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JC- From what you have said, you have received your payment in the form of increasing your net worth. I do not see how that is different from those of us whose net worth has decreased and want to be paid. Most of us do this alone without help from siblings. So, take money from them in the form of their inheritance, to receive payment for the care we provide, you bet! If your net worth had not increase by hundreds of thousands of dollars, how then would you feel about being paid? Why would I want to gift siblings that do not help, in the form of free care for our parent? If we all equally shared in the caring, then yes, you bet, leave the estate intact to split evenly.
The only problem I had with your post JC is how is came off. You're talking about your increased net worth, while seemingly thinking it's lousy for people to want payment for their services to their elderly parents.
I don't have any issue at all concerning what your grandfather has done for you. He did the right thing imo and you're no leech at all in accepting it.
Like Ignorotic said, many people find themselves 24/7 caretakers out of nowhere. I'm an only child. I had my little house, my job, my friends, my life. Then mom started calling and hounding me to move in with her to help her. She's 40 years older than I am. She was also a physical and verbal abuser my entire life. The last damn thing I wanted was to move in with her and deal with her. Unfortunately, I was all there was. There was nobody else. I resisted and refused her for over a year. Guilt and a feeling of moral obligation got me in here. I had no damn idea what I was getting into. I thought she was just getting older, slowing down. About 3 years or so after I got here she told me she had been diagnosed with Alz. Mentally, I heard the bars of a cage clang down around me. I just felt this sense of absolute dread and knew I was in trouble.
To make a long story short, I lost my job, was let go, due to absences related to my mom's health issues. If it wasn't one thing it was another. I was devastated and scared. I developed an anxiety disorder due to constant worry about the future, not to mention the ever increasing stress related to taking care of an alz patient alone. My mom seemed to get worse by the week. Before I knew it I was a 24/7 caretaker, no job, no money coming in, no future, no friends, no support, no nothing. In fact, I financially supported my mom the first 5 years after I moved in here. Our agreement was that I wouldn't have to pay expenses. A month after I got in here my mom dropped the bomb that she was broke and could no longer pay her taxes and bills. No wonder she wanted me in here so bad. So much for saving. So much for anything. This job, and it's the hardest job I've ever done in my life and ever will, utterly consumed me. Not because I'm some martyr with a halo, but because...who else was going to help? I couldn't just walk and leave her alone. My conscience wouldn't allow it.
The toll that this whole situation has taken on me is astronomical. I can't even put into words what dealing with an alz patient, pretty much alone for a decade, has done to me mentally and physically. There is no amount of money that can compensate me for what I've gone through and what I've lost. You have no idea. My mom didn't have enough money to afford me and the 'services' I provided around the clock and neither do most of these parents around here. Most caretakers LOSE in so many, many ways when they assume the care giver role.
As far as I'm concerned, care givers deserve every damn dime their parents have if they assume the care for them to their own detriment because nobody else will stand up. As far as the ones that don't do sh*t, they shouldn't GET sh*t. Who the hell promised THEM a free ride? The parent? Not if they want MY help and support. I'd make that very clear. If I had siblings that dumped that whole load in my lap, walked away and never looked back, living their lives fancy free without a worry in the world and not lifting a single finger for the parents, if it was the last thing I'd ever do I'd make sure they didn't get a single nickel. It has nothing at all to do with greed and everything to do with justice. I put in the hours, I put in the work, I did the sacrificing while they went on vacations and lived life? I'd see them in hell first before they got a single penny and if they came at me with their stupid demands about what THEY were going to get I'd laugh in their face. If I had siblings that dissed me the way some people get dissed around here I wouldn't consider them my siblings for long and I'd sue the damn estate for back pay and tie it up forever before I'd see them have so much as the dust off a copper penny.
If there is a financial need, I would pay my kids and help them out. Absolutely, even though I took care of them for 21 years, cars, college, weddings etc. But I know it's dirty work, so yes find me a nice AL with some other old hens. One near the woods so I can watch the wildlife. On the other hand if you are taking me in just cause you want my $%^&*() life savings, you can kiss my ^&*()%
I do agree strongly with the point JCV makes that the parents' assets remain the parents' assets, and are not a kitty either to be divided according to what the heirs think is fair, or fought over for years afterwards in the midst of bitter accusations and counter accusations (and fat legal bills).
The ideal parent will sort his affairs tidily before he is in any danger of becoming incapable. He will also have ensured that his property is unencumbered, and that he has ample funds to cover his own care needs. He will consider his children's deserts fairly, make his decisions accordingly, communicate them with clear explanation, and insist that there is to be no further argument. His children will meekly accept this judgement and remember their parent with honour and gratitude at his demise…
Back in the real world: there isn't enough money to go round, parents don't sort out their care needs or the funding for it, and even if they did no one can predict those reliably, somebody has to step in, it's your parent so no you're not in it for the money, but you still have to eat, and the reality is that the one, five, ten, twenty years you devote to that caregiving is time you can't spend on your own career and retirement plans (pace JCV - some of us are better organised than others, and no I am not having a dig - respect!). Not forgetting that some care situations are infinitely more onerous than others, for all sorts of reasons. Those years do cost. And they cost a heck of a lot more than the average hired carers get paid per hour, too, mainly because they're not paid enough, either. And the years don't just cost money.
