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My situation is complicated so in order to keep this from turning into a book, I'm going to be very blunt and just state facts as they are. My mom is in the later stages of unspecified dementia. I'm her sole caregiver and she lives with me in the home that I own with my husband. She is legally married but her husband has been out of the picture for about 15 years. I don't have contact info for him and he likely wouldn't cooperate. He tried to claim her last year on his own taxes, just to give you an idea of the type of person he is. I know this only because we got a letter from the IRS saying we need to check to make sure we meet the criteria to claim her because someone else had tried to. She will not pass Medicaid 5 year lookback until mid June next year. We use her SS to pay for her care and to compensate ourselves for providing it, since I can't work and have to stay home with her. Can we get in trouble for that? Her SS goes into a joint account with me and it was set up before she had dementia. I have POA. She has recently had a sharp decline and this situation is no longer safe for her or for us. She has caused damage to our home, has fallen several times, is awake for days at a time, and impossible to legally contain. Gates don't work. The only methods that would keep her from wandering all night and hurting herself and/or causing flood/fire etc. are not things we can legally or ethically do, like lock her in a room or restrain her. I could go on and on but the point is, I can't do this anymore. She is leaving tomorrow for a 7-14 stay at a neuro psych hospital for evaluation and regulation of her meds. I'm terrified at the thought of her coming home after that. I don't know what to do. Can we refuse to pick her up? Since she lives here, do we need to legally evict her? Would we be in trouble for abandonment or elder abuse if we refuse to pick her up? If we wanted to try to start the medicaid application, what happens when she doesn't pass the lookback and gets a penalty? We can't wait. This isn't safe and I feel like I'm going to have a mental breakdown. I feel violent towards her and I'm worried I may lose control one day. If I tell someone that, can I get in trouble? Will it be taken as a threat against her? It isn't, not at all. I'm being honest. I'm not ok mentally/emotionally anymore and I just can't do this. What am I supposed to do to get her placed somewhere without getting into some kind of legal/criminal issue?

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Please find the funds to have a consultation with an Elder Care attorney on this matter, it's the only sane thing to do. If you place mom, you may have to pay out of pocket for her rent until Medicaid kicks in since she gifted you $40k 4.5 years ago. The attorney can guide you on your responsibilities to your mother since your state is a filial one. Also about you comingling her funds with yours and how to disentangle yourself from that situation.

Please don't mention feeling violent tendencies toward your mother bc such verbiage can work against you. We here understand and empathize with burn out and compassion fatigue, but not everyone does. Most people don't even understand dementia, never mind the toll it takes on the caregiver!

Ask the attorney about resigning your POA and having the state assume the care for your mother. See if it's legal to do that in Indiana. It's very important to get sound legal advice from a pro now rather than opinions from forum users on the internet. This is way too huge an issue to leave anything to chance....make sure you are armed with all the facts moving forward so you are fully protected.

I hope you can get mom placed at once, and that you'll be able to relax and take your own health and peace of mind back. Sending you a hug and a prayer for a good resolution to all of this chaos. My mother was 95 when she died in Feb from advanced dementia and heart issues. I know the horrible pain of all this, and she wasn't even living with me but in Memory Care Assisted Living. And it still tore me apart having to deal with her every day.
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ShannonEgen Nov 2022
Thank you for your response and advice. I know we'll need an attorney, there's just no way around it. There are only two certified elder law attorneys near us, so hopefully one of them will at least offer a free consultation or maybe a payment plan. I'm sorry for your loss of your mom and all you went through with her.
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Your post is heartbreaking. I’m truly sorry for your experience and can feel the absolute exhaustion. Yours is a real cautionary tale for so many who come to this site with wonderful intentions and ultimately find the reality of dementia caregiving to be far more than ever imaginable. I hope you’ll immediately tell the hospital social worker that you cannot and will not continue and to find mom a suitable new home, one where she’s safe and has professional care. And then I hope you’ll heal and find peace. You’ve been a blessing to your mother, now be one to yourself
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ShannonEgen Nov 2022
Thank you for the kind words and for understanding. It's not easy for me to admit my true feelings about all of this. I'm not proud of how I feel, but this is no longer safe for multiple reasons. My concern and confusion is surrounding the concept of just "dumping her at a hospital". Are there really no legal/criminal consequences for taking here there and then refusing to pick her up? I just find it hard to believe that I/we wouldn't be in some kind of trouble for that, especially knowing she can't get medicaid for another 6-8 months and that we've been spending (on her and as a "fee" for care/rent) her SS money. She has none saved up. I just feel like we're going to be liable for something somewhere. Am I wrong?
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Mom needs an atty to deal with her 2 situations: 40K transfer penalty and the absent but still legally married Husband. & as you are still her POA that means you need to find one & asap.

