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Medication management not end of life care . They did not do a swallow assessment on him , he was alert and responsive , he had eaten breakfast that morning no problem before being admitted for pain control
On the other post Margaret, I think, explained how Hospice works in other countries. Remember, Margaret is from Australia.
"Eileen, you say you “live in Europe... not everyone lives in USA . Our hospice offers respite and pain management too”. I don’t live in the USA, but in Australia, and we don’t use the term ‘hospice’ at all. Our ‘palliative care’ is much the same as hospice, it’s for ‘end of life care’. It sounds as though your ‘hospice’ is much the same as a respite nursing home. It was originally in Europe the term for convent-run care for abandoned babies and dying elders. ‘Eileen’ is normally an Anglo/ Irish name.
If you join a website based in another country, you have to learn the terms. If you are indeed a RN (or whatever the local term is), you could /should have made your expectations to the local facility a lot clearer, and intervened a lot quicker."
In the U.S. Hospice does not take healthy people. They do not provide respite care for otherwise healthy patients. They ONLY provide end of life care for patients who have been deemed within the last 6 months of their life with a terminal illness. Their responsibility is to provide comfort care only. In the US, in most cases you cannot even qualify for hospice care unless you are actively dying.
When someone comes to the forum and states that hospice care is responsible for the death of a loved one - for many of us - it is a difficult pill to swallow - because hospice care is for the sole purpose of easing someone terminal into death. They are not the cause of death. They are there to ease the way.
Often - at least with the U.S. version of hospice - when someone says that hospice killed their loved one - it is because they had not come to terms with the fact that their family member was already actively dying. Hospice care removes all CURATIVE medications and only provides COMFORT medications. So the terminal illness is no longer treated. Which does hasten death - yes.
The other thing with end of life - and my mother and I were just literally talking about this today is how fast it seems to happen once it starts to happen. It seems to come out of nowhere and happen quickly once it starts to go downhill. Which - in my opinion - is a blessing. My father was very ill - and when hospice came in - he was given 6 months. He lived 2 weeks. Blessedly - he was not yet in any great pain and he died peacefully. Hospice was a great comfort to him and to our family.
I am truly sorry for your loss. And I do not mean to question or belittle - but I'm curious as to why hospice was necessary for medication management for an otherwise healthy person? And how you feel they starved him to death if he was healthy enough to eat? My father couldn't eat - he had no appetite -even when offered his favorite foods. He could still swallow as well. But he was actively dying - he was too sick to want to eat. Hospice - at least here - does not manage medication - at least not the curative kind. They only manage the comfort medications.
They are not there to get the patient well and send them home.
If you are "an RGN with 20 years experience so I know my fdcts" then why did you agree to hospice in the first place if dad was fine? You neglected to say in both of your posts on this subject.
Nobody is being cheeky or hateful to you. If you post on a forum, you'll get comments. Some you'll like and some you won't. Very few will agree with you about being "starved to death" after eating breakfast or within 7 days of not being fed.
Why not take your issue up with an attorney who can guide you accordingly instead of a bunch of caregivers who have heard how "hospice killed my loved one" a thousand times before. Both of my parents died under hospice care, but their diseases killed them, not "hospice". Had I thought such a thing, I'd have fired hospice immediately and called an ambulance to take them to the hospital for treatment. That's always an option since hospice is not a prison sentence.
I would agree with you , he died 7 days later without water or food , yes he was starved to death and dehydrated , his swallow was perfect , I sm an RGN with 20 years experience so I know my fdcts , there is no need to be cheeky and hateful to me at such a sensitive time . If you have nothing nice to say please say nothing , god bless you
My dad entered hospice for medication management, not end of life care. Should this have happened? - AgingCare.com
The above was Eileen's first post to us.
Eileen, It was you who came to the Forum. You gave us no information in your post as regards your living in another country where Hospice is meant to be respite and pain control rather than end of life care (I never heard of such). If you wanted a swallow eval or if your father did or his proxy did that was for you to take up with the MDs. Your father had an not amputated necrotic toe, you tell us. He likely died of Sepsis and organ shut down more than an inability to swallow, because I have never heard of Hospice in any country who refuses food to someone who can and who wishes to eat. We are all very sorry here, but you came to this Forum claiming that the Hospice purposely killed your father. I don't believe that. And if you come here you will get a variety of responses. You are free to accept what you like and kick the rest to the curb, but you will not stop our responding to you. If you don't wish response it is perhaps best not to post. If you wish responses then giving us the information we need by filling in your profile will be greatly appreciated.
We on Forum often get angry responses about Hospice. Often people in the initial stages of grief choose to blame others for death. That usually is doctors and nurses and hospitals and ecfs and rehabs and Hospices. I know you know that as an RN.
