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My mom had signed over my dad into a nursing home, because he had severe OCD and now apparently mild dementia. She passed away last year; and I am trying to maintain paying the bills on their house; including home insurance, which is extremely expensive due to a risk policy, and also high taxes. The utilities are relatively low compared to this. I am trying to also figure out a life insurance policy or a pre-burial irrevocable fund (something I hate to think about, but it caused issues when my mom passed-The responsibility all falls on me). Anyway, when I spoke to the finance manager at the NH last month to ask about life insurance and depositing checks he received into his banking account, they weren’t very helpful, and also mentioned that my mom was getting his SSI check, but now that she passed he’s only allowed $50/month. Funny after the conversation the SSI sure is not going into his account anymore, and the bank is also charging a monthly maintenance fee for not having any deposits. All these months of getting it, and I make a call to them and now it’s gone-I’m kicking myself.
Anyway, without this money, I surely can’t keep up with paying all the bills and purchase a funeral policy. My dad does not want to be at the NH and wants to go home. The NH says he cannot take care of himself. I’m trying to hold onto his house for him, but I am not sure what to do. Does the NH have to take his SSI; even though they have him as permanently there, is there no way he can claim the money needs to cover home expenses?

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If your dad is on Medicaid, then yes, the NH gets his SS check to pay his share of costs.

I am assuming that he is on Medicaid because self pay doesn't get a personal needs allowance, they have money for this and do not need anything set aside to cover this.

That is a universal requirement for Medicaid recipients, they only can get a PNA and the rest of their money goes towards their care, when there is no community spouse. As it should be.

Being on Medicaid means that the taxpayers are picking up the balance for dads care that he can not afford to pay. So that means that any bills he has will go unpaid, with the resulting consequences of not paying.

I recommend speaking with the social worker assigned to your dad from DHHS. They can help guide you on what all of this looks like and what the situation really is.

Vacant property insurance is very expensive and doesn't cover many things, so it is not worth keeping the house if there isn't a plan for him to come home. I know that you can not just admit someone to a NH, there has to be a medical need, with diagnosis from medical professionals, perhaps your mom down played what was going on with your dad. Request his medical records and look for yourself to understand what his diagnosis is that would qualify him for a NH. It has to be more than OCD and mild dementia, neither of those would require skilled nursing care and that is what is required for admission to a LTC NH. This will help you understand if you can really bring him home and safely care for his needs.

You should check into the expense of in home caregivers before you act. It is typically much more expensive than facilities and you still have the expense of the house and groceries, utilities, etc.

It may be time to sell the house and help dad get settled into his new home.

