What can one do to help parents when they put off doing any paperwork such as wills, POA, etc?

Wow. I skipped the earlier reference, but was curious when jacobsonbob re-posted it with his comment. Wow. What a racket! Was it surprising that this was in NV? Not really, but it can happen anywhere! What is surprising is that they are not required to keep records - really? In checking out guardianship/stewardship, my understanding is that the court requires detailed accounting from the guardian/steward at least on a yearly basis (MA.) Even SS and the pension our mom has will require me to provide accounting yearly to ensure the funds are spent appropriately (this will be easy for me, because the two only cover about 1/2 of her "rent", so that's all that will be reported. The rest of the "rent" and any other expenses are covered by a trust fund - I only need to provide accounting of that to my brothers, should they ask, but I'm just as squeaky cheap with her money as with my own! We need it to last as long as possible!)

Even worse, it may not matter if you have all your affairs in order and DPOA... from what I learned about guardianship/stewardship, a person being considered is entitled to their own attorney (one can be appointed, but will be billed), however if they are not aware of this and don't ask for it. Guardianship/stewardship CAN override DPOA!  In the case reported, they found ways to prevent having a client attorney, even by keeping the person out of court! Here the judge would be required to see the person, to make his/her own determination.  So keep good tabs on your LOs even if you are managing their affairs! If they are living alone, they can be scammed by so many people, but this is just the worst! To have them argue that they are protecting these elders and their assets (NOT), and in particular from their own family, yeeesh.

There have been a few people posting to threads here that warn us all against letting family be POA, but their methods of "protecting" themselves and their assets would be swept away easily by this kind of abuse! While there are family members who take advantage of elders, this is worse than any case I have ever read about!

I'm with you Bob, that article was a shock and an eye opener.

I am an American living in Mexico. I could believe that the scenario I was reading about was happening here in Mexico (where many government officials are corrupt-it's out in the open) but for this to have been *allowed* to happen in the United States of America is absolutely shameful. And to think so many were on "the take", where it profited them greatly to illegally do these dirty deeds to fine American citizens who had worked hard all their lives. Also, the anguish suffered by their families as they were told they "had no right to visit their own parents". Son of a gun, I'm mad.

There should be a "house cleaning" of all corrupt "Guardians" in Nevada and many new laws passed to make sure family would be in charge, especially if spelled out in legal paperwork.
ALL the affected parties should file a joint lawsuit against the state of Nevada for kidnapping, robbery/theft, pain and suffering, entrapment, assault and battery and lying under false pretenses. I hope they or their families win billions. They deserve to be treated as humans not cattle.

Thankfully, this was brought to light. At least the truth has been exposed and hopefully a round up of the dishonest jack-a**es will continue to take place. I would hate to be them on Judgement Day. How do you answer to the Most High for your actions?

Thanks DownSouth. Elder abuse for sure.

I'm glad that my mother is here in the same city as I am. They can't cross the border to take her away!

Thanks, disgustedtto and SueC1957, for your respective comments. Yes, there are scammers out there, but one would hope that the government isn't one of them. From a story I read some years ago (about the police stopping people in Louisiana and arbitrarily confiscating their property--and I've read since then that this also has happened in other states), it seems (and I hope it's true!) that scams in the US sooner or later get out in the open and dealt with--but probably not before a lot of damage has been done to some innocent people. I guess the moral is that any agency in any country can become corrupt, and the more power one gets the greater the opportunity according to the saying "absolute power corrupts absolutely".

Has this happened in any of the other countries in which members of our group are located?

Stilltired, I had the same situation with my parents. I had to break away after my father’s passing due to my narcissistic mother becoming even more mean to me. I would have fully helped my father and even welcome him to live with me. I didn’t think any legal papers needed when they both had each other. Now being thankful and careful for what you wish for and not ever going to do a POA or guardianship for my mother. She now has no set schedule, sleeps during the day and stays out all night, doesn’t bath or eat nourishing food, chain smokes and started drinking and gambling. I was at my wits end seeing this behavior. I was constantly worried about her. Then after one of the worst episodes of my life being treated so disrespectfully by her I cut her. I was raised to respect your elders and they were always right but, I stood up for myself to her for once in my life and told her how unfair she was to me. And sure enough no empathy whatsoever and never a another word from her or apology for her cruelness. If she ever needs help it will not be from me as a lifetime of dysfunction from her. And glad she knows it now rather than too late when it would have all been dumped on me. Or when the “entitled” siblings mooch her last dime away. It just took my DH and children to make me see the light. I hope you find resolution soon and your parents are loving, kind and appreciate to have your concerns for them.

jacobsonbob (and anyone else interested);
This confiscation of property has many names (articles I have read said civil forfeiture and yes indeed it happens in MANY states!) This does not just happen in Louisiana and this kind of abuse continues to happen today.

