Is it normal for ambulance guys to make fun of one's belongings, and trash one's bedroom, in order to evacuate someone who fell?

No, file a complaint!

You only need to post a question once then be patient.

Or perhaps this is an April Fool?

Big question and we may not get an honest answer -- were the people coming into a hoarding situation where things had to be cleared to attend to the patient? To tell the truth, I would be ashamed if EMTs saw my mother's bedroom right now. It would fail every safety check, since she has blankets on the floor and clutter all about. I wouldn't blame an EMT at all if he/she chewed me out for the condition of the room. They wouldn't know how I had tried and how I felt ashamed of the condition. They would just know what they saw.

(a naked Michael Jackson doll??? the mind reels!)....I don't know who you would complain to, but they didn't behave very professionally at all! The ambulance guys that came to my mothers house half a dozen times were very calm, professional, and helpful. I would say something, definitely.

sorry for the multiple posts, the site is very slow for me and did not respond when I clicked the post button initially. and NO this is NOT an April Fool.

Mom may be a packrat, but she is not a hoarder. Yes we do have a lot of clutter -- we both enjoy books; we get involved in activities that generate memorabilia, paper and doodads, all of which we like to have around. Yes there was a filing box in the hall that I did not get to deal with while Mom was in the hospital, because I was too busy doing dishes and laundry and other things. (two out of three boxes was an accomplishment) And yes, fragile items should not be on or near the floor -- then again, clowns with big feet shouldn't be kicking stuff around without paying attention.

In my books, whoever makes the mess should clean it up. However I wouldn't want any of these clowns back in our house again -- even if they learn to say sorry.

If the home was in disarray to the point of being unsafe, filing the complaint might be the least of your concerns. I would think that EMT's are mandatory reporters of elder abuse, unsafe living conditions, etc.

rwarren, if it took all day to clear off the top of the bed, then the house is in a serious hoarding condition. Especially since you wrote "very little effort was made to help me clear the hall completely of stuff, in order to get the carrier down the hall." If there is an elder in the home, why on earth have things sitting in the hallway? That's an accident waiting to happen.

Now what about the 3 hours to get to your home.... do you live way out in a rural area where the nearest ambulance service is 200 miles away, or did the weather play a part in the time?

What caught my attention, and I don't wish to be rude here, you mainly wrote in detail about the house and its content. How about why did your Mom fall? What is her age and medical issues? Does she use a cane or a walker? Does she live with you or you with her? Has she fallen before? Often or rarely?

As for the EMT's joking around. In all the 911 calls I had to make for my parents, not once were any of them unprofessional.

They were definitely rude and insensitive, which should be brought to someone's attention.
As for the stuff... I suppose it is asking a bit much to expect someone in crisis mode to be prepared, but they really couldn't be expected to wait half an hour while the hallway was cleared and the furniture rearranged, and although they might have been big strapping men it isn't in their job description to move it for you.

You, and everyone reading this thread, need to learn from this lesson and be better prepared going forward. If there is someone in your house that may need to be carried out they must to be in a room that makes it possible, clutter, stairs, narrow doorways are all barriers to care and could waste precious minutes in a real emergency.
And although everyone keeps talking about big men coming to help lift someone off the floor or carry them off to hospital, you must know that EMS employs lots of women, sometimes even two women working together, so you can't rely on their brute strength to get you through.

I have the same questions as FF - why was there so much stuff that clearing it was an issue? Your reference to an end table that hasn't been moved in 50 years, lots of dust bunnies, hamper/footstool in a doorway ...this tells me that the situation in the house lent itself to the necessity of the EMTs moving stuff in order to get to your mother, and that the specific room wasn't easily accessible, inferring to me that the paramedics had to move some of the stuff to get in.

Providing a clear pathway is far more important than doing dishes or laundry.

It's also been my experience that EMTs are very, very professional, as well as courteous, considerate and helpful. And they have to go into often unsafe situations and deal with a wide variety of patients. I admire them for their professionalism and dedication.

You wouldn't be the only one living in an overly cluttered house, but it's better to recognize the situation in the house than blame EMTs for mistreating some of your possessions. Let this be a lessons learned and focus on providing clear pathways in the event your mother falls again. CWillie's advice is insightful.

If you want to file a complaint, think about what would happen if they report you to APS and you're visited with a mandate to clean up the house and get rid of all the extra clutter. Frankly, I would suspect that the EMTs may already have done something like this, because the clutter could have contributed to your mother's fall, and the dust bunny accumulation would affect her respiratory system.

I'm sure they're mandated reporters, and if they see an unsafe situation, they're probably obligated to do something about it, which would likely mean a report to APS.

