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For those who argue that parents raised their kids, it is not the same or as hard as taking care of a parent with dementia. This is the hardest job in the world and one without any hope.
Bonfire, And an additional thought on that, when we have children we are required by law to care for them or they will be taken away. We are not lawfully bound to care for our parents, but instead what happens when we take this on is we are ridiculed many times by selfish siblings that are concerned about the impact on their inheritance if we were paid. And if we take it on, then we are subject to laws and regulations to provide a safe environment for them. Then selfish siblings call the authorities with completely false accusations.
Gladimhere, I am gladurhere! I think you just wrote my story above! I got accused fasely also and it cost $4,000 in lawyer fees. (out the the small estate, which is gone)
To say that caregivers shouldn't get paid (or at least reimbursed) is like saying that the work of a wife and mother has no value. A husband gives his wife money to purchase necessities, why shouldn't the same be afforded to a loving caregiver? Sign the caregiver contract, and collect a small hourly rate, especially if you have given up your job to care for a loved one. Personally, I haven't collected a dime because I didn't know about the caregiver contract. Hindsight is foresight. Go forth, guilt-free but don't be greedy :-)
I recently took over 99% of my parents finances. My dad is nearly bedridden from cancer and my mom just gets increasingly fragile, confused and forgetful. She still gets cash from the bank and grocery shops. I am the sibling who is there when they fall, go to the ER, need things done around the house, etc. etc. I do not work full time. I homeschool my son so we are a 1 income family. I contemplated getting a part time job but I ALREADY HAVE ONE! My parents are my part time job. For a long time I felt weird about asking them for money but if I didn't do all of this stuff they would have to pay someone else...so why not pay me? They were very happy that I asked and after reviewing their finances (whether they could actually afford to pay me something on a regular basis) I now pay myself $75 a week. Doesn't sound like much but it is to me. I live 10 miles away from them so a lot of that goes toward gas but it helps. I think a reasonable amount to start with is minimum wage and then go from there based on your parents finances and how much work you do for them.
I apologize for my answer above...I misread the question and didn't see the "child" part! My son has mowed the lawn and shoveled snow for my parents for a few years and they would give him $10 or $20 but not every single time. I want to make sure that he knows that sometimes you do things for Grama and Grampa "just because" and without getting paid.
A word of caution . . . sign a legitimate Caregiver contract and report your earnings, or Medicaid, Social Security, and the I.R.S., (and misunderstanding family members) can take legal and financial action. Do your homework now and save yourself heartache in the long-run.
I just noticed that onlychild said she would not consider being paid to care for parent. Onlychild, would you feel differently if you had siblings that do nothing to help and you were the one doing everything?
Madeaa: I am not sure that who Debbydeal is referring to is really a "child." I could have asked the same exact question about being paid to care for my mother, because I am her "child" but I am over 50 years old. I asked before about paying my daughter to help me with care for my mother. My daughter is 21 and she runs errands, buys groceries, allows us to use her car and her gas and she is a senior in college and has no job, so I cannot see taking advantage of her and I think she does need to be paid at least $12 and hour and we pay her gas. I am already doing this with no compensation, and no help from siblings. I do not want to force my daughter to help me but I do believe she deserves some compensation.
Elderly parents need a place to live and help with their care. That costs money. If an adult child is willing to accept the responsibility for housing and caregiving, why shouldn't they be compensated based on their parents income. Most adult children who are willing are not rich and the extra money will help keep them from financial disaster.
I want to say I am so grateful to have found this board tonight!
I take care of my elderly grandfather. His son is 50% beneficiary on his accounts. Although my grandfather has stated many times that his son does nothing and I do everything and that he finds his son's behavior terrible, the son still remains the main beneficiary. Reading about those who do all the work and do not want the other siblings to inherit as much--it is really amazing to see that expressed for me. I feel the same way but feel guilty about it.
I have a caregiving contract in place. We had to make one up for the VA benefit. Now my grandfather has lost the benefit due to an inheritance. (I posted about this in another area.) And I am poring over his budgets, making them balance, so he doesn't have to dig into the principle of his money to pay me.
WHY? Why am I so determined to keep that money for others? It makes no sense. Like many of you, I have found that I cannot make as much money because I am in this caretaking position. There is an opportunity cost.
At the same time, I can't quite figure out the "hourly" value of the work. When I am taking him to the doctor (or my husband is), we're "on the clock." But when I'm cooking dinner, I also eat the dinner. Sure, when I'm cleaning poop, I need to clock in. But there are hours where I'm just in the house, sort of on call, minding my own business.
