Hospital forcing me to pick up mom with dementia.

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Hospital forcing me to pick up mom with dementia.

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Yes cricket they send them home in a yellow cab!! The yellow cabs with the casino signs on top are parked all day and night in front of the hospital. It is absolutely legal for the hospital to do this. They did it to my mother twice this month. The ER is her 2nd home. Her winter home.

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I used to call the ER 'club med" for my father when he was still living on his own. He would got to the ER about once a week. When they couldn't track me down they would call him a cab (provided he remembered to bring money with him) and a few times the local police would transport him.

(2)

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Yup!!! They send them home. Doesn’t matter if you say unsafe discharge or failure to thrive, or she lives alone and weak and feeble and can barely walk. If she has her mind and is competent, she’s going home.

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My mother took a taxi home from the hospital. If your competent they will send you home by taxi. They did this twice with my mother. She goes to the hospital once a week so far in February and the month is not over yet.

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Call 211-- the county has a facility where those who must use Medicare to pay are welcome. Sometimes not the best care. But their depends will be changed. They will be fed, bathed, and tucked in. THEN you can look for a good place with memory care that will care for your loved one. But you will have to find the funding. My mother used my father's time in the military to get the aid and attendance program-- which now pays $1127 per month. Don't panic. Don't give up. Start at the beginning and fight the good fight ! Good luck, God bless you.

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You have no idea if the OPs county has a facility for Medicare patients. We need to remember that.....every city, county and state has different facilities. We don’t all have the same things. The OPs mother needs LTC and Medicare won’t pay for that so I doubt there is a county facility for Medicare patients. Maybe you meant Medicaid? If so, not every county has county-run facilities.

(7)

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Broadly speaking, most of us are living too long past the time when we are self supporting/self caring. The family members who still are, are not earning enough to provide for themselves, their kids and their elders as well. You cannot save for your old age while earning minimum wage. The idea with social security was that it would be only a few years between the time you had to stop working and the moment you dropped dead mowing the lawn. A VERY different world.

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OMG yes! I have an aunt who is 97 and has had dementia for - get this - 20 years. I don't get it. And my mother is 86, has CHF and other health problems, requires lots of attention and doctor visits (the elderly use significantly more health care than the average adult), is becoming less independent (although she still drives, but not as much, and she should not be driving, but that is another matter - over 85s are more dangerous drivers than teens). She is always wanting to go to the ER. Won't take her anxiety meds because she's afraid she won't wake up, and on and on. But let's make them live as long as possible! Who cares if they are living productively, happily, if they are lonely, outlive their family and friends, but make doctors, health care pros and pharma companies rich. That may be an exaggeration, but I often wonder to what end are we living longerrrrrrr?

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Just a suggestion, set your answers to newest first. This way you see any updates from the OP. Also, quickly look for replies from the OP to answers. Sometimes there is more info.

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Problem as I see it is some people are not reading (much) beyond the original post. Setting to newest doesn't always help if you haven't read the first 80 comments and potential replies! OP could reply to a post from 2+ days ago, but it doesn't show up among the "newest."

The suggestion I've made is people need to, at the very least, skim through the responses, and make note of additional input from the OP. It would be even better if they read all the posts, because people keep posting the same things over and over - don't mind the repetition for useful comments, but when they don't bother to read that mom's income is over the Medicaid limit, but way under the MC cost AND she has and hasn't had any home or assets, yet keep telling OP to find AL and/or apply for Medicaid. OP isn't exactly stupid, clearly she has checked the cost of a facility and has checked with Medicaid..

READ people, READ!! Spend a little more time reading, and it will likely cut down in the time it takes for you to respond!!!

(this isn't the only time - I see this all the time in other threads)

(2)

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I have a background in hospital case management. I have never heard of calling the police if you don’t pick a patient up. The most they can do is charge her for room and board. If insurance stops paying the patient gets charged while other placement if found. If she is not medical stable see if you can appeal her discharge. If you don’t want to take her home you don’t have to but if she is medically cleared the next leave of care needs to be found. Either you do that or they will.

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Right, that is the way it is supposed to be done.

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I assume that she is on Medicare. Health insurance will only pay for X number of days in the hospital and they dictate when a patient must be discharged.

Long story short, you need to find a temporary place for mom to go that is safe. I don't know all of the details, but if she has become dangerous, why have you not already found a place for her before it turned into a crisis situation? Surely, you saw the signs.....

