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My my mom went from the hospital to the nursing home and she's refusing to sign the admission papers. The nursing home wants one of her children to file for Guardianship and none of us want to. What happens if her children refuse to file for guardianship?

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In the case of my stepFIL an organization called Lutheran Brotherhood was his legal guardian. I was in communication with a few individuals there during that time, so I'm thinking maybe more than one person was his guardian so that there was transparency and accountability. I do know one person was supervisor for his case.
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Read Dr. Sugar’s book Guardianship The Elderly The Perfect Crime or watch Netflix Dirty Money episode Guardian Inc. and your family may change their minds about guardianship.
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Geez, I wish that were the case for myself and my mom. I fought tooth and nail to try and get doctors to help me with guardianship. They wouldn't do it, because she 'seemed' sharp as a tack. As my attorney put it . . . "AHhh! . . .She put on a good show for the doctors!. Know that well!"

If I had the chance to get quardianship, I know my mom would probably be alive today. I would of moved her closer to me, and interacted with her on a weekly if not daily basis (in AL , not in my home) Yeah . she would've hemmed and hawed about AL , but if she were able to interact more with me and others in her peer group while I had legal control - it would've been much different for her and with time in AL she wouldve discovered a whole new world. I know this.

My husband is 75 , and is in physical decline, even he is exploring in-home help or AL while I'm in another state dealing with my mom's death and estate clean-up.

I have POA, and he's assigned me successor trustee and has directives already in place. We know the plan.

We went through all this with his mother 15 years ago. We never needed guardianship - she WAS sharp as a tack until 24 hours before her death. She held off on morphine until she just couldn't bear the pain any longer. 24 hours of morphone (in home hospice) . . Her body failed her at 78 of Pancreatic cancer.

Anyway . . the state will be the ward if you won't. And do you really want that for your parent? So, it's either one of YOU, or the STATE. Depending on what your end game is, those are your choices.

"The devil is in the details"
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Jsutton412 Jul 2020
My mom also put on a good show for the Dr.s!!! I guess its called "SHOW TIMING" and she got away with it for a long time.. At least 2 years. Even after I had Drs. do the SLUMS test, and she got a 15 out of 30, and was still able to put up a fight saying there is nothing wrong with her.. Her mind is fine! After we would leave the Drs office it was back to the same ways.
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I’ve read more on this yes if you don’t sign the hospital will call APS they will do an investigation on why you are refusing to sign care for your mother. She needs someone to make sure she gets the care. So if no other family members want to sign or has power to appoint because she doesn’t have a will or trust then they will appoint a guardian. The family I responsible for selling her assets if she has any. Her home etc hen when that money runs out to about two thousand dollars then she or your family can file for her to go on Medicaid that’s if she doesn’t have a significant living in the home if she has one. If mom has no money she can apply for Medicaid until that her assets and or family is responsible. I had to cover my mom’s expenses until I sold her house I’m DPOA and POA. She has money now from the sale when that runs out then she can get Medicaid. Being a guardian if one isn’t appointed by the court then that person is responsible to get the bills paid and is legally responsible for her. You can request a medical guardian. They are responsible for her Medical care. But the family is still responsible to make sure everything gets paid until Medicaid can step in . A lot of people don’t know this. I found out the hard way. Hopefully mom has good insurance that can help in these situations also if she got insurance prior to getting ill I can’t remember what it’s called but I wish my mother would have gotten it. It helps elevate hospital bills for the future so the family doesn’t get stuck in a predicament like I did. I had to pay for everything out of pocket my mom was financially exploited and lost everything. Thank goodness she still had her house to sell or I would have had to go bankrupt. You have a responsibility to your parents if people no that or not and they stick it to you if your the sibling like it or not. I wish your family well and hope someone steps in to handle this situation soon before it becomes a nasty expensive situation. Once a state guardian is appointed attorneys will have to get involved and that becomes very expensive. I’d actually call an elder law attorney myself to find out how to figure this situation out. Good luck
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mstrbill Jul 2020
Denise the family does not have to pay their own money to cover other family member's bills. Family is not responsible. Nor does family have to obtain guardianship if they wish not to.
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Did she not sign up to have a POA Trust or Will. I believe the DPOA durable medical person appointed has the authority to place her in the hospital. But if she has non of the above then the hospital will ask for a guardian to step in so she can get the care she needs. She’s putting herself in danger and they are just asking for you to do it because like I said putting herself in danger of she needs to be in the hospital. You can have. Guardian just to handle her medical needs they don’t necessarily talk over your mother and estate. They are just their to make sure she will sign to be cared for. The DPOA if she has one can sign her in. She’s probably just scared as most elderly are to go in the hospital thinking they will not go home. Good luck 🍀
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Jsutton412 Jul 2020
No POA trust or will
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Actually with Dementia your Mom is not capable to sign any papers. They would not be valid. No one has mentioned the cost of guardianship. Some people on here have been quoted 10k or more. And then ur responsible to the state to keep them up to date on her care and finances.

I just told the story of my friend. She was in rehab. It was determined that she needed 24/7 care. I assume that her POA could not care for her. The last place my friend wanted to be was LTC for the rest of her life. I asked my daughter ( worked rehab/NHs 20 yrs) if she could be forced to stay there and she said yes. If someone would not care for her or she could afford 24/7 care, they could not do an unsafe discharge. Not sure if state took over or the POA is still in place.

