I heard my mother gossip about me to my brother and it really hurts. Advice?

Don’t be a Cinderella: brothers go out & get a life, with Mom's blessing; while the scullery maid stays home to take care of, and be put down by,
good old Mom. I was one. Don’t put up with it. I learned the hard way that it won’t end until you say “ no more” and mean it.
This has been too common on Planet Earth and it’s time to do away with it! Above all, do NOT live with her. Your life must come first.

Needhelp2021, I totally agree with all that has been said here. You mentioned that you wondered if your mother would be like this if she wasn't living in her own home, but if it was your home. I can tell you that she would probably be like this towards you wherever she lived. My mother lives with us in our home and behaves like this. She is moving out for good in January. I have had enough. The apologies after an episode of bad behaviour are a form of control: reeling you back in so she can abuse you again. I empathize with you being upset at seeing her throw away those pictures. My husband found and rescued a load of old photos of me as a child with my grandparents in the rubbish bin that my mother had thrown out. She could have asked me if I wanted them, but she didn't. I felt it was me who had been tossed out with the rubbish.

NeedHelp,
I am a bit oversensitive to this kind of behavior, so you will get my knee-jerk reaction to the mother/brother scenario. Make your own plans and leave. Fight the sympathy card your mother is going to use. Try to imagine what she's going to say and think of a response to it before you have the conversation about you leaving. Then GO. There is a difference between being a loving daughter and a loving doormat. I'm mad just thinking about your post.

If your mom is stable now, start looking for another place to live.

Donto bring up anything, just let her know that since she's better, you'll be moving as soon as you find a place.

Then, just call and visit when you like.

This sounds a lot like my mother. I have been unwilling to see this until lately. But I recently overheard her laughing and chatting with one of my toxic sisters. She tells me she is afraid of this sister (and with good reason) but her eyes light up when she calls. She also mutters things under her breath about me, calling me "selfish", "b***h"...and saying "she hates (toxic sister)". I have a place to go but need to organise work. Then she can rely on Toxic Sisters to look after her.

I am not surprised by this. My mother was the same and once when I was at my brother's I heard her ask how my sister in law was 'coping' with me being there. It told me that I had been discussed in a negative way. I felt very betrayed because I had confided in my mother about the issues I had had and it was obvious she had taken sides and it wasn't my side! As LBD took more of a hold this stuff got worse.
How old is your mother and how is her mental health? x

Exsister, I understand what you mean about having difficulty acknowledging this bad behaviour. It's very hard to accept that someone who should be loving is in fact not. I'm often struck by how often posters here use the very same phrases I have thought about my own mother. "Her eyes light up" is one such phrase. If there is a hint of anyone disagreeing with me about something, however trivial or even as a joke, she will wade in against me and stick the knife in. Another is " I'm treated more kindly by complete strangers". Sad but true. I think you're right to get your affairs in order and then ship out. You don't need to give any advance warning or explanation. In my experience, the more information you give, the more it is used against you. Good luck!

I can completely relate to the hurt you are experiencing and am so sorry for it. Causing difficulties between siblings is very unhealthy behavior by a parent. Caregiving is a thankless job; I found I needed to have a completely different kind of relationship than I had hoped for with my (narcissistic) mother. I don’t feel close or important to her and I’ve come to learn she loves herself first, so I will never be close or important to her. Because she is so self-indulgent and self-centered, gratitude just doesn’t happen much. I learned not to expect or even hope for it anymore. In short, the only person that is going to change is you; it took me over 50 years to get to the place I am now (I actually feel sorry for my mom-she is missing out on so much)-please don’t take as long as I did!!

You should be living your life without guilt or hurt. Be your own best friend-what advice would you give a friend in this situation? If you are able, I would suggest you find your own place and figure out the boundaries you need to protect your peace. For example, if my mother disparages my father, I cut off or strictly limit communication for a period of time (even though she lives in my spare home right next door). Work on yourself and your self-esteem so that you can live confidently in the life you deserve. I suspect you are good at heart and will step up when needed-but let that action build your self-esteem, give it to yourself rather than hoping someone else will recognize it. It’s hard work, it really is, but I am so happy that I did the work. I feel so much more free and happy. Life is marvelous when you don’t have this kind of weight on you!!!

Sending you peace.