I wish you the very best. I wish you healing. As I told you, I started nursing before we got Hospice from "across the pond". I witnessed death by shrieks and screams that I can still hear today. It was torment in my early career in Chicago. I thank all the powers that be for the wonder of good hospice care. I only wish that corporate greed was not now invading Hospice care in the USA.
Please take care and get counseling help for your grieving if you feel it might help you.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
On the other post Margaret, I think, explained how Hospice works in other countries. Remember, Margaret is from Australia.
"Eileen, you say you “live in Europe... not everyone lives in USA . Our hospice offers respite and pain management too”. I don’t live in the USA, but in Australia, and we don’t use the term ‘hospice’ at all. Our ‘palliative care’ is much the same as hospice, it’s for ‘end of life care’. It sounds as though your ‘hospice’ is much the same as a respite nursing home. It was originally in Europe the term for convent-run care for abandoned babies and dying elders. ‘Eileen’ is normally an Anglo/ Irish name.
If you join a website based in another country, you have to learn the terms. If you are indeed a RN (or whatever the local term is), you could /should have made your expectations to the local facility a lot clearer, and intervened a lot quicker."
When someone comes to the forum and states that hospice care is responsible for the death of a loved one - for many of us - it is a difficult pill to swallow - because hospice care is for the sole purpose of easing someone terminal into death. They are not the cause of death. They are there to ease the way.
Often - at least with the U.S. version of hospice - when someone says that hospice killed their loved one - it is because they had not come to terms with the fact that their family member was already actively dying. Hospice care removes all CURATIVE medications and only provides COMFORT medications. So the terminal illness is no longer treated. Which does hasten death - yes.
The other thing with end of life - and my mother and I were just literally talking about this today is how fast it seems to happen once it starts to happen. It seems to come out of nowhere and happen quickly once it starts to go downhill. Which - in my opinion - is a blessing. My father was very ill - and when hospice came in - he was given 6 months. He lived 2 weeks. Blessedly - he was not yet in any great pain and he died peacefully. Hospice was a great comfort to him and to our family.
I am truly sorry for your loss. And I do not mean to question or belittle - but I'm curious as to why hospice was necessary for medication management for an otherwise healthy person? And how you feel they starved him to death if he was healthy enough to eat? My father couldn't eat - he had no appetite -even when offered his favorite foods. He could still swallow as well. But he was actively dying - he was too sick to want to eat. Hospice - at least here - does not manage medication - at least not the curative kind. They only manage the comfort medications.
They are not there to get the patient well and send them home.
Nobody is being cheeky or hateful to you. If you post on a forum, you'll get comments. Some you'll like and some you won't. Very few will agree with you about being "starved to death" after eating breakfast or within 7 days of not being fed.
Why not take your issue up with an attorney who can guide you accordingly instead of a bunch of caregivers who have heard how "hospice killed my loved one" a thousand times before. Both of my parents died under hospice care, but their diseases killed them, not "hospice". Had I thought such a thing, I'd have fired hospice immediately and called an ambulance to take them to the hospital for treatment. That's always an option since hospice is not a prison sentence.
Again, my condolences on your loss.
an RGN with 20 years experience so I know my fdcts , there is no need to be cheeky and hateful to me at such a sensitive time . If you have nothing nice to say please say nothing , god bless you
The above was Eileen's first post to us.
Eileen, It was you who came to the Forum. You gave us no information in your post as regards your living in another country where Hospice is meant to be respite and pain control rather than end of life care (I never heard of such). If you wanted a swallow eval or if your father did or his proxy did that was for you to take up with the MDs. Your father had an not amputated necrotic toe, you tell us. He likely died of Sepsis and organ shut down more than an inability to swallow, because I have never heard of Hospice in any country who refuses food to someone who can and who wishes to eat.
We are all very sorry here, but you came to this Forum claiming that the Hospice purposely killed your father.
I don't believe that.
And if you come here you will get a variety of responses. You are free to accept what you like and kick the rest to the curb, but you will not stop our responding to you. If you don't wish response it is perhaps best not to post. If you wish responses then giving us the information we need by filling in your profile will be greatly appreciated.
We on Forum often get angry responses about Hospice. Often people in the initial stages of grief choose to blame others for death. That usually is doctors and nurses and hospitals and ecfs and rehabs and Hospices. I know you know that as an RN.
I wish you the very best. I wish you healing.
As I told you, I started nursing before we got Hospice from "across the pond". I witnessed death by shrieks and screams that I can still hear today. It was torment in my early career in Chicago. I thank all the powers that be for the wonder of good hospice care.
I only wish that corporate greed was not now invading Hospice care in the USA.
Please take care and get counseling help for your grieving if you feel it might help you.