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My father wants to add my sibling as an additional POA. He wants to avoid telling my brother who is the POA. Can he just add my sister without notifying him?
Jazzy24, welcome to the forum, and when you get a chance please fill out the Profile page as that will give us more information so we can better understand the situation. Such as what health issues does your Dad have? Is he unable to live on his own? Does Dad have a caregiver? Is Dad in his 50's or in his 80's?
Please note, your brother could try to place your Dad into Assisted Living but it's not that easy. Your Dad would need to "qualify" as to needing help with various every day routines, such as dressing, bathing, etc. If Dad doesn't need help with any of those things, then the senior living facility wouldn't not accept him. Dad could move into "Independent Living" part of a senior facility. My Dad did (he was in his 90's).
I believe the reason for the second POA is put in place only if first POA is unable to do it. Unless the box is checked for them to work together. Which I think is an impossible task for them to totally agree.
so - if this is correct - your father and you and other sibling disagree with your brother?. I'll assume your father is competent to make decisions still. So, why torture your poor sister with adding her as co-POA with your brother, so now she needs to argue and achieve agreement with him on each and every thing? That sounds like a disaster to just add her on along with him.
As others are suggesting, if your father truly disagrees with your brother's approach, he should be dropping him off and have a completely different POA then. If I am summarizing things correctly....
If your father feels that the POA is not acting in his best interests or according to his wishes he needs to remove him as POA & assign a new one. Best to get an elder lawyer for this
"my father wants to add my sibling as the co-poa and co executor and then tell our father. He knows my brother wont agree. Our brother wants to put him in assisted living and has states several times that he has the power to do so. our father is no where near needing to be in assisted living. my sibling and i live close by and can care for both of our parents and have agreed to move in if needed. Our brother is controlling and doesnt want us to move in. in order to not upset our father with the un needed drama if our brother knew before he made her co poa."
Your Father should do what he wants. FYI a PoA cannot legally put someone in a facility if that person has all their mind.
You don't "add a POA"; this would cause an all out war over guardianship in all likelihood. You withdraw POA from the son and create a new POA with daughter named. The current POA MUST be told. He cannot continue to act as POA when someone else has been appointed. He will be required to turn over all records he has kept as POA.
It is crucial that the father tells his son that he is removing him as POA and gives him written notification, and that the father request that his name be removed from accounts and bills and etc so that sister, the new POA can be put on.
If help is required, if abuse is suspected, the APS should be drawn in to mediate this with all involved. This is all done in an attorney's office. This isn't done with some online form. Take care that this is correctly done; see an attorney.
as often is the case, a great answer from Alva! and as she outlines - these scenarios as you already know can get ugly real fast, and that is where a good attorney with expertise is key to have to mediate things....
he should probably ask a lawyer about this. There can be some nuance depending how he wants it set up . Is the goal to have a main POA and then a backup POA in case the first cannot serve? or is the goal to be that they are "co-POAs"? for mine, myself and sibling are listed as "Co-POAs acting together". The way the details are worded, it means that for major decisions, myself and my brother have to agree, and have to co-sign the document". so by definition, we have to each know that we are both co-POAs and cooperate. ! Also, in our case we had to sign as accepting POA in front of the notary and we each saw the whole document.
my father wants to add my sibling as the co-poa and co executor and then tell our father. He knows my brother wont agree. Our brother wants to put him in assisted living and has states several times that he has the power to do so. our father is no where near needing to be in assisted living. my sibling and i live close by and can care for both of our parents and have agreed to move in if needed. Our brother is controlling and doesnt want us to move in. in order to not upset our father with the un needed drama if our brother knew before he made her co poa.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Please note, your brother could try to place your Dad into Assisted Living but it's not that easy. Your Dad would need to "qualify" as to needing help with various every day routines, such as dressing, bathing, etc. If Dad doesn't need help with any of those things, then the senior living facility wouldn't not accept him. Dad could move into "Independent Living" part of a senior facility. My Dad did (he was in his 90's).
As others are suggesting, if your father truly disagrees with your brother's approach, he should be dropping him off and have a completely different POA then.
If I am summarizing things correctly....
"my father wants to add my sibling as the co-poa and co executor and then tell our father. He knows my brother wont agree. Our brother wants to put him in assisted living and has states several times that he has the power to do so. our father is no where near needing to be in assisted living. my sibling and i live close by and can care for both of our parents and have agreed to move in if needed. Our brother is controlling and doesnt want us to move in. in order to not upset our father with the un needed drama if our brother knew before he made her co poa."
Your Father should do what he wants. FYI a PoA cannot legally put someone in a facility if that person has all their mind.
The current POA MUST be told.
He cannot continue to act as POA when someone else has been appointed.
He will be required to turn over all records he has kept as POA.
It is crucial that the father tells his son that he is removing him as POA and gives him written notification, and that the father request that his name be removed from accounts and bills and etc so that sister, the new POA can be put on.
If help is required, if abuse is suspected, the APS should be drawn in to mediate this with all involved. This is all done in an attorney's office. This isn't done with some online form. Take care that this is correctly done; see an attorney.
and as she outlines - these scenarios as you already know can get ugly real fast, and that is where a good attorney with expertise is key to have to mediate things....
or is the goal to be that they are "co-POAs"? for mine, myself and sibling are listed as "Co-POAs acting together". The way the details are worded, it means that for major decisions, myself and my brother have to agree, and have to co-sign the document". so by definition, we have to each know that we are both co-POAs and cooperate. !
Also, in our case we had to sign as accepting POA in front of the notary and we each saw the whole document.