Wikipedia:
"Civil forfeiture in the United States, also called civil asset forfeiture or civil judicial forfeiture or occasionally civil seizure, is a controversial legal process in which law enforcement officers take assets from persons suspected of involvement with crime or illegal activity without necessarily charging the owners with wrongdoing."

How it can possibly be legal to take, and often sell, someone's property, when no arrest is made, no charges are filed, and there is no proof the person did ANYTHING illegal is dumbfounding. Enter 'civil forfeiture abuse' in your search and be amazed (and totally disgusted!) at how many "hits" you get! A few people had the means to fight back and get some of their property back, but others do NOT have the means and can lose substantial property through this abuse!

Again, thank you all for your answers. Disgustedtoo, when I mention paperwork, I do not mention it in the context of death - that is just what his suspicious mind jumps too. On another note, I have spoken with him about the debts that will be left to my mother if he passes before her - the mortgage that is tied into the home equity loan, the car payment, the credit card bills, etc. His answer was that one of "us" would take care of her. I was speechless to say the least. He says that he earned that money through his military related illness and it is his to spend when it comes every month. He has plowed through their small savings and like I stated before, my mother will not even help herself by setting up a separate savings account in her name only so that he can't access it. She does not have dementia, it more like a "learned helplessness" type of thing or really strong denial, or maybe she thinks that a miracle will save her, I do not know. As to how they are getting so many types of junk food - my father sends relatives to the store to buy it, daily. He panics if he thinks there will be no ice cream, no cookies, no milk, no bread, etc. when the stash gets low. I am doing less now.

Bear in mind that a will can be revoked up until a person is deemed incompetent by a judge. In my case, my mother had a will in place for 25 years leaving everything to me because I am an only child and she had no other immediate family. My children were minors at the time and my husband of 30 years always had been her executor. She lived with us in a new house that had a mother-daughter lay out. Once she was moved to the memory care unit at the assisted living place I had chosen, from the geriatric psychiatric hospital she was at for 6 weeks observation (which two psychiatrists had her committed to) then she was put in contact with the smooth unethical lawyers that isolated her and got her to change her will and eventually one became her legal guardian right before her death. My mother died all alone at a mere 70 pounds and had been kept isolated by daily visits where the lawyers or their wives pretty much brainwashed her. We hope that my story will go public, but it’s very difficult to find magazines or newspapers that are willing to investigate and publish. And after spending 6 figure $$ amounts  in outrageous attorney fees to try to obtain guardianship initially, there are no attorneys that are willing to take a complex case like this on contingency. I think the judge and the attorneys and the assisted living facility all had an agreement to work together on wiping out my mother’s assets and possibly going after mine, if they could have. I wish there was a way to warn more people in NJ of these terrible fiends that call themselves “officers of the court”. My poor dear father must be turning in his grave knowing that my mother was completely taken advantage of. Right down to having all her Italian gold jewelry and her wedding band stolen. Just horrible

Stilltired, you have a couple of different big issues here, which I know isn't news to you. First the paperwork and for me particularly the POA and medical decisions given the way your father is behaving. My guess is he does have some diagnose-able cognitive issues, dementia/Alzheimer based on his increasing secretive and obsessive behavior but I'm not doctor and I would get the legal stuff done before any diagnosis if you can. Maybe you can play to his obsession with having enough money by letting him know how concerned you are about what could happen without this paperwork being done. Maybe even leave the will out of this conversation in case talking about them together triggers something he is resisting. But let him know that without the POA it's easier for the state to step in and take control which would mean they would loose all control of their finances. If something unexpected happened, he or your mom has a stroke for instance (this happens to people in their 40's and various things can set it off so not just related to their health in case he feels it doesn't run in family...I forget what you said dad's medical issues are but maybe one of them make him more prone?) it could easily leave them unable to express themselves or make decisions about care for a while (aphasia) and or unable to move a side of their body also inhibiting speech or both. Neither of these things are automatically permanent and with the proper care can either be overcome completely or a great deal from what they suffer initially. But the proper care isn't always what the state will provide or advocate for, they will do the minimum typically leaving it to the hospital and rehab facilities to decide. The only way to guarantee a family advocate and making sure his wishes are carried out is to give you or the person they feel most comfortable with who will also be around and willing to put in the time and effort....you get my point. Any hospital visit now given their age and that they live alone without an "official" caregiver/spokesperson means someone else will evaluate their living situation and can force a change which would mean the state steps in takes over their funds and houses them...ok maybe a bit dramatic but maybe he needs it. Whatever it takes based on fact to frighten him enough about controlling his money that will get him jumping on the legal paperwork. Maybe lay it on thick about how he doesn't loose control this way, he isn't giving you all the control he is sharing it with you so that you can take over in the event it's necessary for a period of time. Then once you have those ducks in order you can move int a will, might be an easier sell even at that point and gradually but immediately start using some of the methods for taking control of and protecting the finances, find ways to do this without making him feel like he has lost all control.