I can completely relate to the hurt you are experiencing and am so sorry for it. Causing difficulties between siblings is very unhealthy behavior by a parent. Caregiving is a thankless job; I found I needed to have a completely different kind of relationship than I had hoped for with my (narcissistic) mother. I don’t feel close or important to her and I’ve come to learn she loves herself first, so I will never be close or important to her. Because she is so self-indulgent and self-centered, gratitude just doesn’t happen much. I learned not to expect or even hope for it anymore. In short, the only person that is going to change is you; it took me over 50 years to get to the place I am now (I actually feel sorry for my mom-she is missing out on so much)-please don’t take as long as I did!!

You should be living your life without guilt or hurt. Be your own best friend-what advice would you give a friend in this situation? If you are able, I would suggest you find your own place and figure out the boundaries you need to protect your peace. For example, if my mother disparages my father, I cut off or strictly limit communication for a period of time (even though she lives in my spare home right next door). Work on yourself and your self-esteem so that you can live confidently in the life you deserve. I suspect you are good at heart and will step up when needed-but let that action build your self-esteem, give it to yourself rather than hoping someone else will recognize it. It’s hard work, it really is, but I am so happy that I did the work. I feel so much more free and happy. Life is marvelous when you don’t have this kind of weight on you!!!

Sending you peace.

I’m so sorry to hear this for you. Perhaps you need to take sometime off. Meaning, leave the house for a few days, stay with a friend, relatives or check into hotel by yourself. By giving both of you a breathier it’ll give you both time to reflect and appreciate each other. Even if it’s for a day or two.

Hi NeedHelp2021
My mom has NDP and it was our "normal". Mom was the queen and we were her servants. We, meaning everyone around her. I am in my 60s now and mom has vascular dementia and lives in AL. Now, looking back, in some way I interpreted the abuse as love. Relationships didnt work for me for many years, not knowing why. You have the experience of being in a very unhealthy relationship, and it is no different if the abuser is your mom or husband. Now finally, I have learned to stay clear of anyone who is "mom like". I call the behaviors the "slap and tickle". These people gravitate to me and I shut it down immediately, to preserve myself. I married in my 40s to an emotionally healthy man who loves me with no conditions. No strings. No games. My life is so much more mature now, and moms dementia in some way has brought me closer to her. Her ego is gone, not on the defensive, less angry. And she knows that when I set a boundary there is no negotiating. That is the mature part. Good luck with whatever you decide. Yes pls let us know the outcome. You have received some excellent feedback.

Your mother is also mine! She talks to my siblings in another room. I can’t do anything right and I’m the dumbest of her children. My sister on the hand can’t do anything wrong. The sister who said I don’t want her when asked if she could live with her. Go figure! I try talking to my mom and I get your trying to kill me or I hear you and that’s the only answer. Consequently I don’t talk with her. Only about appointments she has.

Welcome to figuring out you are the scapegoat. Join the club. Try not to let it hurt you. It really isn’t personal.

Dear friend, I think every caregiver knows at some point what it feels like to be taken for granted and to see their relationship with their loved one go through changes that comes from too much contact and too little of what makes us feel good to be together. It's especially rough when it comes from a parent who we, in our hearts, believe should love us unconditionally. But Mom is obviously an imperfect human being, like all of us, and she slips into her own less than desirable behavior. We feel your hurt.

When I feel betrayed, shamed or humiliated, to me it is such a potent reminder how hurtful words can be and it strengthens my resolve to not hurt others in the same way. So a very negative experience can be brought forward in a very positive way. You sound like a very caring daughter who has truly loved and cared for your mother, and you feel such worry for her and pain when she suffers.

It does sound like new boundaries are in order, not to necessarily cut yourself off from family completely, but to make a distinction in yourself about how you choose to treat people even if others have not treated you well.

When someone behaves unfairly towards me, I turn back to the wise advice: "I am only responsible for my side of the street." This is all we can ever do, and beyond that we can say a prayer for others to find their way, and try to let it go. Ultimately, it would be good to have as best a relationship with Mom as possible as she ages. Maybe a change will allow you to appreciate each other again. I hope you can find a new balance and perhaps a better living arrangement. Take care.