There is also the fact that my grandfather actually does contribute toward household expenses, food, and utilities. Since he has the resources, he can do this. But then I feel like, well, I sort of have a renter. Maybe that is enough, and on top of that, I should not get paid. I am really struggling with how to make this all work for us and we want to have a little sit down with him to figure it out.
But it was just great to read that so many others are dealing with the same thing.
For me, the most helpful thing, in hind sight, would have been to ...
Have the conversation UP FRONT! Reach agreements immediately, now!
After the fact, no one cares. My brother recently said, how nice it was that Mom was healthy until she died. Well she wasn't healthy at all, she was in the hospital many times for years and I was with her every day.
Years ago, Mom was advised to put her house into her children's names equally. That was great advice financially, but from a care givers perspective, toward the end when she offered me her home, she hadn't owned it for years by that point.
I had NO idea what I was getting into. It starts slowly. It seems manageable. You feel you can be kind, you can do this, until you realize you have given up years of your life!
Our parents, sadly will die... as we will some day. When I started the process, I didn't want to think about that. I thought a kindness was appropriate. So I gave kindnesses until I became the door mat... and there was nothing left to provide care for me.
It is critical to acknowledge ... this is a terminal endeavor. It will end. Our parents will not grow up and go off like our children. We will watch them deteriorate and die. It may be fast or slow. It may be with complicated medical issues or occur in relative good health until they sleep. We can NOT know ... Will it be a few weeks, a few months, years... or 10-15+ years?
Based on the unknown length of time, yet known outcome caregivers must find advocates who can help them consider this issue, because when you start out, you do NOT know what you are about to face.
Get help, early... to set agreements right up front.
Do not under appreciate yourself. Like with a drowning, if you try to save someone but drown in the process (or become sick and unemployed) you can't help anyone. Take care of yourself, always.
Acknowledge that people/siblings who do not live nearby have NO idea how much you give. You will give so much more than they ever can... and you should be recognized and compensated for it!
I have been the sole caregiver for my mother, it is harder than I ever imagined. My family doesn't offer any help or emotion support. She did so much for everyone yet no one take any time to even visit her. Very Sad when someone looses the ability to communicate- others find it a burden to visit. My mom still has feelings, she would love a hug, her hand held, and a smile. Family members tell me that it is difficult to see her this way. That is the biggest cope out I have ever heard.. I too find it difficult but it is cruel to turn you back on someone in need.
WOW! I am so thankful to see that other caregivers understand. I have been through the wringer in the Commonwealth of Virginia. The Commissioner of Accounts requires that I save $970/month for her heirs. Heirs that have not seen her in 8 years and heirs that she was taken away from by APS because of neglect and exploitation. They stole 280K from her before I could get anyone to step in. She lives with me rent free and in the past 2 months I have paid 7k in her expenses for care and repairs to her home. She still owns her home that I am property manager for. It's crazy that I am spending my money so that her heirs can inherit and increased amount. Thanks for the validation.
I have been taking care of my Mother since 1996, for free. She has lived in my home and my husband and I have taken her to appointments, etc. But in Feb, 2013, she was wheelchair bound and I had to do everything for her (quit my job). According to the process, we had to show she will be paying me $800.00 per month for caregiver fee. We also have to write a check out of her bank every month for this amount to me,(her only child). She has to show this as an expense to get the pension monthly. You need to set it up this way to qualify for the Pension. This money helps us give her a much better life in her last years (she is 92). No one has any problem with what we are doing. Our Family is also a Family that takes care it's own. When my children get in a tight spot, we all help each other and do not expect to be repaid. We are just happy to get the one in trouble back on track again. This is the way our Family does things.
Agree with above. Take salary. If other family don't like it or think you should give up your life for free - let them step in and share caregiving. Split time evenly - anyone not participating can either pay someone to do their hours or give up their share of future estate. Bet you won't get any takers. Get it in writing (something to discuss while parent is still mentally able). Be sure to include days off and vacation (with in-home care giving service providing respite if family won't help). It is sadly the ones who do nothing who are the first in line to get "their share" . Also, if parent's money runs out - at least you will have it and can use it towards their care. If they have to go on Medicaid you can be sure the government will take what they have. (And if you have spent your money/life waiting to get it back from parent's estate - you may well wind up with nothing. Who will take care of you if that happens?)
funny, someone mentioned 'kids dont ask to be born', ok, well, i was adopted. i sure didnt ask to go from raising my son to having to care for an old man that hates me! keep in mind, older sister IS their natural kid.. where is she? not here. thats for sure.. nope. its me that got this place back for him from dope fiends, its me that cleaned it up, its me that gets called all the names in the book including mooch ( when im the one that got the back bills caught up, im the one that found him money to take a trip to new zeland! and what does he do? he takes sister.and im the mooch...wrong) she litterally walks through this house when she does visit and names off the things they want after he dies.. how hideous is that?! and im the mooch
Many of us are considered mooches. My sibs tried to charge me room and board, when I buy all the food, and would be in my own home with a job if mom did not need the care.