SA, I love your ferocity x - but I don't share it. There are all kinds of reasons, again, why I live with my mother and my siblings don't; but in the end it's because I want to and they don't. Blah blah cheap care… blah blah economically insane for me… blah blah what do they do for her… But when it comes to her will, my mother (as far as I know - there could be some Cats Protection League type surprises in store) will treat us all four the same. That's what she thinks is fair, it's what she has always done, and it's HER MONEY. The end.
CM, it might be HER money but it's YOUR time and effort she's counting on. It's YOU that deals. It's YOU that works for her. It's YOU that cares for her. It's YOU that can't live life as you probably would otherwise because of her. It's YOU that makes sure things get done. It's YOU that makes sure that she's safe. It's YOU that makes sure she stays healthy. It's NOT your siblings. If I had siblings and my mom insisted on treating us all 'fairly' in her mind by dishing out the dough equally, bet your sweet, sweet ass they'd be stepping up to take on some of that load come hell or high water. They'd be coming and picking her up and she'd be at THEIR houses some of the time and I'd make it known to HER, too. Then fine, divide YOUR money equally, mom. Everybody earned it. The end. Nobody has ever accused me of wearing a halo. lol
I'll admit it, CM, I can be a b*tch, especially about these sibling controversies I'm always reading about around here. They make me do a slow simmer at the injustice every single time. These siblings I read about here have no honor, no heart, they have no character from what I read. In other words, they're all sh*t to me. And if that's how I view you, I have no mercy on you and that's exactly how I view these so called siblings that I hear so much about on this site. DNA be damned. If you're a sh*t, you're a sh*t and I have nothing for you and if you were my kin and had nothing for our parent I'd make sure our parent had nothing for you either. Or very, very little.
You're the good daughter. You deserve the lion's share of whatever is there, imo. *shrug*
When I was caring for my aunt, one of her brothers complained nonstop that I didn't pay enough for rent, bills etc...even though I was unable to work for the last 2 years I was caring for her. When she went into the hospital and then a nursing home, I was blamed for that too (she weighed over 400 pounds and was immobile, with a myriad of related medical issues). There was no recognition that she would have been in a nursing home 8 years earlier if I hadn't stepped in.
I got a pittance from medicaid to care for my aunt, and that money didn't even cover the cost of fuel and food for me. After I ran through my savings, I was literally broke. Only luck allowed me stay off of government assistance once my aunt went into the nursing home.
And what really pisses me off is that I think most caregivers are not "martyrs". We simply want people who don't know the details and are only involved to complain to just STAY AWAY, and keep their opinions to themselves. We don't want a pity party.
I see it very simply. When an elderly person needs care it has to come from someone and in a place that costs money. Whether a family home, ALF or nursing home. A healthcare aid, nurse or caregiver. Long term care insurance, private funds or medicaid. The three come hand in hand=the place, the carer, the cost.
And the POA's that are more concerned about their inheritance are the same ones that allow a long term care policy to lapse. Happened here, by law insurance companies are required to notify second listed on the policy. And sis who raises the biggest issue about paying me to care for mom made a $300,000.00 mistake when the policy lapsed due to non-payment!
Hm...well, perhaps I was a bit negative, but as I said, I watched my mom destroy herself taking care of her parents. And it didn't make sense to me. I felt she could have walked away at any time. There is Medicaid for people who cannot afford care. They can live in a nursing home free of charge. Why live with dysfunctional people who make your life miserable? It makes no sense to me when there clearly is another option. So it seems to me that blaming siblings who do nothing is not really valid. In my mom's case, it was pretty easy to understand why her brother steered clear. And now I have inherited my grandfather. Sure, I take care of him, but he is fortunately the easy going one of the family. I couldn't subject my son to an abusive person in the house. And well, I wouldn't subject myself to that. So since there are other options, I can't help but believe that those who bankrupt themselves to care for an abusive relative have chosen that path. In my mother's case, I know it gave her a sense of worth to care for her parents, as difficult as it was. I'm just not like that, and I have a kid. I have made sacrifices with my time, but I would not let the situation take me down or stop working. True, I don't know everybody's situation, but I'm suspicious. The line of thought that because you've stopped working you deserve any and all money coming to you...it runs dangerously close to the line of thinking that perhaps not working and sapping money out of the elderly is just easier. I know my mom could not actislly function on her own, as she herself was a dysfunctional person. So living with her parents gave her a purpose and an identity and made her laudable among her few friends. And it was a laudable thing to do. But she didn't have to do it, and I think she told herself that she did have to. That was never true. She made that choice.
