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It is like what they tell you on a airplane. Put your oxygen mask on first to help yourself, bc you will be of no use to anyone else if you dont. Then you can help others/kids. I think you need to take care of yourself and kids first. In that order.

If he keeps going with the martyr syndrome, you might be taking care of 4 people. He could have a med emergency from the sheer stress. You have to think about that because he won't say no.

Is the dad on meds? Sounds like he isn't if he had to be hospitalized. I wouldn't want kids around someone off their meds if that is the case. Or have them learn how to manipulate others, by having melt downs, or crying. Kids are sponges. They see everything. The entire household would be on pins and needles for his family's care. Waiting for the next crying jag etc. What if you planned an outing, and they found out? Would there be an emergency? Or calm?

Im glad you took a step back. He has to see, he needs to let others in for their care. That is way to much for 1 person. Maybe he needs a therapist to help him say no, or stop being so co dependent.

What happens if you get married? You will be expected to pitch in to be a care giver. Then they will try to manipulate you. When it doesnt work, because you have a back bone, there will be a lot of drama. Especially if one says no outside help. No nursing home. You might become the meddling outsider, because you bucked the system they have going. You already said they didn't want to meet you. That is a huge red flag. Instead of having an argument with one, it might be 4. Your fiance already can't say no to them. You won't come first. Their family does. He has already shown you who he is.

What if one of them runs out of money? What happens then? Something to consider.

Good luck.
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Hi Happy,

Thanks for sharing more information. I have been caregiving for my mother for 9 years now, and I don't expect my wife to do anything that she is not willing to do. We both work and are saving steady for retirement while managing the schedules of different caregivers that come to the house. We use my mother's retirement check to pay for Caregivers and whatever else she needs (she doesn't qualify for social security because of the government pension offset rule). We strongly believe that we should be involved primarily as the caregivers' supervision, coach, and scheduler, not as their shadow, or to even do ALL the work ourselves. If your fiancé cannot simply manage a team of caregivers, or find a facility for each family member to be cared for, this is a big problem.

Looking at the long-term future plans...

Your fiancé needs to work consistently to support himself and his life with you and children, and this cannot be done while trying to miss paychecks as issues arise with his dad, uncle, and gma.

I encourage you to have the tough conversations with him about the future. He needs to present his plan to you on what his retirement savings plan is, and what retirement looks like before you say "I do." If he doesn't have a plan, you are dealing with someone who needs more than you should be giving. Couple this with the caregiving issues and you have a recipe of the worst tasting cake you can imagine.

I am sure that absent the caregiving drama, you enjoy his company, and you believe that he can be a good husband and step father to your children, but love can blind you on the long list of his short comings.

Hold off on marriage till he can do the following:

1) He needs to demonstrate that he has a plan to address the caregiving needs of his family without losing time off from work --- unpaid!

2) He needs to show you with his actions that you and your children are a priority in his life. This means you writing down all of your concerns and having a thorough discussion on each concern that you mutually agree to. You have to consider how your decisions will impact your children. You are an example, and they may take on a "project" human being because they see you doing it.

3) He must not be dependent on you in any way - especially financially as you cover things he is unable to cover.

4) He needs to present his plan to save for retirement, and if it only involves a social security check, he is clueless, and both of you need to sit down and hear the hard truth from a financial planner -- he may be so far behind that it will literally take decades to catch up --- will you want to wait or sponsor him in the meantime?

You sound like you are a very intelligent woman and mother, so you don't need a "project" or to raise a grown man.
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Happy, seeing this 360; what it comes down to is that your worst case scenario has been realized or is starting to be, whereas his has not and might never be.

You want him to commit to your family…I mean I doubt strongly that you’d kick your kid out at 18 because he said so. But you don’t wanna get involved with his family even now let alone when it gets more acute,

Maybe the best thing is to find a partner with young kids and no parents nearby.
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Happytimes1982 Apr 2022
My issue isn’t so much that he helps his family (I’m still close with my exhusband Whole family), it’s that I think they take advantage of him.
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Happy, something to think about (and I speak from experience--I'm married, second time for us both, to someone who had no savings at your fiancé 's age)--his lack of economic stability WILL have a big impact on your young children.

Right now, you are heading towards your peak earning and saving for retirement years. I can't tell you how important it is for you to be squirrelling every cent possible into your tax-advantaged savings and college funds for your kids.