First, if you are living in the home of the parent, then there should be a value placed upon the things the parent is providing. It just plain economics. Then there is this: are you forcing your parent to live in their home rather than go to assisted living or skilled nursing? I had my parent stay in an apartment for active seniors, and we provided the assistance. Parent thrived. I mean had a blast. All these new friends. All these things to do. Exercise three times a day in a modern gym. Theater room with a huge screen. It was like livin' at the ritz. At home, my parent sat in front of a TV aad spent days and days doing nothing. In other words, are you in the home to get the home, or because of some irrational belief that home is better than a facility. Could be, but it would be impossible to replicate all the fun my parent had at that apartment complex. We moved to a different city, bought a fabulous house, and parent is bored stiff. So we're looking at a skilled nursing facility that specializes in parent's needs. Because they have activities and social events every hour of the day. So sure, I would like to have all the money and the house, etc., but not when the alternative is what's best for parent. Parent earned that dough for them, not me.
whitenight, that was a most bitter message. Sorry you feel that way. The truth is that many seniors can't be pried out of their houses with a shoe horn. They will stay there as long as possible. And I don't know about other people, but my mother's house isn't worth much. It would cost as much or more to repair as it is worth. Because of this, none of the heirs want it.
Personally I would love it if my mother wanted to move to a senior apartment, but she doesn't like to socialize. She wants to stay in her house. If I weren't here, the other option would be a NH. She can't afford AL around here. It cost way too much. And she couldn't live independently.
Do you feel caregivers are getting in the way of their elders' lives? I never thought of it that way. I guess in some cases it might be true.
Well, WhiteKnight, first. I'm in my mom's home, because I had to give up MY home to care for her. My mom wanted me here, in her house, so that she didn't HAVE to go anywhere. Without me, she would have been in a nursing home 10 years ago. As it is, she's been in respite for about a month and a half now. She's been here, in her house where she wanted to be because I gave up MY house, not to mention my whole LIFE... See how that works? Had I been anybody else but her daughter on duty 24/7, my mom would have PAID them...why should I be different?
I knew my mom was land rich a long time ago. My mom told me when I was in my 20's that if I didn't start towing the line she'd cut me out of her will completely. And she did just that. And? My son isn't stupid. He knows what's up. He knows what I've done, the hours I've put in, the things I've had to go through. We've agreed that I deserve, have EARNED at least half of all my mom has...and that's exactly what I expect to get. My time didn't come free. My health didn't come free. 10 lost years. 10 years away from everything and everyone. 10 years in a pit, a cave, with nobody else around, just you and the never ending insanity... And I'm supposed to...what?...at the age of 48, with no job prospects and under educated, walk away from these assets because...well...it's just the unselfish, politically correct thing to do...? Well, I'm selfish.
That sentence 'the parent is providing' made me lol. That's a good one, Knight. The parent SHOULD be doing some 'providing' for their care taker, wouldn't you say so? Would you ask a paid professional that lived in, helping and doing for you, to pay the light bill? As far as I'm concerned, all that stuff should be provided at no charge to the care giver, and they should get a fat salary, and people should be on their knees every night thanking whatever higher power they pray to for the honor of having them there, and thereby giving THEM their freedom...
Parents earned those assets and that dough to take care of THEMSELVES. When that's no longer possible, those assets and dough should go to doing just that...even if that care taker is their child...hell, ESPECIALLY if that care taker is their child... Nobody should demand that a burden that could go on for decades be placed on their children for free...
Oh, and just so ya know, not everyone here can afford facilities with state of the art gyms and theaters that could be in the Ritz. Must be nice!
I did my mom a favor. She damn sure didn't do me any these last few years.
Yes, my mom is enjoying her time at the respite center, thank God. I hope she continues to do so. 'Force' her to stay here? lmao Had it been up to me, she would have been there long before my EKG went out of whack...
People deserve to get paid for their time if they look after their elderly parents. Sibs that don't do squat, imho, don't deserve squat. I wouldn't give them a dime if that were possible. If you do the work, you deserve the assets, or at least most of them..
