I'm financially burdened and feel guilty for taking Mum's money.

There is something being overlooked here in a very blatant way and while the feedback on the morality of using mom's funds for family needs has a place...I haven't seen anyone respond to your statements about depression and feeling suicidal.

I HOPE YOU HEAR THIS LOUDLY AND CLEARLY...THERE IS NO DEED THAT YOU HAVE DONE THAT MAKES YOU A BAD PERSON. YOU HAVE TAKEN ON A ROLE THAT NO ONE ELSE HAS HAD THE COURAGE TO TAKE UP AND YOU SHOULD BE COMMENDED FOR THAT FIRST AND FOREMOST.

Depression can be a hellish thing to have on your back. It knows your weak points and isn't afraid to ride them out in your mind. The best thing you can do for your mom, your family and yourself is to talk to your doctor about this depression and let them guide you to some counseling to help you cope with the burdens and stresses that come with being a caregiver.

As for the rest, it doesn't sound like you are living the high life off your mom's finances and beating yourself up over something that isn't insurmountable by any means is not worth the hurt. You are a good and caring person to take on this role and I hope you will reach out for some help on the depression and suicidal thoughts.

Finally, always remember you have friends in many places...some known, some new...and that there will be good thoughts put out there to help you.

Peace!

Rainmom: I agree totally. Lots of people have asked for a "paycheck" of sorts to take care of their elderly parents. Hello??!! My mother's monthly income was only $1,223 a month. I wouldn't dare touch a penny of it. Something is majorly amiss here.

I agree, a line has been crossed, and the guilt that goes with it is extreme also. My Mom lived with my husband and I for 7 years after her last husband passed. We wrongly "assumed" that all would be good. My hubs is disabled and of SS and SSI, and I worked caring for him, plus in school full time. (I'm 63 and was in school when I was 55). My Mom would offer money to help, knowing that we were struggling, then because of dementia, would forget and we stole "all of her money". The progression just got worse. She signed a agreement early on that she would contribute x amount to the household to help. Then "the family" got in the midst of everything, while my Mom just got worse. By a doctors request, that she needed to be in assisted living, we found a perfect one within her budget, but the family held me totally responsible for her going into a nice home and that I took every penny she had. (She would buy with her credit cards for other family on the phone). I had Social Workers and police taking my computer with her accounts recorded, and they said there was nothing illegal or out of line, because of the agreement. But the family (Mom's sister in laws and cousins-who never took care of her at all, just believed her in her demented state of mind). Mom recently passed, I am relieved and feel free, but I have no family, due to the rantings of a poor, sad mind, still. Be careful and cover yourself. Pay it back or at least make an attempt. Draw up a note, with the total you took, tell her and move on.

Okay, so I've been thinking about this post and someone's got to help me out cause I'm confused.

When is it okay - what set of circumstances makes it okay to steal from your elderly parent?

Oops - sorry. When is it okay to "dip" or "take without permission" from your parents money? There - that's so much better. "Steal" is such an ugly word, isn't it?

Is it being depressed? Having a no help sibling? Being financially in need? Being an unpaid caregiver? Maybe it's feeling bad about it after?

Cause I never got that memo. I'm pretty sure the thousands of depressed, financially strapped, unpaid caregivers in this country alone - they didn't either.

Tideoflife, have you been treated for your severe depression? I am assuming that you have sought help for it and have been given a diagnosis, and that was why you were unable to work. Then the timing was really off when, just as you are ready to return to work, your mother took sick and you had to stay home to look after her three days a week. I'm sure that must have been a setback for your mental health, especially when months turned into years; six years is a long time. What type of work did you do prior to your depression?

The situation seems to have set off a chain of events based on a change in financial resources, including the need for your partner to give up his job, in turn, to look after the children, and having to deal with his own health problems.

Did your partner have a slip disc at the time he gave up his job? Is it possible he can find a part time job that does not require good mobility? Is it possible you could find a work-from-home job?

Distance and transportation seem to be a key issue. Transportation is certainly costly. Your mother's fragile emotional state was no doubt heart wrenching for you (crying and wondering if she will need to get a different caregiver), and you were trying to hold the fort even though you were struggling yourself.