Lollollol, oh JCV I do love you - not working and sapping money out of my mother is just easier… Oh dear, I needed cheering up. Yup, it's just cushty.
You're right! I don't have to do this. I can walk away any time I like. Dang, now if only I hadn't told my mother she need never be afraid of being forced into residential care… What was I thinking?
"There is Medicaid for people who cannot afford care. They can live in a nursing home free of charge. Why live with dysfunctional people who make your life miserable? It makes no sense to me when there clearly is another option."
Sometimes that's not the issue. With land and two houses my mom had over half a mil in assets. She could have sold them and gone into AL, hired someone, gone to a NH...but she didn't WANT to. I moved in here when she was still of sound mind. She was land rich, cash poor. I gave her the majority of my paychecks and tax returns. I moved in here at her request, I didn't just show up at her door one day. I thought I was dealing with age related decline. I thought if things got too bad I could walk...wrong. She refused to sell anything to go anywhere. She wanted to stay in her own home and who could blame her? Who doesn't want to stay in their own home? She refused to give anyone POA. I couldn't force her to give it to anyone. I tried to talk to her about it, tried talking about what would happen if she needed more care than I could give. She wasn't hearing it. Period. She refused to even discuss it at all. A few years into this, when I still had a job I loved, I tried to talk to her about selling something and going into assisted living, hiring someone, something, anything, to take this off of me. No dice. She wasn't selling sh*t and that was that. By the time she declined to the point where she really needed more help than I could give, I couldn't do a damn thing. Nothing. No POA, no selling anything to get her placed. I was stuck like a rat in a trap.
Yeah, I chose to come here and help her. It's called moral obligation. Nobody is a cold blooded beast around here, reguardless of how sh*tty the parent might have been. But I also wanted out within the first 5 years. I told her that strait up. She refused to consider any other option. She wouldn't FREE me. What was I supposed to do? Walk away and leave her alone, knowing she'd been having falls, knowing she left appliances on and having the vision of her burning alive in my head? Great, then I'd have to deal with that guilt, feeling it would be my fault even though on some level I knew it wouldn't be. It's complicated as hell, JC. Yeah, I chose to come and help, but I had no clue what I was getting into. And I damn sure didn't realize at the time that there would literally be no way out. Would you walk away whistling if you knew someone could seriously get into trouble or injure themselves if you did? That's what it freaking felt like. Wrestle with that one and see how it feels. It's not an easy place to be. A lot of care takers are between a rock and a damn hard place and that's just simple reality!
As for doing this for money...Oh Jesus, my mom didn't HAVE enough money, even with all of her assets, to pay me for what I've done for her these last 10-12 years. I want you to try this. Set your alarm clock. Get 3, maybe 4, hours sleep a day. That's it. No more. No matter how tired you feel, keep setting your alarm to get up after just those few hours. If you're sick, too bad. Set your alarm. If you're cranky, tough. Set your alarm. If you simply just don't feel like getting up, sucks for you. Set your alarm. Do this every single day for 1 month. And throw some hard physical labor into the mix while you're at it. I had to wrestle with my 160-170lb mom to get her bathed, dressed, changed, etc, every single day for years on that same amount of sleep. Do that for one lousy month and then tell me how much money it would take for you to keep doing it for YEARS and ask yourself if you think it's worth it, or 'easy' or that caregivers don't deserve compensation. They deserve every freaking dime they get.
"The line of thought that because you've stopped working you deserve any and all money coming to you...it runs dangerously close to the line of thinking that perhaps not working and sapping money out of the elderly is just easier"
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Give me a good old 9 to 5 ANY day of the week!
Ok I know I take funds from my In-laws monies as an agent fee. In their POA it states that is something I can do. So if you have a POA read it through, seek advice from an elder attorney and don't feel guilty for taking the money.
I keep track of every item I purchase for them and reimburse myself for anything I paid for not from their accounts.
I had to quit my job to take care of my MIL 24/7 so I pay myself an agent fee to compensate the loss of income I would have received if I didn't choose to provide care in my home for my MIL.
I have kept track of the utilities etc and have their monies pay for the increase in things like Lights, water, heating fuel etc since MIL moved in (she has her own little apt in our walk out basement so there is a lot more house to heat etc.) Those bills wouldn't have increased but for the fact she is now living here.
After taking all the reimbursements owed I take $2000 a month as my agents fee/salary. Sounds like a lot of salary but at 24/7, 30 days a month that works out to a whopping 2.77 per hour (no where near what I was making). The only draw back will be is you have to make sure to make out a 1099 for taxes.