I am so sorry for your loss and I pray that you are given wisdom and understanding to get this sorted out. God bless you and your family.
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you could probably have your father contact everyone to stop payments right away. write something so he could sign or have the attorney do it right away. they will also be able to take the house after the fact.
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Its sad. once you sign over too those nursing homes. they are in charge of everything. that's bc they have to take care of them. unfortunately, The only way I see this changing is if you hire an attorney. Otherwise, they will not give you any information. Please try to do all you can while your father is able to do so.
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Of course the nursing home says he can't come home. They love it when they've got a customer paying cash like your father is.
Please pay attention to what I'm going to tell you and do it.
Do you have your father's POA? Change all of his bank accounts. Then speak with Social Security and have them deposit his monthly benefit into the new account. After this is done arrange a meeting with the business end of the nursing home and tell them you want to see a copy of every document that has your late mom's signature on it. That is your right.
Your mom signed documents allowing them to reroute your father's SS check because she gave them written permission to withdraw from your father's bank account. When he was admitted your mother would have been told the piles of documents requiring her signature were only standard admission forms and forms to bill Medicare and insurance. The business end of all nursing homes operate in this sneaky and underhanded manner. It happened to me with my father. When I realized what they did (with the help of the bank) I changed every account and rescinded my permission for them to reroute or withdraw anything. I demanded a written bill every month and I paid what they were actually owed. Not what they said was owed. The nursing home pulled money out of my father's account while he was being fully covered by Medicare and his secondary insurance. They had to refund it. During the months he was in the nursing home he had several hospital stays that were more than three days. When that happens Medicare and supplemental insurance kicks back in if a person still had Medicare days left. All nursing homes will double-dip and collect private cash payment even when insurance is covering it and they get away with it every time when a POA does not insist on a written bill and doesn't check everything. The nursing home did not get out of my family one penny more than they were owed.
Don't allow them to get away with this anymore. Your father has other bills that must be paid. So pay them. The nursing home isn't the only bill that he or his POA is responsible to pay.
If your father is yet to be on Medicaid, he hasn't been in the nursing home all that long. If he stays in the NH at some point he will have to go on Medicaid. If he isn't now, then you are in full control of all his money and assets as POA. It is within your rights to purchase a pre-paid funeral contract that is paid for with his funds. Medicaid allows this. The funeral director that you meet with will tell you how much your state's Medicaid program allows for a pre-paid funeral contract.
If your father's life insurance policies are under a certain amount in benefit and they are more than (in my state) ten years old, Medicaid leaves that alone. The nursing home will try to shake you down for them, but you won't owe it to them.
Stop speaking to the financial manager of the NH. That greedy scunner has only the nursing home's best interests at heart and is no friend to you or your father. Talk to the probate court in your father's town. They will do right by you. Look into the possibility of maybe moving him into an AL instead and hiring caregivers. Have an independent doctor (his own) do an assessment for you.
You have to pay his bill, but you do not have to allow the nursing home any access to his bank accounts or other assets.
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Daughterof1930 Mar 2021
My mother was in a nursing home for four years. There was never any “shakedown” or “double dipping” They were aboveboard with everything financial. If the poster’s father is getting SS it only makes sense that after the passing of the community spouse that money would go to the NH. The allowable $50 is for common needs. The transfer of the SS to the nursing was something that was always going to happen, it may have taken a while given the nature of government, but it was correct and not a scam in any way
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Is your Dad on Medicaid? If so, Mom was the Community Spouse and upon her death the SS check reverts back to Dad for his care. Same for any assets that were split at time Mom became the Community Spouse. If any assets are left, they revert back to Dad for his care. Someone on the forum explained that the assets the Community Spouse is allowed goes into a trust and that reverts back to the spouse on Medicaid when CS passes.

If Dad is on Medicaid, there are really no trusts that can be set up now, I don't think. Prepaid funerals are usually done during the spend down period. You may want to ask Dads caseworker about funeral expenses and how u can handle them.

I would sell the house. Be aware though, it has to sell for Market Value. Same with a car. The proceeds from that sale will need to go towards Dads care. You may be able to then prepay his funeral.
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BurntCaregiver Mar 2021
Mellrocks is dealing with the NH business people and not Medicaid. If the father was on Medicaid, Mellrocks would be getting benefit statements in the mail from Medicaid regularly.
The father's real estate only has to be listed on the market when he gets on Medicaid. Until it is sold, they will not make a fuss about Mellrocks not paying the nursing home what they want because money is being used to pay the bills of the home in order for it to be sold. Medicaid also pays nursing home bills retro-actively.
The elder lawyer I used when my father had to go to the NH told me to keep real estate or cars in his name as long as I could. It's a waiting game really. The nursing home wants every penny a person has up front immediately and will shamelessly shakedown a family to get it. Medicaid operates differently. Mellrocks does not have to do what the NH demands. It is very possible that the father is already getting some of his care bill paid by Medicaid and the regular paperwork is getting sent to the NH. That needs to be checked on because as we all know the NH will still expect the full cash amount they charge until every penny is given to them even if some of the care bill is being paid by Medicaid. They pull this scam all the time and a POA has to regularly check with social services to find out if some is already getting paid for.
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Is your father on medicaid at this time? Because the "clawback" on the home when it is sold after his death could mean that there is almost nothing left. I would consider at this point that it might be as well to sell this home, and use the assets towards Dad's care, then getting him back on medicaid when it is spent down. Part of the spenddown, with you as POA, would be the funeral costs. I would see an Elder Law attorney in your area. While that means an expenditure of some 350.00 for the hour you may find out what is the best direction in which to proceed. An empty home means insurance will go up and up and up and home value will go down and down. Empty house is never good. Also renting the home out would mean Dad has assets in terms of income, and he would lose his medicaid.
Sure do wish you good luck and hope some here with knowledge of best way to go will chime in.
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Frebrowser Mar 2021
Assuming the house in entirely in his name, (Mom didn't own part and leave it to someone else), it sounds like there isn't anyone with a claim to live in it and pay the expenses.

The lawyer can help you figure out how to best use the spend down in addition to final expenses.
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