Are you sure you want to exit? Your progress will be lost.
Who are you caring for?
Which best describes their mobility?
How well are they maintaining their hygiene?
How are they managing their medications?
Does their living environment pose any safety concerns?
Fall risks, spoiled food, or other threats to wellbeing
Are they experiencing any memory loss?
Which best describes your loved one's social life?
Acknowledgment of Disclosures and Authorization
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid. We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour. APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment. You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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Mostly Independent
Your loved one may not require home care or assisted living services at this time. However, continue to monitor their condition for changes and consider occasional in-home care services for help as needed.
Remember, this assessment is not a substitute for professional advice.
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If your loved one is indeed mentally competent, they can make decisions (even bad ones) for themselves. However they can’t make decisions for you about how you have to support them. One answer may be to stop propping up the situation. The challenge is to keep it reasonably safe. Tell the neighbours what you are doing and why, phone three times a day to check for falls, move yourselves out of your house so the taxi can’t find you. Or just do the minimum and live with ‘less than perfect’!
This is what we are living through also. He shouldn’t be at home. The nursing home knows, his doctor knows, and we know it. But he is a stubborn old man. So, everyone’s hands are tied. He will remain at home, with us bringing his meals, doing his laundry, visiting once a day, etc. - until something happens to him at home that puts him back in the nursing home for good. It will happen, we expect it everyday, and we are amazed he has made it this long. He has Parkinson’s, with the early dementia that goes with it. He has to fail on his own terms.
Happened with my Dad. He just kept going back to his apartment until he was hospitalized 4 times in 6 weeks-with skilked nursing rehab.
We had to let him fail on his own. After a few years, he was judged in a hospital by psych to not have capacity to manage himself. Adult protective services had been called three times, but kept saying it was his right to make poor choices. He took taxis home, he refused all home health or anyone to clean his apartment. His neighbors and friends kept asking us why we didn’t do something. We could not until he lost his legal right to make poor choices. APS finally said he was vulnerable because of self-abuse, and that did affect the psych evaluation. The best thing we had was a POA that he signed last year when he was judged to be competent. That did not take away his right to make his own decisions until he was no longer competent. Please do not get your legal advice from anyone other than an elder care law attorney. Every state is different and every situation is different.
In there a POA or guardian involved? If so, they should be contacted. Its their decision. A person found to be incompetent cannot sign legal papers. I would think a facility would need to make sure they were releasing this person to a safe place with someone to care for them.
You need ‘proof’ that your loved one is not mentally competent. This is very hard when the person has ‘show timers’ ie puts on an act for the short time of the doctor’s appointment, and the doctor never sees the living conditions. Particularly hard if you have no right to discuss the medical condition with the doctor, and the doctor sticks to all the ‘privacy’ rules. People on this site have recommended sending a letter to the doctor before the appointment (they are still allowed to read them!) with details of what is troubling you. You can suggest questions to ask (ie what do you eat every day). The best results come from also providing videos of the living conditions (eg what’s actually in the fridge), and also of incidents involving the person. For the latter, you may need to install a monitor system – if you ask, people here can make suggestions of what and how and the legalities. The contrast between the ‘stories’ and reality can provide the basis for a ‘not mentally competent’ verdict. If the doctor is unwilling to admit that they have been wrong all along, you may need another doctor. Before you do it, make sure that everything that needs to be signed before the verdict is all in order. The verdict will invalidate subsequent wills, POAs and all the other forms.
If you ask these specific questions, you can get a lot of help on this site.
CWillie is spot on as to ability to leave. But there could be fallout later on by doing this. If they are in skilled nursing care aka a NH, there will be a series of codes associated with their care. These are ICD -10 codes & standard for how diagnosis & billing is done. If they leave and it’s recorded in their medical chart that they exited AMA / against medical advice, what could happen is IF they get hospitalized or seek medical care for anything with the same ICD codes that they were getting care for, that their insurer will not pay for any care associated with the same ICD codes for a period of time.
To avoid this they need to get discharged from the skilled care place and get a discharge report - or an aftercare document. It’ll have what their medications are & their schedule and if there’s PT or OT to continue or when a followup visit with their MD scheduled for or should be schedule by. Discharge report needs to be signed by resident or MPOA & facility keeps a copy. You need to keep your copy.
if you take them out, PLEASE be sure to get their medications. RXs for NH usually get ordered in 90-120 day supplies. A lot of these come in blister packs & are tagged with resident name on a hanger held in the locked medication closet at the nurses station. You NEED to get these. MediCARE, MedicAID or other insurance will not pay for duplicate meds. So it will be totally private pay out of pocket to get their meds & could be frightfully expensive plus you will need a new script to get any meds.....
Hospitals and nursing homes are not prisons, if someone is mentally competent they are free to leave if they choose. If that person has the resources and wherewithal to arrange for a transportation and they have a home to go to there isn't much anyone can do to prevent their departure.
I think the question is - are they mentally competent? Early dementia is very difficult and many do not accept at all. Over medication at home, increasing falls. Living this right now.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
We had to let him fail on his own. After a few years, he was judged in a hospital by psych to not have capacity to manage himself. Adult protective services had been called three times, but kept saying it was his right to make poor choices.
He took taxis home, he refused all home health or anyone to clean his apartment. His neighbors and friends kept asking us why we didn’t do something. We could not until he lost his legal right to make poor choices. APS finally said he was vulnerable because of self-abuse, and that did affect the psych evaluation.
The best thing we had was a POA that he signed last year when he was judged to be competent. That did not take away his right to make his own decisions until he was no longer competent.
Please do not get your legal advice from anyone other than an elder care law attorney. Every state is different and every situation is different.
If you ask these specific questions, you can get a lot of help on this site.
But there could be fallout later on by doing this. If they are in skilled nursing care aka a NH, there will be a series of codes associated with their care. These are ICD -10 codes & standard for how diagnosis & billing is done. If they leave and it’s recorded in their medical chart that they exited AMA / against medical advice, what could happen is IF they get hospitalized or seek medical care for anything with the same ICD codes that they were getting care for, that their insurer will not pay for any care associated with the same ICD codes for a period of time.
To avoid this they need to get discharged from the skilled care place and get a discharge report - or an aftercare document. It’ll have what their medications are & their schedule and if there’s PT or OT to continue or when a followup visit with their MD scheduled for or should be schedule by. Discharge report needs to be signed by resident or MPOA & facility keeps a copy. You need to keep your copy.
if you take them out, PLEASE be sure to get their medications.
RXs for NH usually get ordered in 90-120 day supplies. A lot of these come in blister packs & are tagged with resident name on a hanger held in the locked medication closet at the nurses station. You NEED to get these. MediCARE, MedicAID or other insurance will not pay for duplicate meds. So it will be totally private pay out of pocket to get their meds & could be frightfully expensive plus you will need a new script to get any meds.....