And BTW, why did you post this same question 5 times? Even if it doesn't post right away, wait a minute or two, but 5 times is really overkill.

CWillie, good points about being prepared, and that applies to anyone of any age.

If, in your book who ever made the mess needs to clean in up - I'd take a page from your own book and get to work. EMTs are in the business of saving lives not clearing pathways to have to do so. I imagine they see and deal with a lot in their job and right or wrong get a bit frustrated. From what you discribe your house was in an unsafe condition for having a senior at risk living there. What if there had been a fire? No time for moving boxes and tables - and naked dolls from the floor. When you are living alone and/or with completely functioning adults living with clutter is your business. When you bring a vulnerable senior to live with you and one that may need emergency assistance it ceases to be so. I'm sorry if I sound harsh but I kinda think a reality check is in order here. Expecting EMTs to save lives is in line - expecting them to tidy up afterwards is a bit much - jmho. Sorry.

Movie reference for today. This reminds me of a scene in the movie Backdraft. Someone parks their BMW in front of a fire hydrant and the firemen break both side windows to pass the hose thru the car...

How Mom fell: She was on her way back from the bathroom and was sitting on the bed to go back to sleep. She missed the bed and fell on the floor, hitting her elbow on the bed frame. She was laying between the bed, a bookcase, and the doorway. She did not slip on the mat, though I did pull it out of the way when trying to help her up.

For those of you not following the soap opera of Mom and me: I have lived with her my entire life, and always in this house, a small bungalow. Mom was in the hospital for 25 days in Feb and March, and then another 13 days in a convalescent home. At the hospital and home, she was using a walker. Since coming home, Mom has been waffling about getting a walker and/or cane, preferring instead to go back to her old ways of hanging onto everything and me as she shuffles around. (This was part of the reason she went to the hospital in the first place. The hospital shunted her off to the home to focus on her mobility; at the home, the physio just gave her a few exercises to do in her room. Mom had to depart in a big hurry after being attacked twice.) She will not go out to the place that sells medical devices; she will not have anyone come to the home to evaluate her needs. Ditto for a new physio.

While Mom was away I was cleaning up. I anticipated she would come home with a walker, so every day I was clearing the hall, the living room, and a bit in her room, so there would be room for it. In between all this I did other housework, daily visits to the hospital and home, looked for a job (unsuccessfully), had major depressive episodes, and tried to take a night class but had to drop out. This has left me physically and emotionally exhausted, bordering on suicidal. Plus I fell three times and injured myself -- twice on icy streets, once in the subway.

We live in a large city with hospital(s) only a few minutes away. Mom asked point blank why it took the clowns 3 hours to show up, and they were non-committal with an answer. Based on the dispatcher's questions, I suspect: She was fully alert, not bleeding, old, and spoke English. Therefore it was not considered a priority.

I have found an ombudsman email for the ambulance service, and I asked a general question. On their website it talks about politeness and discretion towards "users". At least Mom falls into the free service category -- or she should.

I might point out that it's not that mom speaks English that might have delayed the response time. It's the fact that it wasn't a medical emergency. She hadn't had a heart attack or stroke. She wasn't bleeding and her airway wasn't obstructed.

Not to compare your mom to a cat, but it's like a cat up a tree vs a fire.

Yes, you should complain about he crass words...not about the moved furniture.

Quite frankly and I am going to be quite frank I have downsized twice now I moved a one bedroom flat into an already furnished 3 bed house and have now moved all of that into a two bed apartment and yes it is a pain in the rear yes it takes damned hard work and no it can't be done in a day but it can be done. And you don't have to leave a mess. You both clearly have hoarding tendencies about which you are in denial.

It is time to prioritise safety over all else safety in terms of walkways and you must not allow your Mum to be able to grab whatever is to hand, you need rails that are properly installed, you cannot have mats you need clear floors. Doorways should ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be clear in preparation for quick access and egress - this is basic stuff as for dust bunnies how can you not have moved a table for 50 years? You seem to be lacking basic housekeeping skills. I am 63 and I still spring clean not the whole house in spring as my parents did but I do one room from top to bottom every month as well as dusting and hoovering at least once a week (usually daily).

Let me address the points you made

'She was on her way back from the bathroom and was sitting on the bed to go back to sleep. She missed the bed and fell on the floor, hitting her elbow on the bed frame. She was laying between the bed, a bookcase, and the doorway. She did not slip on the mat, though I did pull it out of the way when trying to help her up.'