It appears at some point along the way your partner became part of the problem rather than the solution in that he has also become another dependent on top of your children and your mother. Without minimizing the effect of his disability, is he motivated to support you and become as financially independent as he is able?

You are also in the early stages of the grieving process, after months of watching your brother die of cancer and attempting to finance his treatment, which is put on hold by your mother's cognitive decline and healthcare needs.

So prolonged poverty, unemployment and illness has taken a toll your ability to be financially independent and I can see how one would be tempted to avail of any resources at their disposal even though it was not your own, i.e. your mother's savings.

Ironically, in your attempt to be all things to all people, the desperation led you to an act that is morally untenable to you and has caused you an enormous amount of guilt. I would imagine the biggest expanse would be expensive anti-cancer drugs that your brother could not afford, combined with everyday living expenses. The guilt is no doubt amplified by the severe depression, which is probably distorting your reality and causing you to feel hopeless and suicidal. Your suicidal thoughts and feelings are the first thing that needs attention. It appears that the depression, coupled with grief, is making you feel overwhelmed and you need help to deal with it. This is nothing to be ashamed of. In fact, it takes a lot of courage to recognize a problem and get help for it.

Something has to give. What is the one thing or condition in your life that you must have to make you want to live again? Your children? Financial stability? Employment? A better relationship?

A long road ahead for you, but this could be a catalyst for some positive, life giving changes for you.

JessieBelle: Yes, my intent was to go along with what you had said. The math is all minuses and if there's nothing to "add," well, zero equates to zero or worse yet-in the red. Perhaps the OP has left the bldg because of embarrassment.

That was what I wondered, Llamalover. If no money is coming in, then borrowing money wouldn't work, either. How would the money be paid back? The only way out of this situation is to get some source of income either from a job or disability.

I think the OP has left the building, so we're just talking among ourselves now.

How can this person put the money back into mom's account of neither she nor her partner is employed?

Agree with DOA above. It is stealing pure and simple. You don't steal from your parents. If you are seeking absolution, confess to your mother and deal with the consequences. You are looking for anonymous internet posters to validate your wrongdoing. Make restitution and come clean.
I would never steal from my mother, elderly or not. I had a cousin who stole from his mother, my aunt, when she easily would have given him anything he asked for and she did. Never had much respect for that cousin- he ended up overdosing on heroin and that broke her heart, but she never denied him.
Woman (or man) Up and do the right thing. You may regret it the rest of your life and that's a horrible thing to have on your conscience. How will you live with yourself?

Hold up here!!! This is way too much on the table. Logic dicates that situation has way too much chaos in it than just mum's!!! You aren't married. He can't work. You can't work. Two of you and kids going without are not dependant on your mum. No car. What is really going on??? It is stealing plain and simple. I was the only caregiver to my late husband for a decade and a half. I put money in the bank and cared for him and he had 3 dementias and Parkenson's. I have a spinal fusion and ended up working myself to death caring for my husband. I ended up 83 lbs. Had a stroke. Kidneys starting failing and had an ulcer. Late hubby's cousin who would never help except to critize. Picked him. Took him to her house. Had him bedridden and on ativan and morphine and had bone spurs removed from his feet. Remember I said he was bedridden. She took his POA sold our house. Took all of our money. When I changed my bank account for my pension she tried to take it. Would not me see my husband and I found out about his death via internet. She had her bookkeeper notarize his will which reads like science fiction leaving her his pensions, social security benefits, personal and real property. She informed the funeral home he was divorced. We weren't. She has piece mailed this will to my attorney and the courts need the original to file. She didn't pay property taxes on a piece of property he owned for 4 years and had the tax bill sent to her home. I had talked to the Tax Commissioner's Office and they called me when the property came up for tax sale which I paid in full. Then she calls up telling me she wants me to split my widow's benefits with her. Told her call my attorney. Want to know where she is now??? I have been threw a lot but I never took any of my disabled parent's money but I had a brother who lived off of them and with them and in their house when both were in the nursing home. I am now pursuing my certification as a Life Coach for Caregivers because WE need it. You aren't worried about your mum. You are worried about being caught and I suspect someone is on to you. You are rationalizing your theft on problems that you created for yourself and family and there are just too too many red herrings on this equation of yours. I have seen some things. You aren't overwhelmed. The one most important factor you left completely out...what is you and your partner's drug of choice??? Tell the truth and shame the devil!!! Fess up to what you have done. Seek addiction treatment. And show up to answer for what you have done. You are going to miss a whole lot more like 20 years more for Elderly Finiancial Fraud and Abuse. Mum's life. Mum's money. You owe her. Not the other way around. Sounds like your sister knows the real deal and is staying out of it. I don't blame her!!! Stealing is never right particularly from your elderly disabled mother. There was a right way to do this. You chose not to pursue the correct path of action or was blocked from it for what I suspect were valid reasons. Who lives off of their dying parents??? Mum is not the problem. This is preying on the weak and helpless. And there are a number of agencies that could and would help you but they are not involved. You are not the victim. You are the predator.