StandingAlone.. you may have convinced yourself that you are undereducated but you are VERY smart and wise to the ways of the world and no amount of schooling will teach a person life experience. Everything you said in your above comment is bang on !! Thank-you!!
I am coming to the conclusion that an hourly fee is more reasonable than a salary. The reason is that at the moment, my grandfather is able to stay by himself for a few hours at a time. But then I sit down and manage medication, or take him to doctor visits, and sometimes clean up incontinence messes. It just doesn't happen every day.
I'll say it again, unless you have multi million dollar parents, in which case YOU wouldn't be the care giver, none of these parents have enough assets to pay for what's given them. My mom can't afford me. But I'll take what I can get, thanks, for a job well done for 10 years, and yeah, I'll take back some of MY money that I gave HER while I'm at it.
I think some family member caregivers force their parents to stay in their homes solely because they want the house, or to avoid spend down. Because I've seen it.
My parent never thought they would enjoy it so much.
WK, You may have seen it, but it is well documented that particularly those with Alzheimer's and other dementias do best in their homes. They also want to stay there, that is what they are familiar with. In my case my mom has been in this home for 50 years! She knows nothing else, other than her childhood home, where she sometimes thinks she is. I can tell you another thing, the nights when she doesn't remember she's married, or her children have grown, only can a child provide the comfort that they so badly need! As far as going to a facility, she would have no idea where she was, at least home provides some much needed familiarity even though at times she has no idea where she is.
Maybe, WK, you are trying to justify your decisions?
whiteknight.. the question on this thread was about children who are having to care for their elderly parent. If your parents are in assisted living than obviously you are not having to care for them. I have found that most of the caregivers in this forum have given up their life to look after their parent(s). I own my own condo (no mortgage), I was self employed, happily single and on my own and when my mum required live-in-care I was the only one of 3 daughters that stepped up to the plate. I gave up my employment, locked up my home, gave up my social life and I live with my mother 7 days a week. I take a decent salary because I am only 52 and I need to earn a living for the next 10 years of my life for my retirement. I do not need my mother's home, I have my own, I wish I was able to live in it but I am not because I put my wants and my life aside to make sure my mum receives the best of care. There is not much "care" provided in assisted living and not only that but many elderly people have no interest in socializing and going to gyms, outings etc. Most of the caregivers have sacrificed the majority of their life as they knew it to care for their parents, spouses or whoever. For those of us who care for people who are in a position to pay us a salary than that is the way it should be. In my opinion.
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And an additional thought on that, when we have children we are required by law to care for them or they will be taken away. We are not lawfully bound to care for our parents, but instead what happens when we take this on is we are ridiculed many times by selfish siblings that are concerned about the impact on their inheritance if we were paid. And if we take it on, then we are subject to laws and regulations to provide a safe environment for them. Then selfish siblings call the authorities with completely false accusations.
I take care of my elderly grandfather. His son is 50% beneficiary on his accounts. Although my grandfather has stated many times that his son does nothing and I do everything and that he finds his son's behavior terrible, the son still remains the main beneficiary. Reading about those who do all the work and do not want the other siblings to inherit as much--it is really amazing to see that expressed for me. I feel the same way but feel guilty about it.
I have a caregiving contract in place. We had to make one up for the VA benefit. Now my grandfather has lost the benefit due to an inheritance. (I posted about this in another area.) And I am poring over his budgets, making them balance, so he doesn't have to dig into the principle of his money to pay me.
WHY? Why am I so determined to keep that money for others? It makes no sense. Like many of you, I have found that I cannot make as much money because I am in this caretaking position. There is an opportunity cost.
At the same time, I can't quite figure out the "hourly" value of the work. When I am taking him to the doctor (or my husband is), we're "on the clock." But when I'm cooking dinner, I also eat the dinner. Sure, when I'm cleaning poop, I need to clock in. But there are hours where I'm just in the house, sort of on call, minding my own business.
There is also the fact that my grandfather actually does contribute toward household expenses, food, and utilities. Since he has the resources, he can do this. But then I feel like, well, I sort of have a renter. Maybe that is enough, and on top of that, I should not get paid. I am really struggling with how to make this all work for us and we want to have a little sit down with him to figure it out.
But it was just great to read that so many others are dealing with the same thing.
Have the conversation UP FRONT! Reach agreements immediately, now!
After the fact, no one cares. My brother recently said, how nice it was that Mom was healthy until she died. Well she wasn't healthy at all, she was in the hospital many times for years and I was with her every day.
Years ago, Mom was advised to put her house into her children's names equally. That was great advice financially, but from a care givers perspective, toward the end when she offered me her home, she hadn't owned it for years by that point.