Get a commode in the bedroom for nighttime, pull up the mat and don't put it back either move the bookcase or the bed or do some serious decluttering

'I have lived with her my entire life, and always in this house, a small bungalow'

You should, by now, have worked out that keeping a small space clean and tidy is critical

'Mom was in the hospital for 25 days in Feb and March, and then another 13 days in a convalescent home. At the hospital and home, she was using a walker.
Since coming home, Mom has been waffling about getting a walker and/or cane, preferring instead to go back to her old ways of hanging onto everything and me as she shuffles around. '

Why are you allowing her to waffle buy a walker on line - problem sorted - 38 days is a long time not to get the bungalow sorted if as you say you are not hoarders

'The hospital shunted her off to the home to focus on her mobility; at the home, the physio just gave her a few exercises to do in her room. Mom had to depart in a big hurry after being attacked twice. '

You should be addressing these attacks with an elderly attorney if no resonable explanation is being given

'She will not go out to the place that sells medical devices; she will not have anyone come to the home to evaluate her needs. Ditto for a new physio.'

See above buy the walker and present her with a fait accomplish. Have the physic come to the home to assess your needs - if she uses you as her walker you are destined for ill health from the next fall she has and it could be very very serious

'While Mom was away I was cleaning up. I anticipated she would come home with a walker, so every day I was clearing the hall, the living room, and a bit in her room, so there would be room for it. '

This should have been done a long time ago and not be a knee jerk reaction to an event

'In between all this I did other housework, daily visits to the hospital and home, looked for a job (unsuccessfully), had major depressive episodes, and tried to take a night class but had to drop out. This has left me physically and emotionally exhausted, bordering on suicidal. '

You need to get help/ medical intervention sooner rather than later - you are not coping - this is not a criticism just a statement of fact from the information you have presented us with

'Based on the dispatcher's questions, I suspect: She was fully alert, not bleeding, old, and spoke English'

Fully alert therefore life no threatened
Not bleeding therefore unlikely to bleed out
Spoke English so they could tell the information they were being given was accurate

It was a priority just not a high one, I do agree though that while age should not enter into the criteria it very often does.

Finally if you have cleaned for 2 months and you still don't have clear access or egress then you do have hoarding issues regardless of whether you like that comment or not

I can not explain the 3 hour delay. Did you repeat the call? There can be a lot of things going on at the same time.
It is never acceptable to behave unprofessionally in someone's home whatever the condition. They can deal with any reporting at a later time. certainly complain about that.
How did you expect them to get Mom out if they could not get stretcher in?
As far as the walker and cane are concerned call mom's drys office and request orders for any medical equipment she needs also PT or home care. On Medicare she will qualify for the equipment to be delivered to the home and home visit's from the PT.
While in the NH did Mom refuse to go to the gym and use equipment there? If she did that is the reason for room exercises. If you get PT you do have to put some effort into the therapy yourself, it is not something that is done for you.
You can call your local area on aging office and request help for Mom. They will come out and make an assessment which neither of you may not like but that's the only way to get help.
In a big city there are usually many sources for help in your situation

I know this is slightly off thread but can I just mention that not only is keeping a clean and tidy home where an elderly person lives essential for their wellbeing it is also an incredible stress reliever for the carer. Ah yes I hear you say if only.....but am absolutely serious. It is well documented that clean tidy homes help keep people feeling calmer than untidy and/or dirty ones. In fact the latter can breed a mental illness which keeps the person in that mode just as some OCD can result of cleanliness of course. I am not obsessive (says me who has a bright shiny new hob which is gas on glass and I just lurve cleaning it till it gleams...yeah OK I am sad) but I do try and keep everything in order.

Of course getting it in order takes time but one room at a time and then KEEP IT THAT WAY. Unless you live in a mansion you can do one room a month and it will be sorted for even large houses within a year. Now I have my place super dooper clean and tidy, it is relaxing and I can whisk round it in was less time than I could before. I keep my kitchen up together all the time - it is the focal point for me of cleanliness, the bathroom I clean after every shower so every day and I use the towels I dried mum with to dry the shower so it is not just clean but also streak free. Toilets I do every day or every two days with a toilet cleaner and brush and then I clean the floors twice a week more if we have accidents. I make Mums bed every morning and hoover twice a week and wet dust once a week (I have a hoover attachment which will get dry dust so I use that on the furniture when I hoover)

Because the apartment is small I take the trash out every day and clean the bin with a wet wipe. I clean the windows every other week - more if I need to but thats only when we have birds that aim rather too well at the windows!

So you see now it IS clean and tidy it is easy to keep clean and tidy and I actually have more time than I did before - although it was hell getting it that way. I happily own up to that one and I was never the tidy one but because Mum needs for me to be tidy for her to be safe there is no choice.