I am so sorry...I can hear the hurt in your words.  Unfortunately, women are the assumed caregiver while the sons can do no wrong.  I have lived it my whole life. You didn't mention if you live there permanently or if you just moved in temporarily to help her through this surgery/health issue?  If she is healthy enough to fix her sheeps head soup and gossip on the phone, sounds like she is back on her feet and it's time for you to move on.  You have done your daughterly duties and can now go back to your own home and live your life.  Don't let her words define you.  Let her sons take care of their dear mother for a while.

I am sure that it hurts your feelings but it seems to me that this behavior is typical. I don't know why seniors often see their caretakers as their enemy. Perhaps they are projecting their pain and fear onto the caretaker. Roles often change and the caretaker takes the parental role and the senior is the child- sometimes the unruly child. And too, the senior often feels like their freedom is taken away and they have no purpose in life. And they are sick and/or in pain. And they are fearful. They feel they are a burden. They want to be independent but they can't manage it. It sounds like you are also upset about getting no help from your siblings. And that is sad and frustrating for you and your Mom. But, if you are going to keep your Mom in your home, you will have to make some changes in your attitude and assertiveness or you will continue to be profoundly unhappy. You can't change your siblings or your Mom but you can change yourself. Focus on yourself NOT your siblings. I wonder if you can join a physical support group when the wuhan virus clears up. Stay strong. You can turn this around.

When I went to my parent’s home and walked in the living room and was greeted with, “There’s laundry downstairs that needs to be finished”, not hello or any other form of greeting, and other family members were sitting on the sofa, it hit me like a ton of bricks. I was the servant and everyone else was a guest. I walked out and let them know by telephone that they could ask other members of the family to help with household chores. I have been taking a break ever since. It sounds to me as if you need to do the same.

I am compelled to share with you and believe me...
I feel for you like you would not believe. So sorry you are being scapegoated by your Mother. Mine passed this year and she was a classic "narcissist" and that does not mean she had a genetic variant that made her that way, she must have gone through all kinds of stuff and never told us. Is your mom very insecure and wants to be showered with outward words and gifts of appreciation, sent little cards and she wants to never be told what not to do. Mine cooked pork with the skin and all kinds of parts in a huge pot to make a jelly and the house stunk for days and I too lived upstairs. My mother would set me up and tell me to get ready for a funeral and then when I'd come down all dressed and ready she'd still be in her jammies and I would not know what was going on. I would yell at her for doing this to me. I would storm back up stairs and then she'd call my sister and tell her I was angry at her and that she should come and take me to the funeral (as I am without a car) we live in a huge city and this funeral was in the neighboring city. You mother is "triangulating"you and your brother, or maybe it is he who speaks poorly of you and you cannot confront them as they will tell you you are crazy...this is what this type does. They lack so much self esteem but put on airs that they are confidant. They will want to use you like a toy and enjoy driving you to tears or anger as that will give them an excuse to spread rumours about you based on your reactions. It hurts because you are almost forced to remain single (guests in my own apartment she would smear, go upstairs steal something of mine and tell me they stole it, causing me to doubt my friendships) ...at times I think that it was my own short term memory, as I am scattered but the scatteredness may have come from her doing things like this to me since childhood. My mother died in May of this year. I watched an old black and white movie with her in February that gave me a new perspective. In her day, there were styles of behaving that we don't have anymore. She was acting like the Mother in this movie, very commanding, very bossy, very "do as i say or else" if you stray in any way, or forget a thing, like a chore or an item at the store she will berate you, turn you inside out, to "teach you" because she "loves" you. You cannot explain to them any other way but you can learn to set your boundaries. My sister wanted me out of the house so she made sure she sided with my mother. My sister it was discovered wanted to be made the Executor of the Will, and she wanted to take me to task "smack talking" me to my old friend whom I had outgrown and stopped connecting with. Invented lies about me financially abusing my parents (I paid rent, did yard work, cleaned up their floor and shoveled snow). She said even worse about me and I will not get into it here. She now has a pretty $10k extra in her pocket, smeared me to the police with futher false allegations of "harrassment" for sending her emails which had neither any threats nor any foul language in them, asking her to clarify her behaviours and if she was in cahoots with my mother. No charges came through of course, she was just trying to humiliate me. She continues to try and humiliate me putting up cartoonized images of her and my youngest sister up on Facebook and marking it "big sis and little sis" when I am the oldest. I walked away. I was angry at the collusion, at the destruction of my being for their gain. They were getting back at me for perceived injuries when I was only 10 years old toward them. I suggest you not get paranoid like I did about them. Just go to a lawyer in preparation of what could be an attempt to smear you for financial gain. Get on board and make yourself the Executor, and go to a Bank to become a coexecutor so your brother can't contest it. I hope this helps.