If no participating siblings don't like that - Oh Well they are not the POA. Again speak to an attorney first they can help determine what in your state and according to your POA what would be good.
Just paid$700 to lawyer to ask these questions.First visit I was told find out what it would cost to put her in OldFolks home, take the most expensive and the cheapest, find a figure in between that you can live off and pay yourself. Yes you need to pay taxes as if being paid by employer. I found prices ran $3600 to $10,000 per month I wanted to stay under $35,000per year for tax reasons. so thats How I figured payment. Second visit he told me if I take mom to Doctor and he writes a note saying she still has basic sound mind he will let my mom sign her house over to me as her caregiver, so I wont have to pay anything or deal with realatives when she passes. She has a will already leaveing house to me but to avoid any contesting greedy realitives who havent seen my mom in many years. I decided to care for my mom and dad because they have been my best friends and fabulous company. When my dad needed help with my mom it was an easy decision to quit my job to care for them. when my dad passed, it was the only thing I wanted to spend this time with her. I dont want to miss one minut with her. Money is not an issue, I use it as needed. She is my family, since I am single and childless, She is all I have left. I love her like crazy! If someone has an unfriendly person they are caring for try the vitamin Lithium, makes a huge diffrence in calmness and sweetness. I take it too
My 92 year old mom moved in with me after being sick and in the hospital. If she didnt live with me she would have had to go in a nursing home. None of my 2 brothers or sister would have taken her in as they wouldn't want to alter their life having the responsibility. My younger sister retire saying it was to help with mom. I still work a 40 hour a week job. I don't get help from family. I hired someone to come in to care for mom 5 hours a day. My boyfriend also is a tremendous help with mom. I asked my mom early on before dementia started could I pay my self a monthly fee and she was very much in agreeance that I do so. I take a fee from her account the first of the month and have no guilt whatsoever. She is welled cared for, with family, well feed and glad not to be in a nursing home. Its not easy to say the least But I wouldn't have it any other way.
Adult children (especially if you are an only child) should be adequately to well compensated to take care of their elderly parent. My mother treated me like crap (she told me when I was 10 years old, she never wanted a daughter...she wanted a son and cried for 3 days after I was born...nice, huh? 60 years later when it became apparent she could not live alone much longer (my father had died 30 years ago from alcoholism...big surprise), I agreed to sell my home and we bought a more suitable home together. However, the mental abuse and "YOU OWE ME" attitude continued for 6 years until the mental and physical stress brought me to a nuclear meltdown...I WAS DONE. I told her I was selling the house, proceeds would be split and then she could do whatever the hell she wanted. And that is what worked because she knew she didn't have any other choices except an assisted-care or nursing home facility. I did all the cleaning, cooking, shopping, yardwork, driving her to all her doctor appointments. I couldn't work full-time because of all her appointments, so I had a very small monthly income...yet she considered all that I did, all that I gave up was valueless to her...it was EXPECTED. There was a big change in her behavior towards me, which mostly likely saved her life because about 4 months later, she had a stroke...if I had not been there, she would have died. She had to spend 3 months in the nursing home to recover, and that is when reality really hit her. The difference has been amazing...she wanted me to get a lawyer so she could sign a POA so I could take care of all financial issues. I have managed to get our house paid off and we are about 6 months out from being debt-free. When I was little, my mother NEVER told me she loved me...now she tells me every night before she goes to bed, "Goodnight Sweetie, I love you!". Sometimes, it takes a hard and scary dose of reality to make some people realize what they have always had but never appreciated.
I believe caregivers should be compensated whenever possible. I too have given up my business, all choices, friends, relationships, my home and my hearing to be a live-in caregiver for my mom first, and now my dad. I mentioned to my sister (my only sibling) that I thought maybe it should be reflected in the inheritance somehow, which is to be divided in thirds between her, her son and myself. Her response was no, because I "get to live there rent free." Why does that exasperate me? I am 60, have no other income and have almost drained my savings taking care of household necessities and dental emergencies. My dad is being ever so careful not to compensate me for taking care of him, because it would take away from what my sister and her son (neither who are involved in the caregiving) would get. AAhhhhh!
I came to a compromise with my brother who cares for my parents full time and lives with them. They have aides come in every morning for 4 hours and my brother comes and goes as he pleases. He has use of my parent's car, does not pay any rent, nor for his cell phone or any other expenses. He gets a small amount each month, which isn't enough for all he does but it is something. He has full access to the bank account and uses the debit card for purchases. I am fully aware that not all the purchases are for the household but say little because of all he does do. I only step in and say something when it gets out of hand. I have no intention of a 50/50 split on the house or the contents, he will get more than what I do because he has BEEN THERE while I am out of state. I work the finances, bills etc. but that is nothing compared to the emotional roller coaster and daily tasks he does without much complaint. What is fair is in the eye of the beholder and there is no right answer.