In Texas I believe you can actually be paid for taking care of a parent. Please research this I'm not sure what web site you go to but just type it in on the computer. I know several people that have had to quit work to take care of there parents and they are compensated from the government I believe.

I understand what you're going through but it's okay you don't have to feel guilty. Your mother would have to pay someone or some nursing home would take all her money and only give her a portion of it, if any. As long as you're taking care of her needs first I don't see a problem. If you are just spending her money and doing nothing for her then you're stealing. Sometimes we all run short and need help, would she help you if she wasn't in need of care? Just be honest with her and move forward. I am sure she will understand. When we take on the responsibility of caring for our parents we take on a lot. Life continues and bills must be paid you need help but you need a plan too. What is your long term goal because with the problem you've stated your friend seems as though he's not able to do much. So what are you going do if something happens to mom? Somebody needs to do something more than just depend on her money. Work part-time or apply for some kind of help with the state.
Be encouraged you are not alone, lots of us understand

This is all good advice, tideoflife, and I hope that you will follow it. I am continually struck by those who ask "why aren't your siblings helping?" when the research shows that this is the most common situation. It's almost always ONE child who provides the vast majority of the care and helps financially. In my family, it's me. Asking why aren't your siblings helping is not very helpful feedback. Some people are better human beings than are others. Teri

If you believe you can't tell your mom because you would then be outcast, sounds like you've answered your own question. Have an adult conversation and make arrangement to be paid for the 3 days you're helping her and to pay her back from the money you took from her without her permission.

I think you need to have a meeting with siblings. Tell them that taking care of Mom is a financial burden for you and because of this you have taken money out of her acct. Why did u feel responsible for your brothers bills? Maybe u cannot say NO. You need to work. Your partner needs to file for whatever disability ur country offers. You need to make siblings aware of this and tell them other accommodations will need to be done. Stick up for yourself.

If your mom is forgetful, that's a sure sign of dementia or Alzheimer's and your mom is not able to consent to giving you money. I don't know if she's trying to give you money and sometimes you've accepted it, or you've had to borrow from her account, I don't know. It takes money to actually care for another person because you need to provide for them. You can't do this on your own money and yes, you should be receiving pay from her money because her money should be spent on her. The care you're giving her should never ever come out of your own pay if you're financially struggling to stay afloat. I wouldn't feel guilty about using her money for her care and not your benefit.

Think of this:

If the nursing home was doing this for you, I guarantee they would get her whole check, so why don't you somehow financially benefit but use that money for her? Just get money from her account and use her money for what she needs and save your own money to use on your needs. 

 now, you mentioned you can't work. Why not? You're working taking care of your mom so you must be able bodied enough to work if you're doing all of this for your mom. If neither you or your significant other are working, then I have the same exact question as to how the bills are getting paid, and you should not be living off your mom. This is very wrong and not fair to her if no other income is coming in and you have nowhere else to turn but her money to survive. This is not right when she needs that money to care for herself and her own needs, and yes you should feel very guilty if neither you or your significant other are working and no one else has an income but your mom. In light of the fact you mentioned your mom is forgetful as you say, this is a sure sign of dementia or Alzheimer's. If this happens to be the case, you are taking advantage of the  situation if you happen to be living off of your mom's income, and if this happens to be the case, all I have to say is what a shame. 