I am sorry. It is so painful but try not to take to heart. Easy words I know but sadly this talk of the primary caregiver is common. We have had this with my mom with my sister who is primary caregiver taking the brunt of moms scorn. We know this and rally around to love and support her also making clear to mom we don’t like unkind words. But she has left for days at a time and it really gives mom clarity through her fog. Mom needs 24 care. It sounds like your mom does not and is doing well. If you can move out, probably best to create some distance to allow appreciation to come back. And give you a break. Take care

Wow. That's terrible! Your feelings of hurt and betrayal are legitimate.

It doesn't sound like your mother needs a high level of care or something only you can give.

Realize that as she gets older, she will eventually need that and things will only get worse.

If you quit this "job," it will give her and others an opportunity to find alternatives in a non-crisis situation. That's a good thing for everyone involved.

You (without realizing it) play a scapegoat role in your family. It's a common dynamic for a family to have one, and they rely on it. So you can expect them to get upset if you make changes that disrupt that dynamic. But that doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong! It just shows how invested they are in keeping you in that position.

You deserve so much better. I do hope you can make changes that give you a life with people who respect and value you.

I have a long story, but I will just post what I did, when faced with a situation similar to yours. I was the secondary POA for Healthcare. I went to an attorney, she suggested I revoke my secondary role for POA, leaving my sibling as sole POA for Healthcare. My narcissistic sibling and narcissistic father had plotted against me (again, a long story), but taking this step in March of 2020 solved the problem. I then started therapy online, in April, to manage my reactions to the reactions of my father and sibling, who were rageful and spiteful. My father passed away in July, but I am still dealing with sibling. It is extremely tough, but better than enduring the abuse they were sending my way.

Ight homie, I'm a 15 year old who would not take that crap. I'd be like "I'm finding you a new caregiver. Either treat me with respect or never speak to me again." Cut her out of your life dude. You don't deserve to be treated that way after everything you've done for her. If she doesn't appreciate you, leave her. Ù^Ú

Dear Needhelp2021,
Although my parents (they were in their 90’s) are no longer here, I could greatly relate with you because I struggled with the exact same scenario between my mom, me and my sister. As a Christian, I receive the Bible as complete truth and use God’s Word to lead me in my emotions. My mom and my sister had a sort of discussion constantly between themselves about me. I overheard it a few times and it hurt me very badly, as I did not originally realize it was going on. For my immediate family, it was only my parents and me and my sister. I confronted my mom about it, & she was very manipulative but calm. My sister was not capable of taking care of them..she would take advantage of them in various ways and she was verbally abusive and they were too vulnerable and needed much care. The Bible says in Ephesians 6:1-2 (see the request with the promise) “Honor your father and mother, so that it may be well with you, and that you may live long on the earth.” Honoring your mom does not mean you need to be her doormat and let her mistreat you. Put your boundaries down by letting her know that you don’t appreciate her talking about you in the way she does. Remind her that the reason you help her is because you love her. Chances are, she may not change her ways. But remember, she is accountable for her actions, & you are for yours. I did not live at my mom’s house.. I lived 3 miles away. But I had to do everything for my dad and her.. which included staying with her 24/7 during hospital stays, Dr. appointments, shopping for groceries, hair appointments...it was way more than a full time commitment.. & it took a toll on my marriage as well. My husband was understanding but it was hard on him. If possible, I would suggest that you pray about your situation. Ask the Lord to lead you with His wisdom. He promises if you ask Him for wisdom.. he will pour it onto you without reproach. (James 1:5
“But If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.”) My parents could not have done without my help. It was a long journey.. almost 10 years of being sole caregiver. In hindsight, I’m glad that I was able to help them and today I have great joy and immeasurable peace that I did help them. Long run, now that they’re gone, it doesn’t matter what she and my sister said about me. Another Scripture that comes to mind is also in Ephesians 6:12, which says “For our battle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.” So this is a spiritual battle to tear up the family... thru misunderstanding, jealousy, hurt..etc., the Lord will deal with this but you must do your part. I hope this helps you to know and understand and cope with your situation, of which I greatly relate. I am praying for you!! Many blessings for you to persevere!! Keep me posted on your situation! 💗

If your mother does not need your constant care, it's time to move out.