I have no place to keep her wheelchair or the hoover so I keep them in the hall at night and during the day I pop them back into Mums bedroom - job done all accesses and egresses clear save for the main door at night but as I would need to use the wheelchair to get her out that is the best place for it.

My mother has hoarding issues, so I can speak to this some. Rwarren, your posts really do imply this is an issue for your home. It's hard when you grow up with it because the normal you know is not the normal the rest of the world knows. People also approach it with the sensitivity of an elephant. Hoarding is also a difficult topic because of these sensational TV shows that show only extreme cases which makes it difficult for milder cases to get treated seriously and respectfully.

Rwarren, I'd encourage you to seek some therapy support because dealing with a caregiving situation, a cluttered/hoarded environment, and your own significant health problems is a Big Deal. Make your complaint about the ambulance guys - who were clearly unprofessional - and move on to taking your own needs seriously. It's so easy to let everything else be the crisis while you as the caregiver just sinks farther down.

Rwarren you have done the best you can with a bad situation. And, it is finally falling apart for you and your mom. Uncluttering is hard at best when you are well. Normally when professionals find something very odd or funny in a patient care situation, they talk about it later amongst themselves, maybe in the staff room if they really just have to vent right away, but they were in your house without an easy retreat like that. Had they been called in before for the same thing? And, no disrespect meant, but just how prominent was the naked Michael Jackson? They may have felt absolutely floored, like "now we've seen it all..." especially if they were a little new at their jobs. I can guarantee you they will see stranger things eventually. Of course, he should not have been blocking the door, but of course, they did not need to make a big deal of it.

Look. My mom's house and mine could be class 1 hoarding; yours is 2 or maybe 3 at least. And end table not moved or dusted behind in 50 years is serious business. That also means rugs have not been vacuumed or changed, and degree of dust and unavoidable dirt in a living space is not healthy either. But you have lived with it forever so it seems relatively normal. Look at the pictures here: hoardingcleanup website- they treat the subject respectfully. And you absolutely must not let her revert to her old habits that caused the problems in the first place, like hanging on to furniture and walls to get around. Reverting to old habits is easy, easy to do, especially in an environment that is conducive to it. I know she is your mom and it is hard to take over as the responsible adult, but I suspect that is what the situation calls for now.

Get help, both practical and emotional. You and your mom deserve a far better life than you have. The cookie press and the figurine are absolutely trivial in the greater scheme of things. They were boxed up - for what? for whom? If the house caught on fire, would you have needed to rescue them? No, of course not. Like most hoarders, the preservation of stuff - granted, even good, treasured stuff - can overwhelm the needs for space, simplicity, and cleanliness. People are more important than stuff. People are WAY more important than stuff. I thank God for Goodwill and Savers and all the places that take any kind of potentially useful stuff - that way I can at least imagine an up side to giving up my stuff, that someone else can use or enjoy it, and it might even be true!

Let this episode give you perspective on just how rough your situation really is, and impetus to make whatever changes you can, with whatever help you can get.
Check with Area Agency on Aging, google professional organizers in your town, do not be ashamed to get help with a common problem with deep psychological roots. This can be turned around - not easy, but it can be done.

I'm back -- my account was accidentally deleted and I am slowly catching up.

@Phoenix and @Veronica: The convalescent home was under a flu quarantine during Mom's entire stay. Patients were not allowed to leave the floor, and the physio's office and equipment were on another floor.

@vstefans: This was a first-time call to 911 for a fall. After 1 hour, and Mom reporting more pains, I called back with an update.

@multiple: Re speaking English: Please be aware that we live in an area where discrimination against anglophones is very common. (And no we have no interest in moving.) sometimes it is overt and sometimes it is more subtle. When there is no obvious explanation for actions / inactions, sometimes you gotta wonder.... And yes I do speak French (more than Mom), but I do not want to continuously translate everything back and forth, especially of a medical nature where I don't have all the vocabulary and risk getting something wrong. Particularly when, by law, we are entitled to service in English.

Re medicare: it doesn't cover medical devices nor things like banisters, though there is a partial income tax credit available. Antyhing I would buy on my own would be (a) unsuitable and (b) nonrefundable. (When you've been out of work for 10 months, and EI ran out in December, you watch your nickels carefully.)

And I've had the therapy: You sit in a room with a total stranger and cry for an hour, and you get an appointment for the next week to do it all over again. Waste of time and money, makes me feel even worse about myself. All I need is a job (a real job in my field) and some real friends, so I can finally get my life back.