That she is going into a hospital for care is beyond great as those costs should be covered by Medicare and whatever she has for her secondary health insurance. You want her hospitalized on MediCARE for as long as feasible, as that pushes off her having to deal with filing for LTC Medicaid custodial care in a SNF or NH. Keep your ears open if it should be suggested that she moves out from being a “patient” in a hospital to becoming a “resident” in a skilled nursing care facility aka a NH. Patient in a hospital is MediCARE; resident is private pay, LTC insurance or Medicaid in a facility. You don’t want to trigger her filing for LTC Medicaid till there is a plan as per the new attorney as that 40K gifting will surface.

Im actually concerned abt the old husband…. If they are married, even though estranged:
1. his own financials & details on all property ownership will be needed for mom’s Medicaid filing. Medicaid is “at need” both medically and financially. What he has for income and assets will matter. I’m guessing he will not be at all willing to do this or will do major foot dragging to ever be responsive. Medicaid is very time sensitive so no response in 10-30 days, application closed for noncompliance. If he owns a home, as they are married, it will be subject to however y’all’s State does Medicaid estate recovery. Attorney needs to deal with this and legally segregate them.
AND
2. Hubs could himself file for a capture of some of her monthly income (her SS that goes into that bank account you have access to). They are still married, he is still a spouse. LTC Medicaid has a waiver that spouses can file for, it’s called CSRA or MMNA. Think of it as like old school alimony for the non-NH spouse. It’s $ the community spouse (CS in Medicaid speak) can file to have go to them to enable them to live in their community. Like if mom gets $1500 a mo SS and he can show he needs $1200 of that for his own living in the community costs, he gets $1200 and mom is left with $300 a mo at the most available as a required by Medicaid copay to the NH. NH will not exactly be thrilled to find that an originally anticipated $1500 copay from mom as a new resident is now going to be just $300.
To me, you want the attorney to decisively find a way to cleave off that old estranged hubs from being able to ever have any way or claim to your moms income. Otherwise he’s going to get involved every year when her SS payout changes. & mom will need his updated info every year for her own Medicaid LTC renewal. It will be beyond a buttrash to deal with him on this imo. Again atty need to deal,with this and decisively. Not a DIY.