Every cent that you "cover" for him now is magnified into dollars in the years ahead when it needs to be there for your kids and your retirement.

Please consider this all carefully.
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Happytimes1982 Apr 2022
Thanks….and yes I agree regarding retirement, I’m in a state pension plan. I don’t want to support him as well as myself in old age.
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"I don’t want to support him as well as myself in old age."

Find out if your state allows "spousal refusal": if it doesn't, you will find YOUR retirement assets funding HIS long term care.

I know most folks don't think about these things when they are in love, but in a second marriage, with kids, with unequal assets and earning power, it will loom large in a very few years. And Medicaid doesn't care about pre-nups.

If he is being promised an inheritance in exchange for caregiving, let him read some of the tragic tales on this board of folks who slaved for their "loved ones" for years, only to be left homeless, penniless, unemployed and unemployable seniors with serious physical ailments stemming from caregiving.

The way the system works in most states is that you use your funds to pay for care and then accept Medicaid. Medicaid then liens any real property that has been exempt, so the house needs to be sold to pay for that. There will be no inheritance after these 3 elders he is caring for are dead in 25 years or so.

Gma has been very foolish and short-sighted not to have arranged for a special needs trust for her sons if she wanted to "take care of her boys,"

Are you sure they're not a trio of grifters?
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Happytimes1982 Apr 2022
I have a lot to look into. He’s being promised “the house” however, in the will it states that dad and uncle have the right to live there as long as they are alive. Imo, I think fiancé will never really see the house. Fiance is banking on to assist w retirement, I think it’s a long shot. His dad also has bad health issues along w mental health: heart failure and diabetes. But fiancé and his dad and less than 20 years apart in age.

I believe that his family is very old school, just believing he should simply take care of them. I don’t think anything else beyond that(swindling), I honestly don’t think any of them have the foresight for that. I do think there’s been some strong manipulation of all the boys from gram, including fiancé. Her husband died 40 years ago (fiancé was 13), and I think she latched onto “her boys” after. I do believe she created a team that felt incapable of their own lives. This all came to light quite recently as I did think it was two quite disabled men until I realized that I think she created a good bit of this.
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Oh, we have a ton of "but you'll get the house" threads.

Those are folks who end up homeless. Or with a house that needs 100k worth of repairs because of delayed maintenance. And no money to pay the RE taxes and utilities (are YOU going to be paying for that while dad and uncle are living there?). If the house goes to fiancé after gma's death, he's on the hook for all of those costs, right?

The thing is, Medicaid USED to work that way and lots of people don't realize that the rules got changed when MERP became the law of the land-- Medicaid, managed by each state differently, has to do recovery from exempted assets after the recipient's death.

Gma sounds like master manipulator. She has disabled 3 grown men into doing her bidding rather than launching their own lives. Very sad.

Don't get sucked down this drain. Your and your children's futures are at stake.

You mentioned in an earlier post about getting gma to put the house in fiance's name now. Don't let that happen without a trip to a CELA-level eldercare attorney. That would be "gifting" and disallowed by Medicaid. Don't be confused by IRS gifting regs and Medicaids--those are two completely different animals.
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Happytimes1982 Apr 2022
Yes, this really came to light when she was just in the hospital. Fiancés comments “my uncle seems like a different person. He’s doing the dishes, taking care of himself, seems much happier” I can’t imagine not wanting my children to be productive citizens living independent lives! She’s basically institutionalized them somewhat. So sad.

I do wonder what this whole situation will look like once she’s gone. Fiancé take over this role? I can’t imagine him doing it long term. Fiancé is not someone who could be a homebody, at all. Temporarily maybe, but not long term.
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HappyTimes, if this guy makes you happy, be engaged and cautious.

Taking him on as a legal partner in marriage will complicate your life in too many ways.
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No amount of begging or fighting or ultimatums from you is going to make this man change. The fact that, for whatever reason, he feels obligated to care for his aging and incapacitated relatives is not going to change. He might hire some one to help out a little but there is no way he will stop doing what he is doing, especially for Grandma. She knows which buttons to push to manipulate him into doing what she wants. This comes down to what you are will to accept. His next suggestion, to make things "easier" will be to have you and the kids move with him into the house where the people are living. If you are not willing to do something like that, and wait for all of these people to pass away, then you have a huge life decision to make that only you can.. Good luck
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