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Robin
Your mother is not going to give you more money just because you ask.
Forget about the facts and figures.
You can charge whatever you like just like she can pay whatever she likes if you are willing to put up with it.

So far she wins because you put up with it.

You have not given her a compelling reason to give you more money.

For her, a compelling reason is because she HAS to give you money or else something worse will happen. Something will cost her more.

Something like you are going to move or you are going to evict her/them. Some threat that is here and now.

She is saving her money for her old age. For when she has worked you and your husband into the ground and wants to make sure she can still take care of herself.

Since you mention that she goes home and pays her bills, I assume that means that dad has never in the near five years, changed his address?

I suppose that their SS checks and pension (whose pension is it anyway? ) are directly deposited into an account where the statement goes to next door?

Could you even prove (on paper) that they live with you?

On paper it probably looks like she’s a very nice mother who gives you $200 each month out of the kindness of her heart.

I think you need an attorney.

Your mother holds all the cards. If she were giving you the money you requested, without a legal document, it would look like gifting. Gifting could keep them from being eligible for Medicaid. They will have an event that requires greater care. The proper documents could protect you and them.

And they can pay for the attorney.

They go home, you don’t need an attorney. They are the ones with the problem. They are the ones asking for help and deciding what your time is worth. What your life is worth.

You and your husband are the ones allowing it to happen.

Are you on the bank account? Are you in the will? Do you have a financial or medical POA for either of them? What visible signs do you have to show that she values your and your family’s sacrifice?
Personally I wouldn’t want her to sell her house. I would want her in it.

Robin. The tail is wagging the dog. Your parents need help. This is their responsibility. Not yours. Why else would they be living in your home if theirs sits next door?! They must pay their own way.

I’m just being silly here but what if you just went to her house each evening? Ate her food, took your bath, did your laundry, watched a little tv and went to bed? Less crowded over there. A little quieter. Next morning get up and have breakfast for one or you could invite hubby over. Oh and be sure to let her know that you are out of eggs so she can pick some up for you.
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cherokeegrrl54 Apr 2019
You are absolutely correct in your answer!!!
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Not unreasonable, but going from a couple hundred to over a grand a month is going to be a shocker to them. Dividing utilities and food by 4 sounds reasonable, but leave out the taxes and home insurance. Those you have to pay whether they are with you or not. You have the debit card, so figure out what utils/food is per person and use the debit card for that amount. Say these expenses are $400 per couple. Buy $400 of household groceries each month. And also buy the things only they use with the debit card, just as you've been doing. Doing it that way wouldn't be such a shocker and would probably be easier for both of them to see clearly that it is fair. Keep a record of this for them and if you have siblings who may not see you are being compensated for their items only -- some siblings will NEVER see what your time/work has been worth.