I had NO idea what I was getting into. It starts slowly. It seems manageable. You feel you can be kind, you can do this, until you realize you have given up years of your life!
Our parents, sadly will die... as we will some day. When I started the process, I didn't want to think about that. I thought a kindness was appropriate. So I gave kindnesses until I became the door mat... and there was nothing left to provide care for me.
It is critical to acknowledge ... this is a terminal endeavor. It will end. Our parents will not grow up and go off like our children. We will watch them deteriorate and die. It may be fast or slow. It may be with complicated medical issues or occur in relative good health until they sleep. We can NOT know ... Will it be a few weeks, a few months, years... or 10-15+ years?
Based on the unknown length of time, yet known outcome caregivers must find advocates who can help them consider this issue, because when you start out, you do NOT know what you are about to face.
Get help, early... to set agreements right up front.
Do not under appreciate yourself. Like with a drowning, if you try to save someone but drown in the process (or become sick and unemployed) you can't help anyone. Take care of yourself, always.
Acknowledge that people/siblings who do not live nearby have NO idea how much you give. You will give so much more than they ever can... and you should be recognized and compensated for it!
Get it in writing (something to discuss while parent is still mentally able).
Be sure to include days off and vacation (with in-home care giving service providing respite if family won't help).
It is sadly the ones who do nothing who are the first in line to get "their share" .
Also, if parent's money runs out - at least you will have it and can use it towards their care.
If they have to go on Medicaid you can be sure the government will take what they have. (And if you have spent your money/life waiting to get it back from parent's estate - you may well wind up with nothing. Who will take care of you if that happens?)
Where does the value of what the caregiver is providing come into play?
Personally I would love it if my mother wanted to move to a senior apartment, but she doesn't like to socialize. She wants to stay in her house. If I weren't here, the other option would be a NH. She can't afford AL around here. It cost way too much. And she couldn't live independently.
Do you feel caregivers are getting in the way of their elders' lives? I never thought of it that way. I guess in some cases it might be true.
I knew my mom was land rich a long time ago. My mom told me when I was in my 20's that if I didn't start towing the line she'd cut me out of her will completely. And she did just that. And? My son isn't stupid. He knows what's up. He knows what I've done, the hours I've put in, the things I've had to go through. We've agreed that I deserve, have EARNED at least half of all my mom has...and that's exactly what I expect to get. My time didn't come free. My health didn't come free. 10 lost years. 10 years away from everything and everyone. 10 years in a pit, a cave, with nobody else around, just you and the never ending insanity... And I'm supposed to...what?...at the age of 48, with no job prospects and under educated, walk away from these assets because...well...it's just the unselfish, politically correct thing to do...? Well, I'm selfish.
That sentence 'the parent is providing' made me lol. That's a good one, Knight. The parent SHOULD be doing some 'providing' for their care taker, wouldn't you say so? Would you ask a paid professional that lived in, helping and doing for you, to pay the light bill? As far as I'm concerned, all that stuff should be provided at no charge to the care giver, and they should get a fat salary, and people should be on their knees every night thanking whatever higher power they pray to for the honor of having them there, and thereby giving THEM their freedom...
Parents earned those assets and that dough to take care of THEMSELVES. When that's no longer possible, those assets and dough should go to doing just that...even if that care taker is their child...hell, ESPECIALLY if that care taker is their child... Nobody should demand that a burden that could go on for decades be placed on their children for free...
Oh, and just so ya know, not everyone here can afford facilities with state of the art gyms and theaters that could be in the Ritz. Must be nice!
I did my mom a favor. She damn sure didn't do me any these last few years.
Yes, my mom is enjoying her time at the respite center, thank God. I hope she continues to do so. 'Force' her to stay here? lmao Had it been up to me, she would have been there long before my EKG went out of whack...
People deserve to get paid for their time if they look after their elderly parents. Sibs that don't do squat, imho, don't deserve squat. I wouldn't give them a dime if that were possible. If you do the work, you deserve the assets, or at least most of them..
My parent never thought they would enjoy it so much.
You may have seen it, but it is well documented that particularly those with Alzheimer's and other dementias do best in their homes. They also want to stay there, that is what they are familiar with. In my case my mom has been in this home for 50 years! She knows nothing else, other than her childhood home, where she sometimes thinks she is. I can tell you another thing, the nights when she doesn't remember she's married, or her children have grown, only can a child provide the comfort that they so badly need! As far as going to a facility, she would have no idea where she was, at least home provides some much needed familiarity even though at times she has no idea where she is.
Maybe, WK, you are trying to justify your decisions?