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She tried but was unsuccessful. For people with little assets and income it isn't easy to call up the local NH and move in. Nursing homes wouldn't take Mom because she is ambulatory (that's what she said) and private pay assisted living/memory care cost too much.

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Time to find a nursing home/assisted living that can take care of her, do a spend down on her money and when you are able apply for Medicaid or if able Veterans Benefits.

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Tired Mom, be sure to mention that you will report any "UNSAFE DISCHARGE" to JCAHO. Hospitals fear this a whole lot. A social worker will be assigned. Hope you will update us. Also notify her doctor you will report this.

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Hello Tiredmomma,
I had a very similar situation. I had taken my mom to the ER and her BP was almost 200/100. She had become a 2-person assist. She was scheduled to have a TAVR procedure in 2 weeks. The ER told me at 9:30 pm that either I remove her by midnight or I would be arrested!! I demanded a social worker and together at 10pm drove to about 2 group homes to see if either would accept her in their care for just 2 weeks so she’d get proper care, nourishment in order to bridge the 2 weeks until her surgery since I couldn’t manage her alone at home. We did find a place and at midnight we’re checking my poor mom, who also had dementia, into a group home that she did not want to be in. It was the most horrible experience of my life and hers! It got worse as the next day the group home didn’t want to keep her. I won’t go into all the details but the next two weeks were horrible and my mother eventually went into a hospice on a Friday night and passed away 3 days later on Monday. That was almost 4 years ago and I remember it like it was yesterday. Health care In this country today is disgraceful. So, in answer to your question, can they do that, my answer would be yes.
I wish you the best of luck in dealing with your beloved mom. It’s not easy to find solutions especially if you’re on limited income. Sometimes we have too much to qualify for aid when these situations come on suddenly and we haven’t had time to take necessary steps in advance but not enough money to pay for the exorbitant rates that facilities charge. Sending hugs and love your way that you’re able to work things out.

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I am so sorry for you to have to go through that. You are right that health care in this country sucks. I have a feeling it is going to get worse. that sound so traumatic to your mom. You worked hard all your life, the time comes for you to retire with dignity but you cant. I have worked in nursing room and it is not pretty there. wake you up at wee in the morning and some people are not nice.

(5)

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Just a quick thought - we went through this with my grandmother about 2 months ago. Our original plan was that she would be transferred to a rehab facility after her hospital stay, and from there we would try to transition her into a nursing home. Well, Medicare denied the rehab stay because she was hospitalized for congestive heart failure, and that condition had stabilized. So we got the call on a Thursday morning that they were discharging her that afternoon. We met with the hospital social worker who explained that hospital stays and Medicare coverage deal with physical things that are treated and resolved and because my grandmother's dementia is the ongoing issue for which we were seeking a long term care solution, the route we were seeking was not available. BUT - the social worker's assessment of my grandmother was that she would likely be an appropriate candidate for a Memory Care assisted living facility. AND, the facility she had in mind offered respite care that would allow us a moment of breathing room to figure out a more permanent solution. Within a half hour, the rep from the facility was there at the hospital, explained our options, assessed Grandma, and got the ball rolling. We chose respite care with the option to transition into a regular resident. That afternoon, Gramma was transported by the facility to her new room in the memory care unit. Two weeks ago we signed the paperwork to make it her official residence.

The moral of the story is that you need to stay calm, and enlist the experts that are available to help you discover options. Sort through them and ask every question you can think of. I don't know why the OP's hospital wasn't more helpful, and I don't know why these options aren't part of the initial conversation as a general rule. It would certainly make things easier.

It would be lovely if we didn't have to become so aggressive just to get the answers we need to make good decisions. But, that's not the reality. Advocacy for your loved ones - and yourself - is not an easy road, and it's essential to be tenacious while traveling it.

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Hi my mom was in the hospital for two days for a painful tailbone fracture. She came home last night. My brother and I pleaded the hospitalist doctor to trans her to skilled nursing facility to rehab her broken tailbone. Doctor said no she is going home because Medicare now has a new law that if you are stable they will not allow for skilled nursing care. Physical therapy will be done at home. He said i need your mom's bed. How cold! A couple of years ago when mom had emergency hernia surgery she was sent to nursing rehab for two months and sent her home. Medicare has become more and more stingy