RIGHT Lets be practical here. You have a house that needs sorting out and really are finding it impossible. If you don't want to get rid of anything and I understand that (to a degree) then you have to organise it so that it is not dangerous. No questions you do have to clear entrance and egress but that may not be that easy so lets start the easy way.

Collect some stout cardboard boxes from local stores and start packing away the things that you have not used in over a year.

I would start with the kitchen and the toilet purely because they are places where germs can harbour and from where cross infection can occur very easily.

Check your cupboards and throw out food that is out of date. No question - you cannot eat it with any degree of confidence in its safety so clear it out. Then it is down to clearing out the rubbish and by that I mean cartons bags etc that do collect, be they on tops, floor in cupboards in other bags or wherever they are and throw them out. Food is a prime source for infestation as well as contamination so get rid.

Then arm yourself with hot water soap and a lot of cleaning cloths and start the cleaning process one cupboard at a time take everything out clean the cupboard inside and out, dry the cupboard thoroughly then put the stuff back tidily and in an organised format. Do one cupboard at a time until they are all done, by which time you will have found more to throw away or pack - remember this rule if you haven't used it in a year pack it and write on the side of the box what you put in it and the date. They will still be there but just packed properly. once you have the kitchen and the toilet clean then pick a room and start on cleaning it. Again pack what you haven't used in a year and stack these boxes against a wall in a room where this is safe - NOT YOUR MOTHERS BEDROOM whatever you do don't store it there - she will grab for it somewhen and the whole lot will come down.

Once everything is packed away and you have scrubbed and cleaned and opened windows and let fresh air in then sit back and be very pleased with yourself for getting part of the way there. You still have everything but it is packed and neat and tidy.

You will at some point have to acknowledge that you cannot keep everything in such a small place but that is when you have to address the next bit - for now get the rooms organised to look as they should

RW, I'm trying to place where you are living that there is an anti francophone bias, are you in Quebec?

Phoenix, you are a cleaning diva, please don't ever visit my house and look in the cupboards, I'm afraid they would never stand up to your scrutiny!! I do agree though that the best way to make a change is one box, one cupboard, one drawer at a time, sometimes when we look at the whole task it seems too overwhelming to even begin. It may take a long time, but each positive step forward helps motivate the next one.

Sorry, meant to say anti anglophone bias...

Phoenix would probably pass out if she came to my house during pre-gardening season in a year when little seedlings are on every warm surface and under every light!

Phoenix, if you come to America to visit, you'll have to give us ample time to clean our houses - I can't even begin to imagine having your level of energy - wish I did have it, though.

Oi you lot now just behave! I am in the very enviable position of having just moved and I was determined that there would be a place for everything and everything in its place. I currently have seedlings on all the window sills and I made up 3 huge hanging baskets this week so Mum didn't whinge - Obviously I used the wrong colours and the wrong plants and they are too big but hey they are done and hanging and growing. My seedlings aren't anything special just herbs that I can grow on the patio. All I need to do is find a large hexagonal herb planter and I am sorted.

I was serious though, one bit at a time.... it cannot take more than 10 minutes to empty a drawer clean it and decide what is to pack using the one year rule then put the stuff back. I am so sad.... I actually enjoy doing it too, so no need to do it before I come we can do it together! All you need is boxes pens and some old newspapers for the fragile stuff for the packing and hot water and soap for the cleaning oh and cloths of course!

Funny to me, bringing up memories! I used to move and enjoy it because everything got cleaned, even the move-out clean leaving the house/apt. ready to move-in. After a big earthquake, I was on the phone in the kitchen, near the stove I was cleaning. After one hour, that stove was detailed better than a new one.

It's not normal to have to clear a path in a home to access a patient. Most of the responses here are stating or hinting you have a hoarding issue. It sounds unsafe, and unsanitary. Get help if it is truly an emotional issue.

Phoenix, I have to admit that after I read the post where you described your cleaning routine I was appalled at my own lack of industry. I spent most of the next morning cleaning out closets (pulling everything off the floors and doing a thorough dusting), dusting ceilings with my wall brush, and polishing a couple of items that hadn't been polished in years. My house is much cleaner now, and I have you to thank!

Ha.. I read Phoenix's post and said "to each his own".. Lol

Well know you now what to do with the rest of your life Phoenix after Mum has passed.
You will be touring the US and other countrys helping A/C members organize their homes. Don't forget the UK I bet CM could use some help right now.

Smiles at you all...gosh I love you all......I just have found that a clean tidy sweet smelling house makes ME feel better and gawd knows I need something to make me feel better!