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IMHO, this would be a BOLD move by the hospital, though it could be legit. Could you get her physician to sign off on the fact that she needs additional care?
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I can't seem to find the reason for hospital admission.
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Llamalover47 Feb 2020
Beatty: Good catch. There are 92 posts. Hmm - I'll try to look.
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To anyone else who joins in (currently about 92 answers), please NOTE the following if you are not going to read the other comments and replies:

1) OP's mom has advanced dementia
2) mom's been in the hospital for psych eval
3) mom's income ($1400) > Medicaid limit
4) mom's income way < MC facility ($4000)
5) mom has no house, no assets of any kind - no spend down or home sale
6) mom is dangerous to have in home with minor children (and adults!)
7) there is no Miller trust in NC
8) OP has appt with EC next week
9) OP did NOT dump mom at the ER or hospital
10) OP WANTS appropriate placement for mom

I've probably missed a few points, but the above covers most.

Rehab won't be an option, she isn't "recovering" from a treatable medical condition. Medicare is cracking down on ALL rehab, but this wouldn't qualify.

Mom can't afford LTC. Her income exceeds Medicaid limit in NC.
This is a place TOO many people are in (kind of like the donut-hole for Medicare drug coverage.) Income too high for Medicaid, not nearly enough for ANY kind of LTC care. SS is NOT going to cover the cost of LTC - it was only intended as a buffer for those with little or no retirement income. Not everyone has a great job with great benefits and ability to save large amounts of money to cover this kind of care. It's only going to get worse as more pensions go the way of the dodo bird (not everyone had one to begin with!) Sure, investments are great at the moment, as they were before 2008. We all know what happened then, eh?
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NeedHelpWithMom Feb 2020
Nice recap of info! Thanks, disgustedtoo.
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See this for details:
https://www.elderlawanswers.com/how-medicare-beneficiaries-can-fight-a-hospital-discharge-12218

Did you get any paperwork from the hospital when mom was admitted or prior to this "discharge" notification? There is more detail in the link above, but it mentions them being *required* to give you a notice within 2 days of admission (An Important Message from Medicare about Your Rights (IM)). It would explain  discharge and appeal rights. It says it must be read, signed and dated. Did you get this paper and sign it? Hopefully as POA or rep, not as yourself or "responsible" party.

The link also says you should get another copy of this paperwork 2 days prior to discharge. It doesn't say anything about reading/signing the second copy, but do go to the link above. There is a place you can contact about appeal (indicates Medicare Quality Improvement Organization (QIO) and says the phone # should be on the IM.)

Read the rest of the link. If you didn't get the paperwork, I would contact Medicare ASAP and inquire about getting this appeal in the works! It might not buy a lot of time, but any time will give you more time to work out what needs to be done!

(I clicked on the QIO link in the web page above and selected NC - it shows these #s
North Carolina

KEPRO
888−317−0751 (toll-free);
813−280−8256 (local);
855−843−4776 (TTY);
833−868−4058 (toll-free fax)
www.keproqio.com
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I just wish that the OP would come back with an update.

She is probably overwhelmed with all of this, as I am.
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disgustedtoo Feb 2020
More than likely OP won't be able to update until after the appointment with the EC attorney.

OP has responded to comments, but until something happens (hospital follows through with threat to transport mom back via sheriff or she can make them see the light) there isn't much OP can say right now.
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I agree with other post who says the system is broken.-hence my posting name of medicaid maze-applying for, eligibility requirements, availability of beds, wait list, behaviors etc. facility requirements/check list of who they will take or not take-they are not required to fill all beds in the first place.

My sister's current facility says if I don't like what they are doing care wise, I could take my sister to ER for "change in behavior". Sister behavior is fairly stable in spite of minimal care or concern at the facility-but still wanting to get her out due to loosing weight, injuries, being unclean. I have been digging for better placement for 4 months-several have refused her bad behavior, several wait list and several say no thank you for either behavior or because we don't have a bucket of money for self pay.

I did agree to hospital evaluation before as her behavior was out of control with agitation and elopement-resulted in nearly 3 weeks of being in restraints. Meds were changed and seem to be helpful-only because we knew she would not be able to return to assisted living-she was not doing well there-she needed more help than they were willing to provide at AL level. Only because we knew a change of care was imminent we started looking as soon as she was hospitalized-with only one option available as now sister has "agitation felony" on her records-not too many places are willing to take her on.

We were unsure as to how she might do in our home with my family members who sister does not know or recognize anymore would cause more problems for sister too. I have a couple more housing options to look at crossing my fingers again that one will work out for my sister.