Ya know “in theory” a NH that has Medicaid beds should not care what the applicants / new resident income & therefore their copay is. But that’s in-my-experience not what happens. My mom had 2 mo income’s and was right below the LTC Medicaid income maximum. NHs I looked at were positively giddy over moms income as it would mean a nice guaranteed $$$ copay. Their gonna be pissed to find they have to deal with a CS who can draw off $$$ every month from a residents income.
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SamTheManager Nov 2022
Don't you think this would qualify as abandonment? Like, the husband has been gone for so many years and they tried to get in touch with him to serve him papers and can't find him? They will likely need to make a good faith attempt to reach him, well documented and if they can't do that, they likely can have a divorce proceeding begin. It might go quite quickly if the entirety of the circumstances are made known to the relevant authorities. People can't be allowed to hold other people's lives up by moving away and not making contact for years and years.
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I wouldn't pick her up and take her back home at this point, it is too much for you to handle. I think the stress level you are experiencing at this point overrides any concern about Medicaid penalties. Please don't worry about "abandonment or neglect charges", your very rightful defense is her and your safety. Her care is beyond what you can handle. You need to tell the social workers this and refuse to take her home. You will not get in trouble, you can't be required to do what you cannot safely do, there will be no criminal liability. As far as Medicaid, yes it is possible there may be a penalty, but it will work out, this concern pales in comparison to the concern I would have if you took mother home again. I will tell you, I once had the same exact worries as you, but once my father was placed in a home, I was able to sleep again. I had similar worries as we also shared finances and a bank account, but they pushed the Medicaid through. You need to be able to work to earn a living to support yourself, and taking care of mother and using her SS check is just not enough. Please, refuse to take her home. Talk to the social workers and let them know it is just not safe anymore. Let them find a NH that will take her under Medicaid pending, and let the chips fall where they may. You can deal with Medicaid later if they impose a penalty. Your first priority is you and your mother's safety.
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ShannonEgen Nov 2022
Thank you for the thoughtful reply, and I truly appreciate it and agree with everything you're saying. My worry is, as far as Medicaid penalty, what happens when all of this gets going? Let's say she's in a facility and then once they impose the penalty, then what? Won't they just kick her out for inability to pay? What about the fact that she gifted that money to me? Can't they try to make me pay it back? I can't! We don't have it! I'm so terrified of legal issues/money issues that will be even worse than what we're anticipating if we try for Medicaid now.
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Shannon, so very sorry for your loss. Your mother is free of the torment that is dementia now. I wish you peace and healing now as you move forward in the days ahead
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ShannonEgen Nov 2022
Thank you, I appreciate it. I didn't see this coming, not this soon.
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Shannon, you really need to have her placed in a nursing home and not worry about the Medicaid right now. Apply for Medicaid for her, and if a penalty is imposed or there is a denial, then you can appeal at that time, but in the meantime your mother will be taken care of and you can rest at home. Once she is in the facility, they cannot discharge her to the streets if her life would be in danger. The NH may bill you at that point, and you may have to see a lawyer to advise the best course of action (maybe bankruptcy), but I think that is a better choice than dealing with what you are dealing with now. I'm sorry you picked her up from the hospital, you should have refused and had them send her to a nursing home.
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sp19690 Nov 2022
I agree. I don't think poster can keep.mom until June. Besides I think they would pro rate the money given during the look back anyway. But she needs a lawyer who specializes in this not a bunch if random people offering opinions which may or may not be accurate.
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Thank you everyone, I appreciate all of the help and support very much. I'm sorry for not replying directly to the last few people who have commented. I'm so tired and overwhelmed, I don't have the mental energy for a lot of typing right now. Based on the way my mom has been since coming home from the neuro psych hospital, she may actually qualify for hospice. When I take her to her doctor appointment on Tuesday, I'm going to bring it up to see if her doctor agrees and will give us a referral. If that's the case and I can get them to come here to help out a few times a week, and offer respite now and then, we may be able to just keep her here at home. I don't know, we'll see. My head is spinning from all of the research I've been doing and all of the phone calls I've been making. I'm going to take a break from all of it until Monday or Tuesday. Thank you again to everyone for your help.
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A lot happened very quickly in the days after my mom was discharged from the hospital on Thursday last week. She began declining very rapidly and we called an ambulance for her Sunday night after she fell and hit her head. I had gotten her in bed and gave her her meds, then about 20-30 minutes later my husband and I heard her yelling and crying. I went to her room and found her on the floor, as had been the case so many times recently. Her CT scan was normal but her blood work was not. She was admitted and on Wednesday afternoon she was moved to a hospice facility. I went to visit her Wednesday evening and spent a couple of hours there, talking to her even though she couldn't respond. I got a call at 1am today that she had just passed. I'm only writing this here because I know that some of you were wanting to hear updates about what the lawyer said after the consultation on Dec. 7th. I'm going to keep that appointment and now use it to ask questions such as, do I need to track down and try to contact my mom's husband to notify him, since I'm the executor of her estate? Anyone who has been following along knows there is no estate, but I want to make sure I'm doing everything that I'm legally supposed to do. I'm in total shock right now and having a hard time processing all of this. I truly believe something happened while my mom was in the neuro psych facility that lead to this sudden change, because it all happened so fast after she came home and it just doesn't make any sense to me. She had bruises on her head when we picked her up. They were old ones too, they were green. The hospital never told us anything happened, we just saw them when she was discharged and when we asked, we were told that whatever happened wasn't witnessed and they couldn't explain the bruising. I'm glad that my mom isn't suffering anymore from the nightmare that dementia is, but I just want her back. I can't believe any of this has happened.
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Shannon, I am so sorry for your loss. May The Lord give you strength, peace and comfort during this new season.

Praise The Lord that your mom has been released from her pain and suffering.
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ShannonEgen Nov 2022
Thank you, I'm thankful it's over for her. It had been so awful.
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Shannon,
I’m so sorry about your mom.
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ShannonEgen Nov 2022
Thank you.
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