You deserve to be paid if the parent can afford it. Don't be afraid to ask them for that pay. They may say no to begin with, but when you lay it out reasonably, explaining why and how costs have gone up greatly because of them...take note of all that everyone in here has said and use it for "Ammo" when talking to your parent. Don't fight, don't raise your voice, explain why...then ask them to think about it, gently letting them know that something is going to have to be done. Then give them time to think about it, and be prepared for some arguing, denial, etc... but give them time.
My dad, when confronted by myself on my brother and sis in law's sake, armed with some great advice from those in here, and even a letter written by an angel in here (Forever In Your Debt MaggieMarshall) that I ended up using and IT WORKED! Dad first started by agreeing to pay his portion of the utilities and food, then a couple weeks later started talking about paying my sister in law (who was doing the bulk of the caregiving) and then a week later about paying my brother... By the end of three weeks after receiving the letter, he was paying his portion of the bills, my sister in law 1000.00/mo and my brother 500.00/mo.
It made all the difference in the world...they loved dad and would have continued doing it for free, but the stress would have been much higher as they struggled with finances and emotions. They felt a great weight lifted off their shoulders, and not only did they, but dad did also. He felt less a burden and more a participator in their family life from then on.... It was a blessing to them all for the final three years he lived with them. Eventually he had to move to assisted living due to medical problems, and died shortly thereafter, and he has been genuinally missed. He was surrounded by love...and what better then this at the end of life...
Here's the letter written by MaggieMarshall. Perhaps it will help someone else convince their loved one they need to pay their share and for their care by their loved ones.
You say this: "The last thing we want him to do is resent my brother and sil because he's having to "pay" them to take care of him, care which he, of course, doesn't think he needs...he says they go overboard when they don't need to."
Well, that's not QUITE the last thing you'd want. The LAST thing you'd want is for your brother and sil to think they're being taken advantage of by someone who doesn't appreciate what they're doing for him.
IMO, if you list a whole bunch of things they do for him, you've given him arguing points that he can refute. "They cook for you" becomes his focus...."They hardly EVER cook for me! I cook for myself." In one way or another, you make his argument for him. Point after point, you've given him things he can refute taking his focus off "the big picture". So, I'd suggest something like this:
The reason you should be paying your way, dad, is because everyone pays their way. In an assisted living facility, you might be paying $1500 a month or more--if you even QUALIFY for assisted living. If you need full-blown nursing home care, that figure could be $5,000 or much more.
If you live anywhere other than with _____ and _____, your needs will be secondary to the expediency of staff. Nowhere on EARTH would you get the loving attention that you get here with ______.
_____ and _____ have given up their privacy and peaceful life to give you the greatest gift of all. A circle of love that cares for you and keeps you safe. You're so loved here.
What were you doing at their age, Dad? Were you caring for an elderly parent, helping them keep their independence? Were you sleeping with one ear open so you could hear their footfalls in the middle of the night and get up to make sure they were safe? Were you helping someone to the bathroom five times a day? Fixing their medicines? Taking them to the doctor? [List a bunch of stuff here.]
We both know you weren't. _____ and _____ are giving you a precious gift. Honestly? Money can't even buy that gift. But giving them $1,500 a month [or whatever] shows them that you value everything they're doing for you. It pays them back in a small way for the sacrifices they're making every single day to care for you. It's the very least you can do.
You [and mom] saved all of your lives for a rainy day. It's pouring outside now, dad. Time to help the very people who are holding your umbrella.
It is my sincere wish that you agree to help out _____ and _____ by paying $1,500 a month toward your care. It's the right thing to do. [If you pay his bills for him, continue with this....] Starting August 1st, with your permission, I'm going to start showing them how much we appreciate all they do for you.
I love you dad. We ALL love you. I'm so happy for you that _____ is in your life at this time. You raised a wonderful son. And daughter, of course. ;)
The original post was three years ago. There were twenty-four pages of comments three years ago. There have been a few posts in the past two days, and none of them contain a new question.
PLEASE, no one take this as a criticism, but do we really want to start a rehash of something that was thoroughly discussed years ago? Everyone is entitled to add their comments to any post they care to, but wouldn't that energy be more effective replying to a current question than to a very old one, where the original poster is probably not even around to read your new comment?
This is happening a whole lot more recently. I wonder if it has anything to do with changes to the format of the forum?
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From what you have said, you have received your payment in the form of increasing your net worth. I do not see how that is different from those of us whose net worth has decreased and want to be paid. Most of us do this alone without help from siblings. So, take money from them in the form of their inheritance, to receive payment for the care we provide, you bet! If your net worth had not increase by hundreds of thousands of dollars, how then would you feel about being paid? Why would I want to gift siblings that do not help, in the form of free care for our parent? If we all equally shared in the caring, then yes, you bet, leave the estate intact to split evenly.