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Hello Tiredmomma!
I have been where you are, aside from my dad was still living and taking care of my mom on his own, while hiding it from my sister and I. I finally opened my eyes as Dad asked if we could move closer so I could take care of them in their "golden years," Did all the right things, took mom to the doc as I had done before and got nowhere. Finally I forced my way into doctor appt with mom, where she had been telling everyone she was fine and nothing was wrong and I let it all out. Made a plan to get her meds, etc. and just to see how it goes. 3 days later, she had a stroke and from there, we just took over. Check with your county office of aging. They often have help with applying for different aging programs and also something called the "New Choice Waiver." This is a waiver that will actually pay for your mom to be in a memory care unit where she will be safe, as apposed to being with your family which is unsafe for you and your family. I suspect you have now had an appointment with your elder care attorney and they have explained these options. The New Choice waiver is from the state, thru Medicaid and at some point there is a waiting period. In my state of UTah, the waiver is automatic if your mom stays in the hospital for 3 days, then goes to a rehab center for 90 days, then this will pay for her Assisted Living. If she has nothing, the Medicaid should not be a problem. If she does not go in the path that I explained, you can still apply and wait it out. SOmetimes self pay at the Assisted living center is the only way you can do it. It is very expensive, but hopefully you can get one that will actually take care of her. I moved my mom twice to find the right fit. I was lucky, my parents had money so they were able to pay out of pocket for the center and it was a juggle to take care of Dad who was now in the hospital and move mom who was thrashing around and trying to escape form the the Assisted living center. My experience from this waiver is my mother in law and the fact that I am a landlord at an elderly Public Housing community. I have worked very closely with all these types of assistance and it is so frustrating.
Don't let them push you around. You are on the right track. Please post an update of your situation after you attorney visit.
Best of luck!

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The OPs mom is NOT in Utah therefore the waiver your mother qualified for is not an option here.

(6)

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ER wanted to release my mom but I couldnt take care of her anymore. I asked to talk to hospital social worker who helped me find a place for her. She was transported that same evening.

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Melotonin is NOT harmful. If you take too much you might get a bad headache.
AND Melotonin is NOT a solution to this persons problem

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Have you not already gotten hooked up with an Attorney that specializes in Senior issues. It sounds like you did not protect her assets from being taken by the facilities. FIRST FIND AN ATTORNEY THAT SPECIALIZES in SENIOR ISSUES.

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Mom's assets should be used for her care - not protected at the taxpayer's expense.

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The hospital can and will release your mother as soon as her being hospitalized is no longer "justified" for medical rrasons. If you can no longer manage her at home, you need to find a long term care facility for her.

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She's had no success finding a long term facility. What if Tiredmomma got sick herself or injured or incapacitated? Would hospital still send demented Mom home with no one there? What would they do then? Decent medical facilities that follow ethical guidelines ensure discharges that are safe. Tiredmomma is no longer able to provide safe care. She no longer has the capacity to care for Mom. The social work department must do their job and assist people in need like this.

(10)

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Simple answer is YES.

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Not everything is so simple, and in this case, that discharge would be to a toxic, unsafe environment. Probably unethical.

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We ran into the same thing with both of my parents last year. We were advised by the social worker at the hospital to tell them upon discharge that he/she is not safe. Tell everyone that talks to you about her discharge that she is not safe. We were told to say it 100 times if we had to and then the hospital would not be able to release her. At that point the social worker will contact nursing homes or other places qualified to give her the care she needs. It worked for us for both of my parents. Good luck to you!!

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Shameful behavior of them. So the sheriff comes. What if nobody is home? You think the sheriff's don't have better things to be doing than babysitting people, with dementia no less? Sounds to me like they want an empty bed to refill. When did she last apply for medicaid? Income guidelines change. I'd be taking the family and going on vacation ASAP until it is resolved. As in don't tell anyone and get to even a local hotel. Anything...just don't be anywhere they can find you from info you have provided. But I know in your heart you care, and if she has a key to the house and they help her in, gosh I don't know who would be held accountable. Call the lawyer...

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The hospital here in Alabama did this VERY same thing to me in November. I told them she could not come back here, and they said either I come get her or they were going to call the police and dhr. They sent my mom home to me in a yellow cab! No joke. I don't know if it's legal, but they did it.

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No they cannot! My lawyer said the hospital will assign an social worker

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Sounds like in OP's case, the social worker/discharge planner has to be pressured to do his/her job. Not just take the easy way of saying "your problem, not mine."