I also realize that if you're able bodied enough to take care of your mom full-time, then you're able bodied enough to at least have a part-time job and pull an income and contribute to the household. If you applied for Social Security, you would most likely have to be medically examined by doctors, and chances are very high you might not even get I accepted the first time.  in fact, I have a friend right now who has been without income and living off his mom for years until she went into a nursing home. He badly needs SSI and he can't even get that and he has been to multiple doctors when he applied. He stuck with either a living homeless or living with his sister and living off of her. He has an appointment this month to speak with Social Security and he's due to come in to town to use my phone and do that. I only hope since he lives way out in the country now that he can get a ride into town to use a phone, and get the income he needs because he's needed it for years and can't get it. I seriously doubt your situation will be any easier at least the first time because you may have to keep reapplying until your except or you get a lawyer who works on contingency. 

My question to you: 

What would you do if your mom suddenly died and her income had stopped, then what?  what if she worsened to the point she had to go to a nursing home like my friends mom eventually did and the nursing home gets her whole check? Then what? Yes you guessed it, you would be stuck and screwed! What you need to do now is beat the streets and find at least a part-time job because you are able bodied enough to work if you can take care of your mom full-time. You can earn some kind of income and use that income replace any money you borrowed from your mom. There are situations where neither party is working and you have an elderly person in your home who happens to have income, big red flag! This happens more often than we think and then the elderly person either goes broke, dies or lands in a nursing home. There are so many situations out there were people who have no income are living off our elders and it's not right. I'm so glad Trump is in office as of 2017  and I hope he does something to stop people from living off our elders when they need that money to help themselves get the care they need and to provide for their own needs out of their money. It's just not right if other people are living off their money and grabbing their assets in exchange for care. Oh yes, I didn't mention that so many people are also being cut off welfare, Medicaid and other federal benefits in order to lower the national debt here in the US. Cutting people off will get rid of illegal immigrants and other foreigners who should not be here in the first place and they happen to be only one reason why our country is going broke. Trump is trying to get people off the couch, out the door and into the workforce, good for him! It's about time we got a president who is now taking steps to quickly straighten out our country and stop the ongoing problems that are draining our economy dry.

You have a lot of issues: depression, death in the family, illness, and so forth. You need to separate them from your relationship with your mom.

I have two questions: would your mother give you the money if she knew you were in trouble? Are you not telling her because you don't want her to know how bad things are with you?

And secondly, how much money are we talking about, in relation to your income? Is it an amount of money that you could repay over the course of two or three years? And how badly does she need it? If she were to have serious medical needs, would you help her out by borrowing the same amount of money you've taken?

Families exist to care for each other. From your description, it isn't like you are cleaning your mother out and abandoning her. Clearly, you care for her, and it shows that you care about her when you are concerned about taking money from her without her knowledge. It may be that if the care you've given to her were to be calculated, there would be no doubt in anybody's mind that you have deserved whatever it was that you took. It's hard to know based on what you say, but you have been handling her money as well as doing many things for her, and so it seems like the best thing to do is simply to stop taking money from her. If you stop, then you can begin to deal with whether or not you have any obligation to repay her. Perhaps the time will come when you can earn or borrow money to help her out when she needs it.

But you really need to stop taking money from her. You MUST. If you cannot talk to family members about it, then just leave her money alone. Clearly, you will not be leaving HER alone, and that is the important thing.

I don't think the OP is coming back. (I also think she sounds English, by the way, though obviously I don't know).

When someone feels terrible about something she has done wrong, we should be gentle. But being gentle can't include telling her it wasn't wrong when it plain was. This lady stole her mother's money. There were all kinds of reasons for it, some good, some not really relevant; but the fact remains - she "dipped into her mother's savings." She took money from her mother without her mother's permission, and now she is both ashamed and afraid of being found out.