I don't have any issue at all concerning what your grandfather has done for you. He did the right thing imo and you're no leech at all in accepting it.
Like Ignorotic said, many people find themselves 24/7 caretakers out of nowhere. I'm an only child. I had my little house, my job, my friends, my life. Then mom started calling and hounding me to move in with her to help her. She's 40 years older than I am. She was also a physical and verbal abuser my entire life. The last damn thing I wanted was to move in with her and deal with her. Unfortunately, I was all there was. There was nobody else. I resisted and refused her for over a year. Guilt and a feeling of moral obligation got me in here. I had no damn idea what I was getting into. I thought she was just getting older, slowing down. About 3 years or so after I got here she told me she had been diagnosed with Alz. Mentally, I heard the bars of a cage clang down around me. I just felt this sense of absolute dread and knew I was in trouble.
To make a long story short, I lost my job, was let go, due to absences related to my mom's health issues. If it wasn't one thing it was another. I was devastated and scared. I developed an anxiety disorder due to constant worry about the future, not to mention the ever increasing stress related to taking care of an alz patient alone. My mom seemed to get worse by the week. Before I knew it I was a 24/7 caretaker, no job, no money coming in, no future, no friends, no support, no nothing. In fact, I financially supported my mom the first 5 years after I moved in here. Our agreement was that I wouldn't have to pay expenses. A month after I got in here my mom dropped the bomb that she was broke and could no longer pay her taxes and bills. No wonder she wanted me in here so bad. So much for saving. So much for anything. This job, and it's the hardest job I've ever done in my life and ever will, utterly consumed me. Not because I'm some martyr with a halo, but because...who else was going to help? I couldn't just walk and leave her alone. My conscience wouldn't allow it.
The toll that this whole situation has taken on me is astronomical. I can't even put into words what dealing with an alz patient, pretty much alone for a decade, has done to me mentally and physically. There is no amount of money that can compensate me for what I've gone through and what I've lost. You have no idea. My mom didn't have enough money to afford me and the 'services' I provided around the clock and neither do most of these parents around here. Most caretakers LOSE in so many, many ways when they assume the care giver role.
As far as I'm concerned, care givers deserve every damn dime their parents have if they assume the care for them to their own detriment because nobody else will stand up. As far as the ones that don't do sh*t, they shouldn't GET sh*t. Who the hell promised THEM a free ride? The parent? Not if they want MY help and support. I'd make that very clear. If I had siblings that dumped that whole load in my lap, walked away and never looked back, living their lives fancy free without a worry in the world and not lifting a single finger for the parents, if it was the last thing I'd ever do I'd make sure they didn't get a single nickel. It has nothing at all to do with greed and everything to do with justice. I put in the hours, I put in the work, I did the sacrificing while they went on vacations and lived life? I'd see them in hell first before they got a single penny and if they came at me with their stupid demands about what THEY were going to get I'd laugh in their face. If I had siblings that dissed me the way some people get dissed around here I wouldn't consider them my siblings for long and I'd sue the damn estate for back pay and tie it up forever before I'd see them have so much as the dust off a copper penny.
Just so you know I am standing in my bedroom clapping!!!!!!!!! YOU GO GIRL!!!
I don't even know if I would do what you wrote but you have had a rough road and you deserve the applause.
And ((( hugs))))
(...and I would actually probably really LOVE to do what you wrote but am too weak. )
The ideal parent will sort his affairs tidily before he is in any danger of becoming incapable. He will also have ensured that his property is unencumbered, and that he has ample funds to cover his own care needs. He will consider his children's deserts fairly, make his decisions accordingly, communicate them with clear explanation, and insist that there is to be no further argument. His children will meekly accept this judgement and remember their parent with honour and gratitude at his demise…
Back in the real world: there isn't enough money to go round, parents don't sort out their care needs or the funding for it, and even if they did no one can predict those reliably, somebody has to step in, it's your parent so no you're not in it for the money, but you still have to eat, and the reality is that the one, five, ten, twenty years you devote to that caregiving is time you can't spend on your own career and retirement plans (pace JCV - some of us are better organised than others, and no I am not having a dig - respect!). Not forgetting that some care situations are infinitely more onerous than others, for all sorts of reasons. Those years do cost. And they cost a heck of a lot more than the average hired carers get paid per hour, too, mainly because they're not paid enough, either. And the years don't just cost money.
SA, I love your ferocity x - but I don't share it. There are all kinds of reasons, again, why I live with my mother and my siblings don't; but in the end it's because I want to and they don't. Blah blah cheap care… blah blah economically insane for me… blah blah what do they do for her… But when it comes to her will, my mother (as far as I know - there could be some Cats Protection League type surprises in store) will treat us all four the same. That's what she thinks is fair, it's what she has always done, and it's HER MONEY. The end.