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She will have to do the "spend down" (using her own assets/money to pay for her own care) before Medicaid will take her on. After spending down, if she still has too much coming in monthly from a pension or something, you will have to get a Millers Trust. Work with a social worker at the hospital to help you get her placed somewhere. Use her money to get an appointment with an elder lawyer. They can explain everything and help you. It's a lot to deal with if you're unfamiliar with it. But if you have been caring for your mom for 14 years, this isn't a situation that came up overnight. There is work involved to get your mom where she needs to be. A previous poster suggested that you might be in your moms home...if that is the case, you've got bigger issues because her home is an asset that will need to be sold to pay for her care.

Can you give us more detail?

Good Luck.

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for Pete's sake, please read through this thread and Tiredmomma's responses. Mother is in Daughter's home. Mother would qualify for LTC Medicaid if she's medically needy. Physician has already recommended LTC.

(11)

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In my state, that is not allowed. The hospital must provide a safe discharge plan. Have you spoken with the social worker as well as the attending physician? Is she eligible for any skilled nursing time under Medicare?(physical therapy, wound care,etc.). If she has some savings and / or a house, she may be able to be admitted to a skilled nursing facility with private funds. Yes, she would have to spend down savings until she is Medicaid eligible and the house would need to be sold. Have you contacted any facilities on your own? At the very least, a physical therapy evaluation needs to be performed.

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"...she would have to spend down savings until she is Medicaid eligible and the house would need to be sold. Have you contacted any facilities on your own?"

No savings. No house to sell (never had one.) No assets.

OP has already posted mom's income is 1400/m, MC is 4000/m, Medicaid limit for their state is LESS than mom's income.

OP would LOVE to have mom move to a facility, but mom can't afford it, is over the Medicaid limit and CAN'T take her back into the home due to safety issues.

(0)

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You need to speak with your mom social worker at the hospital and tell them it would be a unsafe discharge for her to come back to your house. Let them know she can not stay with you. Do you have P.O.A or Conservatship over her? I went through the same thing with my father but I was able to get him in a nice nursing home from the hospital because I refused to take him home from the hospital.

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I was under the impression, that if you told the hospital that you want her to go to longterm care facility, that the social worker at the hospital would do the paperwork for that if you ask them. And that she could stay there until they fund the first available bed in a nursing facility. But you would have had to ask in the beginning of her admission at the hospital

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Yes, competent good hospitals will help find proper placement. That is why they have social work departments. But you don't have to ask for it at the beginning, it can be done after evaluation by the professionals.

(10)

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i guess your mom is on the violent side well i know what will help calm her down would be to get melatonin so should get the 10 mgs gummy kind good & you can tell her that they are vitamin's it is a natural sleep gummy kind google it . my mom had a script for it was used .. there are some that do not think it is safe but it is it is ideal to give it to her a hour before she gets mean my mom that would be 1pm you may have to ask the hospital to give them to her .. so give them to her at home @ a hour before she gets mean ..well good luck....

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NO! 10mgs of melatonin is waaay too much to give without a doctor's intervention or overseeing. I can appreciate your concern, but the advice is not relevant for this thread.

(1)

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This thread is degrading very quickly by trolls who have not bothered to read the previous responses. Tiredmomma, I'm sorry you're going through this, and again I hope you follow through with the constructive advice many had given yesterday. Stick to your guns, make sure you follow through with APS and the attorney and keep Mom out of your home.

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The responses don't come up in the order in which they were posted so sometimes the reader is responding without all the posts being read.

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Check this out.

https://elder.findlaw.com/elder-abuse/elder-abandonment.html

Elder abandonment is generally defined as the purposeful and permanent desertion of an elderly person. The victim may be left at a hospital, a nursing home, or in a public location. Perhaps the abandoning person feels overburdened or believes he or she lacks the resources to care for the victim.

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Ok, the link defines somewhat, but doesn't really provide any insight on what one can do, other than contact EC atty. Any similar links for child abuse/endangerment? The woman is violent to family members, including minor children.... She also didn't "dump" her mother there, she was getting evaluated. Perhaps refusing to have her discharged back to the home would fall under this "abandonment", but there should be some compassion for the situation and for the welfare of the family and children.

(1)

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Yes. It is illegal to "hospital dump", which is what this seems like. You need to find placement in an assisted living or nursing home.

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What if she can't find placement in a NH? What then? She can't let this go on at home, it is dangerous for both her family and mother. Unsafe. The sad thing is, it is all too often next to impossible for some people to find NH placement, especially those with moderate income. and then there is little help from anyone else. Many people stuck in situations where there is nowhere to turn.

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Hospital forcing me to pick up mom with dementia.

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