The other big battle you have is getting them to help care for themselves, day to day. This can be a tough one for sure. My mom is diabetic amongst several other major medical conditions so eating properly and regularly is vital yet we struggle with getting her to do it everyday. It's not that she isn't a healthy eater, I mean buys and eats healthy foods for the most part, the problem is she has it stuck in her head that she needs to loose weight and that when her weight goes up by a couple pounds in a day (she has a water retention issue we have to watch carefully) it's because she over ate and it isn't. She makes a meal out of lettuce and tomatoes, she would eat that for 3 meals a day if we let her. She will also go without eating at all for day ("one day isn't a big deal") if left to her own devices yet if you put a full meal in front of her she will devour it so the problem is not really her appetite. I get it though, going through the hassle of cooking or making a whole meal just for yourself is hard, it just doesn't seem worth the effort and in your parents case (it would be the same with my mom if it were around) the sweets they have around aren't only enticing and basically filling they are easy to just pick up and eat. Tasty and no prep involved. It takes a little planning and my mom wants to prove her ability to still care for herself so once I make something for her she likes that's easy enough she will make it for herself but I try to come up with things like homemade chicken soup in the crock pot that makes several meals she can either have in the fridge, freeze or both so it's easy to pull it out and reheat in the microwave. Maybe your daughter could do an afternoon of cooking and packaging meals or something for them that they can then reheat for themselves for the week. Would your mom maybe enjoy doing that with her so a project they do together? Might it help motivate them if they each (mom and dad) felt it was important for the others health and care? It certainly sounds like they could both use some medical attention where some of the emotional issues could be addressed along with physical, it might be very helpful to review their meds and dosage as well as whether or not they are taking meds properly at home. Providing they have a decent doctor familiar with elderly issues this could also be your link to other help for them. My mom's PC has refereed VNA to make sure she has a plan for and is able to take care of meds at home, the home is safe for her and to send a social worker out to figure out what services she might qualify for or need and get, her options. This was a huge help to us because while we were there and part of it all my mom felt in control, it wasn't us (her kids) coming in and telling her what she could and couldn't do. Somehow a "professional" saying she needs this or that is more acceptable then her family suggesting the same thing...go figure! But she also has a healthy fear of her PC's power to say she can't live on her own anymore or move her to some sort of assisted living, I'm not even clear exactly what or how much power she thinks her doctors have but it works in our favor because we are fortunate enough to have a great working relationship with her main doctors in particular and they are providers she has had for many years so she also trusts them and they know her. But my point really is that your parents providers may be a very helpful resource in getting things either working better at home for them or getting them in a better situation that will enable them to thrive more than exist they way they are. It takes a village to provide and manage one elders care, you have 2 loved ones who need care and aren't helping you and themselves, you and your daughter even if your sister were fully involved as well, just can't do it alone not should you have to. Find ways to reach out for help from people without the emotional attachment, trust me the demands on your time and energy will continue to increase and anything you can do to relieve some pressure and actually enjoy the time and moments you have with your parent's rather than dread them is as much a plus for you as it is for them.

What I meant when I said "dad's take on paperwork (only for death)" was that HE perceives it all as being for death.

I came back here because a recent "newsletter" from AgingCare included a link to the differences between DPOA and Springing POA. This might be of some help with him, especially if you can focus on the part about illness and injury and that it will COST HIM a lot of money for you to gain guardianship so that you can assist him! Also focus on the fact that the document can specifically say WHEN not just that you can take over. HE gets to decide that NOW. When he is incapable (hospitalized, unable to communicate, etc.) then he cannot - this can also focus on having the state step in and take over (a copy of that news story about how these state legal "guardians" took everything away, including family might be enlightening as well!)

SEE:
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/what-is-durable-power-of-attorney-140233.htm?

Edit: Of course even if he agrees to this, it really will not solve the current issues.  However if he WILL agree to draw up something, it will be there if/when the time comes that he is not competent (although this also states the DPOA is in effect when signed, it does not mean one has to take over at that point - we did not, and took over things on an as needed basis.