I would not take over guardianship unless u can afford to do it. It really all depends on the kind of relationship you had with Mom to how you handle this. But if you refuse, then the State will take over.
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Tell the Nursing Home that you do not wish to and that you have no intention of applying for Guardianship, if you do not wish to.
This may mean that the Nursing Home and their Social Workers apply for her through the State Courts so that her bills can be paid, and her money managed. This would ALSO MEAN that you have ZERO to say about what happens to her after that. The state will manage her care as it would be managed if she had no children at all. They will decide what level of care she gets, pay her bills, manage her accounts, decide where she is placed and etc. They are now her "children' there to make decisions for her when she cannot.
Be certain that NONE OF YOU sign papers for her. You don't have that right if you are not POA or guardian, and you would be liable if your name was on it.
Guardianship is heavy duty. You are responsible for everything for her from placement to bills to decisions re health care and etc. If you are not up to that best to know it now. There is careful record keeping needed, and you have to go for SS "representative payee" which is a whole other process, etc.
You might benefit from going together as her children to an Elder Law Attorney (approx 350.00 for an hours consult) to find out the ramifications of what will happen whichever way you go. Ask the Nursing Home if they can suggest a good Elder Law Attorney to see before you make any decisions, or find one in your area. Good luck. Hope you update us as to your choice and how it is working for you.
One more word of caution...remember, if the state is in charge then they are in charge. She may not even be placed in a town near you.
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Your mother will be assigned a state paid guardian. My bf is a paralegal who works for a guardianship attorney. He only handles clients who are court appointed to guardianship. He has a team that handles their finances and nurses who visit them in the nursing homes regularly and watch over their care in terms of what their needs are. Family members can’t be forced to be the guardian. Sometimes state appointed guardianship happens because the adult children live so far away. It’s not uncommon
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To me, the first issues are why your mother won't sign the admission documents.  Your profile indicates she has dementia.  Do you think that's part of her refusal to sign?    But another issue would be whether or not she has "capacity" to understand and sign, and whether her signature would be valid under those circumstances.   

What was the reason for her hospitalization, and where was she living before?   Assuming she wasn't at this particular NH, was she at home, or in a different AL facility?

Personally I think going for guardianship is a big leap and requires serious consideration.    But I also think the reason for her refusal to sign is a critical factor, including whether or not she has other alternatives for a residence.\

I would also suggest you speak in a guarded fashion with reps of the NH as they may decide to go for guardianship themselves, and as mentioned already, that could take total control away from the family.

One of the attorneys I worked for was involved in that kind of case; it was appalling how much the appointed counsel for the guardian ripped off the estate, as well as how much the guardian dipped his own hands into the older woman's finances.   

I am adamantly opposed to hiring "professional" guardians; the family loses total control and the older person is opened to financial abuse.   

First, though, please give us more background on the situation.  It might be that the family could file for joint guardianship (two or more family members) just to keep commercial hands out of the finances.
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Jsutton412 Jul 2020
Yes the Dementia is the reason she cant sign. Shes is "not of sound mind" is the way the put it.. She has no residence anymore. She had a fall in her apartment at the end of May, and its went downhill since. FAST. After they said she would need 24hour care we knew she couldn't have her own apartment anymore.
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The court can appoint a Guardian and this is what would happen if you do not want to be her Guardian.
The doctor will have to sign papers indicating that she is unable to make decisions for herself.
The Nursing home should have a Social Worker that can help with this process or answer questions.
Talk to an Elder Care Attorney and get the process started.
Money to pay for the Lawyer will come from moms funds not yours. (where I live the court also set a cap on what the lawyer could charge for services.)
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The hospital needs to move Mother on if she has finished in acute care & is recommending NH. If she signs the NH papers, off she goes. If won't sign, but hospital feel it's necessary, testing is required to decide if Mother is capable of making her own decisions for her living arrangements. (Or maybe a diagnosis of dementia at a certain level is sufficient).

The NH needs signed papers so yes, they will ask for a Guardianship order. Only alternative I can think of is if hospital initiate the Guardianship application instead. They can, but will prefer family to do so as it saves their social worker much work.

Same result either way. Family member becomes Guardian or State takes over.

In this case I would try to upsell the chosen NH to Mother - to make it seem HER choice. Mum, it's this place YOU are choosing or SOME NH THE STATE CHOOSES FOR YOU.
Worth a try...?

Sometimes a kindly Doctor sways them... Sometimes they play merry-go-round of Hospital-Rehab-Home-Hosptal until the fight is worn out & they sign or the family is worn out & apply as Guardianship to get off the circuit.

What level dementia would you say your Mother has?
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Just so that you understand that once the county gets guardianship you have no control over anything for your mom. You'll have no say in what facility she goes into, no say over her medical care and you will be locked out of all of her assets. When she passes family will receive an itemized reckoning of her care expenses and what they spent her assets on. Not sure what happens if anything is left over, probably goes to probate but I'm not sure. They will cremate her with no ceremony and call to see who wants her ashes. This was our experience with my stepFIL. I wish you peace in your hearts as you make decisions.
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Being responsible for someone as their Guardian is a huge responsibility. I’d consider all that’s involved before volunteering. It’s compounded if they are not cooperative and fight you on every point.

I’d consult with an attorney for your options. Many places, any interested party can petition the court to have someone deemed incompetent and ask that a Guardian be appointed. If family doesn’t want to serve, you can ask the court to appoint a professional person, like an attorney, who has experience in doing it.

If no family member files, eventually, someone else might, like the county social services, it their investigation indicates that she is in need of intervention for her own welfare.
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They will involve the state and they will take guardianship. (Assigning a professional guardian.)

Don't let anyone bully any of you into becoming her guardian if you don't want to do it.
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