. They live in such a ignorance

EOLD33,

I am curious as to what led you to become a death doula.

It must be a fascinating experience for you to do this as your calling.

Is this a field that is growing in popularity or is it more of a specialized area?

I am glad that it is a fulfilling line of work for you.

How do you get most of your clients?