I have had several communities ,including the current facility, recommend other communities for potential placement that have been cited for abuse-it is obvious to me that the staff who are making these recommendations are not doing any kind of vetting of care/quality before they pass along or set up a placement on your behalf.

All the resources available for finding senior housing are just going off a list too-they are not doing any research to narrow down best care choices either-they have no insight as to what the facility is really like-they have no power to move you to the first in line-even if they could do this -not always going to match up with when you need a bed.

Unfortunately, It is up to the family to do their own research and when it comes to hospital discharge the time can be very limited to figure out where to go in a short amount of time. As I have mentioned before the good places have few if any beds available when you might need one. I think there should be minimum standards of care required for a place to remain open-no community cited for abuse should even be out there waiting for the next emergency placement to come along. We are at the mercy of insurance, hospital discharges, available placements and quality of care.
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MountainMoose Feb 2020
Great post, Medicaidmaze20! One thing that hurts families trying to find options is that to read government or insurance websites, there's so much tech-speak that they make no sense to anyone reading them for the first (or subsequent) time. Those sites are WRITTEN by people who know all about what they're typing but READ by people who know little about it.
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Try to find a geriatric care manager to help you with finding a suitable place for your loved one. They can be a tremendous help at a time like this and the hospital or the doctor's office can likely recommend a few they work with...good luck!
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I think magnumpi just likes to push peoples buttons. Magnumpi is back pushing buttons on here with disgustedtoo.
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NeedHelpWithMom Feb 2020
Crazy.
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Snice she us not safe to return home and has no asserts or income, I would get the hospital social worker involved to assist in long term placement under Medicaid. As a hospital social worker, I realize that Medicaid beds are hard to procure but for her safety the social worker need a to intervene. The area agency on Aging should be contacted for any assistance they can offer in regards to emergency placement and the long term Medicaid grant application should be completed as soon as possible. Both the social worker and the agency onaging should be able to assist with its completion
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No or else they can be sued. Does the hospital want to face a lawsuit? Dementia mother has nobody to take care of her at home & needs to be placed in facility. So demand to see Social Worker & tour a couple of places near you. Stress that it would be an unsafe discharge. Also make appointment with Elder Atty to see how you can pay for her care & save her $$$ as well. Good luck! Hugs 🤗
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She cannot go on Medicaid until her money is gone. That’s the rule for everybody & you can’t get out of it. You shouldn't be trying to get her on Medicaid. The money she saved is for her to use in her old age for herself, and right now she needs it! If there’s is any money left over, then it goes to her beneficiaries. Please don’t expect the govt. to finance you with other people’s taxes. I had to pay plenty for my husband. I think I answered you once before when I said you should find a nice nearby nursing home for her. She’s your Mom - let her get the best care she can in her old age. I haven’t heard of it, but maybe, by law, the sheriff is allowed to force her to leave the hospital and, if you have no continuing care place for her to go, she will have to live with you! By the way, Medicare (not Medicaid) will pay for some of the care, but not all, if she is in the Skilled Nursing section of Continuing Care. Ask the coordinator/social worker at the hospital to help you.
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mstrbill Feb 2020
You apparently haven't read the thread and OP's responses. Mother does not have any money, she takes home $1400 a month, has no other assets or savings. She has not been successful finding placement in a NH. What the hospital SW should do is help find placement. It is not safe for any of the parties involved to have Mom remain in the home. Hopefully APS will be able to help if Mom was sent home.
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Tired has not posted since Feb 19th.
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mstrbill Feb 2020
I don't think she's going to come back, unfortunately. She had said she was going to bow out.
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Sorry, with all the responses, I did miss Tiredmomma’s follow-up post. I did not mean any offense.

Someone mentioned Memory Care. There are more & more Continuing Care facilities offering this service now, including the Senior Community where I live. That sounds like the right place for someone with dementia. The hospital should give you a list of Continuing Care facilities, as I obtained for my husband and successfully found him a good one not far away from me.

When my brother went to Continuing Care, he had to deplete whatever little savings he had; also, his social security check was sent directly to the care center. Anything extra was paid by Medicaid so it does not make sense what is happening in your Mom’s case. Unless rules have changed since then.

On the right of this page, there is a sidebar to contact Teresa Ann, Care Advisor. It might help to contact her to see if she could give you some guidance.

I only wish I could help you more. It’s hard going it alone. I know: I had to make the decisions for my father, my husband and my brother. They’re all gone now and I miss them terribly, but I know I did the best I could.
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gladimhere Feb 2020
Teresa is actually "A Place for Mom", owns this site.
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No, hospital can not do that. It is there responsibility to have a "safe discharge" plan. Therefore, they must find her a facilit to go to.
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JoAnn29 Feb 2020
OP has not responded since the 19th. Seems she bowed out.
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