If you are living in your mother's house b/c you cannot afford to live alone, you need to find another job so you can afford to live independently. You might be putting up with her disrespect b/c you have gotten used to living in the home, presumably rent-free.

If she needs more care in the future, arrange for in-home care.
Your mother or you and your siblings will need to pay for home health care or learn if your mother qualifies for some Medicaid assistance or placement.

I have to comment on Marcia's reply

"NeedHelp- I think "she doesn't love me" is going a little too far. I am sure she loves you and I am also sure she realizes and appreciates your care."

Thank God I didn't have Narcissistic parents but I think an Uncle had the problem. I have read a lot on this forum about Narcissism and read up on it. What I have found is they don't know how to love. Its a neurological disorder that can't be cured. For one thing, they are self-centered and never wrong and don't think they have the problem, you do. They feel no empathy and are manipulators. They may have a favorite but they too are usually Narcissists and if not, they don't do anything for the parent anyway. The best thing is to walk away. And I have said it before, the child that stays is a certain personality. Actually the normal one with compassion. But, they are looking for the parent to finally except them and love them and feel by caring for them this will happen. It doesn't because the parent sees this as a weakness and preys on it. For this child they need to walk away.

I know if I had been raised by a Narcissistic parent that I would be that child caring for them and looking for love where there wasn't any. I loved my Dad. He worked hard and provided for his kids. But he had a problem with crossing a line from teasing to being nasty. And he knew how to push my buttons. He could be self-centered too at times. Mom waited on him hand and foot. I told my brothers that if Mom passed before him that I would not physically care for him or bring him into my home. I would do for him in his house but he would never live with me. He was their responsibility. My husband would not have allowed it anyway.

“I have told her time and time again if you’re not happy with me being here just say the word. “

I wouldn’t wait for her word. I’d make safe arrangements for her care elsewhere and give her the gift of your absence. The toxic atmosphere would be too much for anyone to handle.

I really don't know what to tell you other than hang in there. Keep telling her how you feel about what she is doing . Keep trying to show her that you love her and eventually she will see it. Meanwhile, ask her what it is that you're doing that bothers her and then try to work on it.

I am sorry to hear you are having this problem. I think it may be more common in older people than we expect. My sisters and I compared notes and discovered that Mom was telling each of us "stories" about the others. Often these were exaggerations or misconceptions about actual events, other times total fantasy.

We decided together that we would refuse to listen to these tales and that we would talk to each other about them to find the truth and take the sting out. This has worked fairly well. Knowing the truth, I can counter Mom's assertions with what I know to be true. We all do this as gently as we can, but we do firmly let Mom know that we will not listen to bad things about each other. The ultimate discussion-ender goes something like this "If you don't like what we are doing, tell us to stop coming over/calling/whatever and we will stop." We still get the complaining, but not so much, and it stops quickly.

We have guessed that this may be a side affect of her feeling helpless and incapable. Somehow it makes her feel better by focusing on someone else's problems, even if they are fake. I don't know if this is sound, but it seems really strange that Mom would start this kind of gossiping in her 80's and 90's when she never did it in her prime. I know it hurts, but try not to take it too much to heart. She may not really feel that way about you. Old minds can do funny things.

I think there may be two explanations for poor behaviour. Firstly, as Little Orchid says, it can be a response to feeling helpless and unhappy in later life, especially if this behaviour is out of character. Secondly, it can be a strengthening and exaggeration of behaviour traits that have been in place throughout life, as Waterspirit explains. I have read something similar about this before, from a respected medical source. If you're already dealing with a narcissistic person, the thought that they could get even worse is truly terrifying, and at this point it's then probably best to hand over to the health professionals to deal with things. They are not emotionally attached and are trained to deal with challenging behaviours, so may not find this so hurtful and personally damaging.

So sorry to hear this is happening to you. It’s a hideous and ungracious behavior to experience and witness. My mother did this for at least 50 of my 61 years until I finally had enough. Find ways to protect yourself and filter her behavior so it does not consume you.
love, J