It's theft. It's wrong. It doesn't make her evil; but if she wants to feel better she'll have to put it right.

I wouldn't feel guilty. You are giving up your time and ability to work FT.
I gave up my PT job to care for my mom and took Social Security early to give my time to her. I look at it that she would have to pay someone else much more to do what you do.

In short I have cared for BOTH of my parents for 5 yrs and have borrowed money because of hard times also(husband lost job for a bit) but My father knew this and told me to take whatever I needed I do yet keep a mental note of what I borrowed and when bills had to be paid I used some of my money to cover certain things and you are all correct now they are BOTH in a home and the state wants EVERYTHING so while I still have control of account I am using for my self and when cost come up they need while in hospital I will be paying out of pocket for them

Do try to stop beating yourself up over this (as stated above). Caregiving is hard work and I'm doing it in exchange for rent with utilities (I moved in with Mom) and she helped me set up her accounts, so I have access to pay. There's no set amount. Just be wise, careful and provide for her and myself as we ride this part of life together. Mom balks at how much I spend sometimes, but she's the one choosing to live on Starbucks frappucinos. Those aren't cheap and she'll die sooner because of that habit (easily $250/mo on just those "cute little bottles" she likes).
You deserve to be paid. How you work out the family dynamics of accepting that is simple: offer them the job with no pay. Write down stuff you bought and did. Cumbersome as heck, takes time away from Mom while you start writing it down. But you'll get used to it. You have zero reason to feel ashamed or worse. Get some therapy for yourself AND have some fun on your days off! I do caregiving out of the home, and it's a huge sacrifice for Mom to have me gone each week for a day or two - only to earn $200/month. But it helps me need less financial help from Mom's pension. She was lucid and fine when we made these agreements and had her Will updated to reflect the same. She was a rotten mother for my childhood, but we've bonded and are grown women cohabitating to keep her safe and I had to divorce my husband of 17 years to move in, so I gave up everything I had, and Mom knows that. I worked hard with her during the more lucid days to make these plans. It wasn't fun for us, and we fought a few times, but now we conduct business as usual and Mom has all she wants/needs.
Be good to YOURSELF! Your health needs attention, too!
I get wrecked with exhaustion and walks with friends helps, lunch or a picnic helps, reading a book on how to save your sanity will help, too. There are a bunch of them in my library for borrowing that I enjoy!
Attend some caregiver seminars (for us, not our parents) and get some coping tools to avoid losing yourself in this.
Keep good records and to heck with what the family thinks. They've been very unhelpful so far, expect more of the same as your Mum gets worse. You sound like a lovely woman who needs validation and a hug. Here you go. It's ok to help Mom using Mom's money!
HUG HUG HUG

Your post sounds like you are so stressed, tired, burned out. I'm sorry that you have all these burdens on you at the moment. Sounds like you are aware that taking Moms money was not the right thing to do but you are left with few options.

Just wanted to say .. please keep reaching out.. call a suicide help line as others have suggested. You can overcome this... it is not the end of the world.

(((hugs)))

In NYS there is a program called CDPAP (Consumer Directed Personal Assistance Program) that enables family members to get paid from the state while they are caring for their parents. The caregiver is not required to be certified home health aide. However the person receiving the care has to be Medicaid eligible. Find out if your state has a similar program. If it does this will solve your financial issues and enable you to continue to care for your mother.

Ok jessiebelle I'm sure u clearly read this woman is suicidal over her guilt shame on you for chastising her. Now I'm wondering why mom had to pay for Bros care was he metally challenged and lived with mom? What's the deal there? Idk but "gram" as we call her pays only her car pmt and health and life insurance ( my hubby and our 2 kids all live together in her home,safest place for gram btw) and we pay ALL other bills I cluding her property taxes so every few months she pays electric mainly because she's half the reason it's 300 (leaving lights and old a** baseboard heaters on ALL DAY) anyway I do not get compensated for her care I'm the only one doing it also and mabe just sitting her down and talking to her about it whether she remembers tomorrow is niether here nor there make an agreement to pay her back or better yet if she plans on leaving you and your siblings a few dollars have her take it out of tht don't beat yourself up good ppl screw up and it's about how or if you try to rectify the "wrongdoing". If your truly suicidal call someone NOWNOWNOW you are of absolutely no use to your mother dead and your children would be devastated stop beating yourself up and talk to someone a helpline your pastor a close friend but for the love.of God it's not worth it!!!