You're the good daughter. You deserve the lion's share of whatever is there, imo. *shrug*
When I was caring for my aunt, one of her brothers complained nonstop that I didn't pay enough for rent, bills etc...even though I was unable to work for the last 2 years I was caring for her. When she went into the hospital and then a nursing home, I was blamed for that too (she weighed over 400 pounds and was immobile, with a myriad of related medical issues). There was no recognition that she would have been in a nursing home 8 years earlier if I hadn't stepped in.
I got a pittance from medicaid to care for my aunt, and that money didn't even cover the cost of fuel and food for me. After I ran through my savings, I was literally broke. Only luck allowed me stay off of government assistance once my aunt went into the nursing home.
And what really pisses me off is that I think most caregivers are not "martyrs". We simply want people who don't know the details and are only involved to complain to just STAY AWAY, and keep their opinions to themselves. We don't want a pity party.
You're right! I don't have to do this. I can walk away any time I like. Dang, now if only I hadn't told my mother she need never be afraid of being forced into residential care… What was I thinking?
Sometimes that's not the issue. With land and two houses my mom had over half a mil in assets. She could have sold them and gone into AL, hired someone, gone to a NH...but she didn't WANT to. I moved in here when she was still of sound mind. She was land rich, cash poor. I gave her the majority of my paychecks and tax returns. I moved in here at her request, I didn't just show up at her door one day. I thought I was dealing with age related decline. I thought if things got too bad I could walk...wrong. She refused to sell anything to go anywhere. She wanted to stay in her own home and who could blame her? Who doesn't want to stay in their own home? She refused to give anyone POA. I couldn't force her to give it to anyone. I tried to talk to her about it, tried talking about what would happen if she needed more care than I could give. She wasn't hearing it. Period. She refused to even discuss it at all. A few years into this, when I still had a job I loved, I tried to talk to her about selling something and going into assisted living, hiring someone, something, anything, to take this off of me. No dice. She wasn't selling sh*t and that was that. By the time she declined to the point where she really needed more help than I could give, I couldn't do a damn thing. Nothing. No POA, no selling anything to get her placed. I was stuck like a rat in a trap.
Yeah, I chose to come here and help her. It's called moral obligation. Nobody is a cold blooded beast around here, reguardless of how sh*tty the parent might have been. But I also wanted out within the first 5 years. I told her that strait up. She refused to consider any other option. She wouldn't FREE me. What was I supposed to do? Walk away and leave her alone, knowing she'd been having falls, knowing she left appliances on and having the vision of her burning alive in my head? Great, then I'd have to deal with that guilt, feeling it would be my fault even though on some level I knew it wouldn't be. It's complicated as hell, JC. Yeah, I chose to come and help, but I had no clue what I was getting into. And I damn sure didn't realize at the time that there would literally be no way out. Would you walk away whistling if you knew someone could seriously get into trouble or injure themselves if you did? That's what it freaking felt like. Wrestle with that one and see how it feels. It's not an easy place to be. A lot of care takers are between a rock and a damn hard place and that's just simple reality!
As for doing this for money...Oh Jesus, my mom didn't HAVE enough money, even with all of her assets, to pay me for what I've done for her these last 10-12 years. I want you to try this. Set your alarm clock. Get 3, maybe 4, hours sleep a day. That's it. No more. No matter how tired you feel, keep setting your alarm to get up after just those few hours. If you're sick, too bad. Set your alarm. If you're cranky, tough. Set your alarm. If you simply just don't feel like getting up, sucks for you. Set your alarm. Do this every single day for 1 month. And throw some hard physical labor into the mix while you're at it. I had to wrestle with my 160-170lb mom to get her bathed, dressed, changed, etc, every single day for years on that same amount of sleep. Do that for one lousy month and then tell me how much money it would take for you to keep doing it for YEARS and ask yourself if you think it's worth it, or 'easy' or that caregivers don't deserve compensation. They deserve every freaking dime they get.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Give me a good old 9 to 5 ANY day of the week!
I keep track of every item I purchase for them and reimburse myself for anything I paid for not from their accounts.
I had to quit my job to take care of my MIL 24/7 so I pay myself an agent fee to compensate the loss of income I would have received if I didn't choose to provide care in my home for my MIL.
I have kept track of the utilities etc and have their monies pay for the increase in things like Lights, water, heating fuel etc since MIL moved in (she has her own little apt in our walk out basement so there is a lot more house to heat etc.)
Those bills wouldn't have increased but for the fact she is now living here.
After taking all the reimbursements owed I take $2000 a month as my agents fee/salary. Sounds like a lot of salary but at 24/7, 30 days a month that works out to a whopping 2.77 per hour (no where near what I was making). The only draw back will be is you have to make sure to make out a 1099 for taxes.