If their income is $3300 and they paid you $1100, is the remaining $2200 enough for them to maintain their bills and upkeep on the home they still have? If it is, then they have probably been creating quite a savings account over the years. It may be time to use it.
Perhaps they can return home and start paying for in home health care. If your mom goes there all the time to pay bills, etc, she seems to be doing ok as far as getting to the house, managing paperwork, etc. If there is a reason they don't need to be living there, even with the help, then try the conversation that you/your husband will be working more hours to make ends meet and they will need to start paying someone to come to your house each day to help with their care. Then hire a temp to see how it goes. They might realize how much caregiving workers get paid.
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Absolutely not unreasonable at all. The questions are: Do you forsee if they be returning to their home and if not then you must have the talk preferably with a professional of having them accept that they need assistance in ADL or assisted living; then you may have to be their POA to get the funds needed to maintain their living expenses so you all will not be in a position of financial hardship as their medical needs are changing. I made the mistake and waited too late and when a tragic situation presented itself, I was not ready financially or emotionally. Sometimes you have to force the issue and let the chips fall where they may because it is now about their care and if they have 3300 p/m then they have to share the expenses equally for all so it is not on just you and your husband while trying to take care of them. It is obvious that they do not realize the ramifications of the level of care they are receiving so legally you have to put these systems in place. Your husband should not be delivering pizzas and taking care of your parents. That is too much and God bless him for helping out but that is unrealistic when your parents are home with you. Also you sound like a person who does not want to take their parents money but sometimes a fair a equitable share is for the good of everyone involved so take control and avoid these perceptions because the care factor is real and you have to think about your family as well as your parents.
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I have my father in law living with us. We gave up our master bedroom with en suite bedroom so he doesn’t have to go up and downstairs everyday. With that, I gave up my bathtub since upstairs bath ha shower only. I’ve always enjoyed my tub since that was how I relaxed. I also gave up privacy of being a couple with my husband and I. We are shadowed all the time. With that said, I cook every night for FIL. I set table. Husband cleans up after dinner. Husband and I do all the housework. FIL only makes his own bed. That’s it. He has a good pension and he sends money each month to his daughter who is not financially secure although she owns her house and bought a new car. We bring FIL to church most weeks, bring him to all Dr appts, haircut appointments and bring him wherever he needs to go. I buy him clothes when needed. Once in a blue moon his other son will drop,by and bring him on an appointment but other than that he does not help,us at all. We take complete care of him. We do not charge him any money nor has he offered. When we go out to dinner sometimes he picks up the check. When we bring him to pharmacy he will pay for his own things. I mostly do groceries without him because it takes so long to go with him. But when we do, he pays for his own group,of things he likes. But most of the time I pay for all our groceries. When I start resenting my FIL it’s not bout the money but out of the principle that he doesn’t think about contributing financially or with things like setting the table. I have to remind myself he is 85 and without us he would not have the life he has. I hope I’m setting a good example to our children. It is not easy being a caregiver and you give up so much but I don’t think money would fix that. I wouldn’t dare ask for a financial contribution but you could track what you buy strictly for them. I do think asking 1,100 a month is excessive. Could 500 a month rent ( per couple, not each) work for you? That would be strictly rent which includes utilities. Then after that they would cover their own expenses for food and incidentals or you can break it out by charging a flat fee for the draining around you do, their food and incidentals they use each month. But put it out all on paper. Good luck.
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SicilianLady1 Apr 2019
You sound like a "saint" in your description of how you are taking care of your FIL, but I am old enough to  realize that  there are  extenuating circumstances in every story.
Robin 316's mother sounds like a bullying "bi**h".  Perhaps your FIL has always been good to you and to your husband. Perhaps he has given you and your husband money through the years or has even helped send your children through college.  Perhaps your FIL is wealthy. (You did say that he has a good pension). You probably will be paid one way or another---whatever he is not giving you now, you will get at least 1/3 back when your FIL dies Perhaps you and your husband are wealthy, you are a stay at home wife and you are a spiritual woman. But you could also be trying to take care of FIL so that there will be more money in his estate which he will live to your husband and your husband's siblings. The old saying: you can pay me now or you can pay me later" Sounds like you could be paid later.(I've seen everything). 

Do really think that it is any of your business to tell this poor woman that "asking for $1,100 a month is excessive"? This woman's poor husband is retired at reduced SS benefits and having to deliver pizzas to make ends meet and you 're talking about the sacrifice you've had to make by giving up soaking in the bathtub which you enjoyed so much?  "Boo Hoo"!!!   You say that you would not dare "ask for a financial contribution". Again, maybe your husband is a businessman and is not on regular SS and certainly not on reduced benefits. Or maybe your husband is retired and gets a good pension.
You may or may not have noticed that you are the only poster who had such a "cavalier" attitude about this poor woman's struggle. And you say "I hope  I'm setting a good example for our children"?  Good luck on that one. Based on conversations with my friends, if you think that your children will be taking care of you as you say you are taking care of your FIL, you will be sadly disappointed.
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My god, you should have much, much more money coming to you. Why on earth did you allow them to live with you in the first place if they have a house. Obviously your mother seems quite capable. Think what you would get if an outside tenant lived with you. And you and your husband are struggling so much now and that is just wrong. Sit them down and tell them in no uncertain terms - they have a house. Sell it and use the money for their care - if with you, you are going to charge them each $1,000 a month or whatever it would be for two of them. Tell them if they do not do this, they will be put out of your home and into a facility. I bet they will jump to pay you the rent.
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They should be giving you more money. Good grief. Why did you agree to this? How are you even managing financially? Your poor DH has to deliver pizzas.
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Husband and I share a house with my son and his family we split all utilities 50/50
however because my husband gets a pension we put everything in his name and get a discounted rate
water
electricity
gas
landline
rates
insurance
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It seems like you have to get your mom especially an ultimatum if she expects you to take care of her and live with you. If she still pays bills on her own house, why can’t she rent it out, and give your family the money you need?
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Please try to move them back to their own home. Taking money from them now will only make things worse. I can't imagine parents not wanting to pay their own children who have generously taken them into a home with built-in caregiving. You and your husband do not owe them anything. Don't let them get a stronger foothold than they already have. Your mother is being totally unreasonable and selfish. I feel bad for your dad, but you're too young to be giving up your life to care for them. Consider telling them you've decided to not raise their rent because you are longer willing to have them in your home. Seriously, nip it in the bud. It's not going to get better. Only worse. Much much worse!
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I agree with the posters who said you are absolutely not being unreasonable. That being said, I would have them move back to their home... this does not sound like a good combo for you as they get worse, no matter how much they pay you.