" Why should my life be on hold while my brothers do nothing? Why would I let her monthly checks build up and in the end my brothers make money off of me while I'm falling apart being the only caregiver!? " Exactly. There are too many examples of one sibling doing all the work while the others do nothing.

OP, I like jeannegibbs' suggestion to have a talk with your mother and ask her to consider the money you took to be payment for your caregiving. And I'm sure she would have wanted that money for your brother to be given to him? Ask her.

JessieBelle is absolutely correct. A line has been crossed here. Your mother should most certainly be paying for your help. But the money you accept should be with her consent, not taken behind her back. I suggest you remedy that for the help you give her going forward. Put the money you took back into her account, little by little but consistently. Or, and I think this would be better, have a heart-to-heart talk with your mother and see if she would consider the money you took as payment for the services you performed then.

Whoa! We're crossing a line here. It is not okay to go into our parents' accounts without their permission. An agreement should be reached first and then the money taken. That is the way it works legally. If there is a caregiver agreement, it needs to be in writing and subject to tax laws, or it can be given as a gift with the permission of the parent. If someone is POA, they need to act under the rules of the POA.

There are many stories about children taking all their parents' money. Most caregivers are not doing that, but there are laws in place to try to prevent it from happening. It is better that a caregiver remain on the right side of the law. There are several ways to do that. Taking money without permission or authority is not one of the legal ways and could be prosecuted if the family wanted.

Stop beating yourself up. How much would you have to pay someone else to put in the time you've been putting in? Why aren't your siblings helping out? Find out how much you would have to pay someone to do what you are doing, write down the hours you've put in & how much you would pay someone else for all you've been doing. Keep track on paper. I gaurantee you that you would have paid someone else more than what you've paid yourself. You need time for yourself, this is realling beating you up. How old are your kids? You need to talk to an advocate. Caring for a parent takes a lot of time & money & puts our own lives on hold. Trust me, I know.

Do NOT feel guilty. I assisted my dad for 7 years after my mother passed.

He paid his own way; I didn't want anything but he helped in that I could use his car and he paid all the bills for the car. Later he decided he needed to give me something and he gave me $50 month. Not a lot of money and it did help.

My father needed to know he was paying his own way. He was a child of the depression and he simply couldn't have handled being a burden on anyone. (If he hadn't had enough income, I would have lied to him to allow him to believe he was self-supportive. Thankfully it never came to that.)

I'm not saying you need to be paid. I'm saying there is nothing wrong with using her money to take care of her needs.

Keep all receipts and make sure they are marked for what was purchased. This is to protect yourself later on.

Okay... let's talk to the REAL caregivers. My family has "rainy day" accounts. For some, the rain never came and they simply passed away. The others live, with illness, and would prefer their families care for them in a home versus a nursing facility ANYDAY. Whichever "rocket scientist" accused you of stealing must have a pot of gold stashed somewhere for caregiving funds. I'm a kid of a baby boomer. My granny fell ill at the age of 89. Still living... and now 91, she can't live independently anymore.

I left a large city, earning 72k and now earn $800/month in the country . There is no way in the world, I'm going to let a rainy day account wait for the rain when there is a thunderstorm outside! Our families expect us to care for them and rely on kids and grandkids to care for them... regardless.
If your mom is concerned about her money, politely tell her to hire an external caregiver, and see how fast her money will dissipate.  Or worst, if she ends up in a nursing home!
At the end of the day, ask yourself this question: if what I spend is used for my family members well-being or quality of life? If I use my granny's money to pay my cell phone bill in which doctors and other call... should I feel guilty? NO. If I go shopping at Nordstrom with my granny money should I fell guilty? Yes indeed. Use sound judgement and keep it moving.