If no participating siblings don't like that - Oh Well they are not the POA.
Again speak to an attorney first they can help determine what in your state and according to your POA what would be good.
Second visit he told me if I take mom to Doctor and he writes a note saying she still has basic sound mind he will let my mom sign her house over to me as her caregiver, so I wont have to pay anything or deal with realatives when she passes. She has a will already leaveing house to me but to avoid any contesting greedy realitives who havent seen my mom in many years.
I decided to care for my mom and dad because they have been my best friends and fabulous company. When my dad needed help with my mom it was an easy decision to quit my job to care for them. when my dad passed, it was the only thing I wanted to spend this time with her. I dont want to miss one minut with her. Money is not an issue, I use it as needed. She is my family, since I am single and childless, She is all I have left. I love her like crazy! If someone has an unfriendly person they are caring for try the vitamin Lithium, makes a huge diffrence in calmness and sweetness. I take it too
My dad, when confronted by myself on my brother and sis in law's sake, armed with some great advice from those in here, and even a letter written by an angel in here (Forever In Your Debt MaggieMarshall) that I ended up using and IT WORKED! Dad first started by agreeing to pay his portion of the utilities and food, then a couple weeks later started talking about paying my sister in law (who was doing the bulk of the caregiving) and then a week later about paying my brother... By the end of three weeks after receiving the letter, he was paying his portion of the bills, my sister in law 1000.00/mo and my brother 500.00/mo.
It made all the difference in the world...they loved dad and would have continued doing it for free, but the stress would have been much higher as they struggled with finances and emotions. They felt a great weight lifted off their shoulders, and not only did they, but dad did also. He felt less a burden and more a participator in their family life from then on.... It was a blessing to them all for the final three years he lived with them. Eventually he had to move to assisted living due to medical problems, and died shortly thereafter, and he has been genuinally missed. He was surrounded by love...and what better then this at the end of life...
Here's the letter written by MaggieMarshall. Perhaps it will help someone else convince their loved one they need to pay their share and for their care by their loved ones.
You say this: "The last thing we want him to do is resent my brother and sil because he's having to "pay" them to take care of him, care which he, of course, doesn't think he needs...he says they go overboard when they don't need to."
Well, that's not QUITE the last thing you'd want. The LAST thing you'd want is for your brother and sil to think they're being taken advantage of by someone who doesn't appreciate what they're doing for him.
IMO, if you list a whole bunch of things they do for him, you've given him arguing points that he can refute. "They cook for you" becomes his focus...."They hardly EVER cook for me! I cook for myself." In one way or another, you make his argument for him. Point after point, you've given him things he can refute taking his focus off "the big picture". So, I'd suggest something like this:
The reason you should be paying your way, dad, is because everyone pays their way. In an assisted living facility, you might be paying $1500 a month or more--if you even QUALIFY for assisted living. If you need full-blown nursing home care, that figure could be $5,000 or much more.
If you live anywhere other than with _____ and _____, your needs will be secondary to the expediency of staff. Nowhere on EARTH would you get the loving attention that you get here with ______.
_____ and _____ have given up their privacy and peaceful life to give you the greatest gift of all. A circle of love that cares for you and keeps you safe. You're so loved here.
What were you doing at their age, Dad? Were you caring for an elderly parent, helping them keep their independence? Were you sleeping with one ear open so you could hear their footfalls in the middle of the night and get up to make sure they were safe? Were you helping someone to the bathroom five times a day? Fixing their medicines? Taking them to the doctor? [List a bunch of stuff here.]
We both know you weren't. _____ and _____ are giving you a precious gift. Honestly? Money can't even buy that gift. But giving them $1,500 a month [or whatever] shows them that you value everything they're doing for you. It pays them back in a small way for the sacrifices they're making every single day to care for you. It's the very least you can do.
You [and mom] saved all of your lives for a rainy day. It's pouring outside now, dad. Time to help the very people who are holding your umbrella.
It is my sincere wish that you agree to help out _____ and _____ by paying $1,500 a month toward your care. It's the right thing to do. [If you pay his bills for him, continue with this....] Starting August 1st, with your permission, I'm going to start showing them how much we appreciate all they do for you.
I love you dad. We ALL love you. I'm so happy for you that _____ is in your life at this time. You raised a wonderful son. And daughter, of course. ;)
Love,
Your Name...
PLEASE, no one take this as a criticism, but do we really want to start a rehash of something that was thoroughly discussed years ago? Everyone is entitled to add their comments to any post they care to, but wouldn't that energy be more effective replying to a current question than to a very old one, where the original poster is probably not even around to read your new comment?
This is happening a whole lot more recently. I wonder if it has anything to do with changes to the format of the forum?
It's obviously far cheaper than professional care.
would pay for aged care.
my mother always said, You look after your own first"