The thing that really stuck out to me is that she is not only using you for care, but she is basically using you as a babysitter for your dad, who she doesn’t want to deal with. This is her HUSBAND. Meh marriage or not, she doesn’t get to farm him out to you and your very kind husband while she enjoys quiet time in her little nest.

Did anyone else notice the sudden (and dragged out) need for cataract surgeries in order to get Dad to your house and keep him there? I hate to say it, but this sounds more like a plan she hatched than the normal landing unexpectedly in need.

Not cool. At all.

I hope you can take care of you and protect your health and marriage and that you and hubby can help each other be strong and deal with this... wishing you the best.
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Well I have my mother living with me and I charge her 350 a month for room rent and I have a written agreement to backup rent and utilities I also make 25 dollars a day for caregiving as she is completely depending on me including meal preparation and changing her as needed but on average 4 times a day I also transport her to adult daycare three times a week to give her some social life.
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True, that’s a bargain price! My mom should pay too but she doesn’t get a big social security check. It’s hard. I hope they eventually see that it’s a burden for you and hubby.
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I haven't read all the responses but my take on this is that trying to figure out what is the added cost to you is the wrong strategy, instead you need to base the amount on what they would be paying for room, board and care if they were on their own out in the community, and almost always family caregivers are a bargain in comparison. Why should anyone ever expect to get a free ride while they have enough to top up their savings account or blow money on non necessities?
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kdcm1011 May 2019
Or other family members who “need it” & don’t help with caregiving.
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I charge my mother 350 dollars a month rent and 1/2 the utility bill to include cable and land line and I also charge her on a variable scale an average of 25 dollars a day for caregiving and I hire another caregiver to do the heavy lifting at times with me being the backup my mother is paralyzed from her arm pits down I took her out of the nursing home after my siblings decision to place her there without consulting ALL family members to determine the best for Mother going forward and now she has been living with me for 14 months already and one sister hasn’t bothered to call her or visit since I took her out of the nursing home. She lives two blocks from my house. She was fired and can not get over it.
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Robin we are all wondering what you decided to do. Any decision after all our suggestions?
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Thank you all for your many very helpful answers. To give you all an update, I gave my parents the calculations (on paper) showing what it costs to have them live with us. I compromised and told them that starting May 1st, I wanted $800/month from them. My father absolutely agreed. He said there is no way they could live anywhere for that kind of money. My mother argued and complained, but I did not back down. I told her if she didn't give me a check that night, I was driving them both back to their house the next day.

By the way, since my original post, she has fallen twice at our house. The first time she fell on our 10 lb. bichon and they both had to go the ER. Ten days later she fell and hit her nose 15 minutes after my husband left to go the grocery store. My dad called me at work and I had to come home (I work 10 mins from home, thankfully) and was able to patch her up OK. She has since seen her primary dr and a neurologist and they both told her she can no longer drive and cannot stay at her house alone (even during the day). This infuriates her, but she has no choice in the matter. She has delirium and extremely poor short-term memory as well difficulty walking.

She is a very mean and nasty person and my husband and I hate her living with us. Even my dad doesn't like her living here. I am an only child and they really don't have very much money. At this point in time, none of us see any other options at this point in time. As her physical & mental health decline, I foresee moving her somewhere else eventually. Thank you very much, everyone!
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97yroldmom May 2019
Thank you Robin for checking in with the update. I’m sorry your mom has had the falls and I’m sorry your household is under more pressure.
Please be sure to keep proper records. I don’t mean to cause more trouble for you but I do want to mention that a visit to a certified elder attorney would be a good idea. Since it sounds like your mom will need outside care at some point and your dad will be a community spouse there are steps to be taken that can insure your dad is not left impoverished if and when your mom needs Medicaid for her care. There are many right steps to be taken that can’t be recitified after the fact. Good job on having them pay their own way. They should also pay for the attorney. We don’t know all of the ends and outs of their situation and yours but with the help of an attorney who is well versed in Medicaid law in your state you will be able to manage their care. Come back and let us know how things are going.
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Gat it in writing and in a legitimate "Caregiver's Contract", that way your Parents will be covered if they ever need to apply for Medicaid. Keep good records of all expenses too!
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