Help At Home aide needs to clean more, but my dad won't let her. What can I do?

If you can , figure out a way to  get him back in assited living. Yes I know, hindsight is always 20/20.

Lower your standards. A whole lot. I care for my folks long distance. I'm visiting now. Couple years ago I'd have big fights because they won't let me get any help, cleaning etc in the house.

So after fighting I'd run around like an idiot cleaning my self to death. I don't argue or clean anymore. Everyone is much happier, less stressed.
I still do the basic stuff, dishes, laundry, vacuum, gather up trash and junk. But windows, mopping, dusting, deep cleaning, no more.
If they don't care that the windows are filthy why should I.

I'm a 62 year old guy. My standards are not that high to begin with but I try  to at least  keep their place up to basic animal house standards.  I make sure the rotten food goes out, bad smells are tracked down, just basic stuff.

You have to find that balance of keeping basic hygiene and safety with old stubborn folks. Dust bunnies? Who cares....

One question - - - who is paying for the 'at home' service? Who's name is on the ownership papers for the cabin?

Dust bunnies I get along with well, even in my own house! It's the food he leaves everywhere and there's gotta be POO/pee scattered around by the looks of poopy/wet laundry lying around. Door knobs freak me out touching them there! There's no way I can get him back to AL now. He's an accident waiting to happen...he is legally blind from uncontrolled diabetes. Last  year our attorney told us we could buy his property on contract.  We own the 4 acres connected to his property already, that happened years ago. He got himself on Medicaid in 2009and  knowingly failed to report that he had property so now he's losing his Medicaid starting September 1 and we don't know if he'll be able to get back on it. That's another can of stinky worms! I never understood this whole contract thing and doubted it from the very beginning of last year when it got started because of him being on Medicaid. We didn't want to lose the property so we are buying it at market value which is $109,000 and from what I understand we would pay him monthly but what my dad doesn't understand that monthly payment will eventually go to Medicaid. I told my husband we should just buy it right now pay my dad and then he turns around and gives it back to Medicaid...who cares!  I obviously don't understand how Medicaid works and I am learning here as much as I can every day. 
He owes assisted-living $21,000 since he was Medicaid pending and had carotid artery surgery last September.  Those bills were over $100,000 but supposedly covered by Medicaidat the times.  Come to find out my dad did not report his property back in 2009  which has thrown up 1 million red flags and now they're asking 1 million questions and years of bank statements.  It's  been awful and time-consuming and my dad does not give a crap that we have to do all this paperwork for him. My husband says although we paid for the cabin my dad has to purchase it from us ( which husband says the value of the cabin will come off of the value of the property) and then he turns around and gives it back to Medicaid, this just boggles my mind because that doesn't even make sense to me. Too much juggling around of stuff for my mind to handle.  Medicaid does deserve their money because theyve been paying his  medical bills, he gets cheaper prescriptions and Help At Home care for all these years. Now that he's back home he cashes his Social Security check of $634 every month and spends it however he wants on stupid stuff. He bought a used Bose radio from his Help At Home girl for $100 and she recently put him on her cell phone plan...we bought him a cell phone years ago and has been paying his way on that the whole time till like a month ago...she convinced him to get on her plan which was supposedly cheaper and to have phone that he can "handle". I am very happy to not be paying his minutes anymore but how can this be cheaper for him if he is going to have a cell phone bill with her for $30 a month !?!  Is paying his utility bills    
Crazy !! 
We've lived in our home for 30 years, this is where I grew up and wanted to be even though of my dysfunctional divorced dad.   Husband and kids and soon-to-be granddaughter are attached to this place but I don't care anymore I want to let it all go I really don't care. I'm tired of working it so he doesn't see his property get auctioned away or sold or completely gone to the government. We are not trying to hide anything from the government and are willing to pay the fair market value.  I never understood the whole concept of this contract deal to pay him monthly to supplement his Social Security check. 



It never made sense to me because he's on Medicaid    I don't get it!!!
Right now Medicaid has been picking up the bill for Help At Home but I'm assuming that's going to stop September 1.  The secretary at the assisted living where he was told me he's only covered until September 1 and then he will probably need to buy a supplement insurance to his Medicare

Bella, if your father didn't disclose property and got Medicaid under false pretenses - if you don't have a lawyer now, you need one. The property you talk about buying may not be his to sell - there should have been a lien on it unless it was an exempt asset. If Medicaid is denied because it should not have been given in the first place due to your father not being eligible, then all the facilities have every right to hold him responsible for payment. Medicaid will CLAW BACK (take back and leave any money owed to facility your father's responsibility) any money that was paid under false pretenses. And any money you have paid for the property could be viewed as gifting to your father if the contract is not Medicaid compliant. The money father gets for selling property is not given to Medicaid during his lifetime - it makes him INELIGIBLE for medicaid until he spends it back down below limits and he pays all costs until then for medical and home care because he has assets over the limits. Please, get a lawyer involved to review what you are giving to the facilities and anyone else. Yikes. You are a good person - there may be some way to exempt part of the property if you made it possible for him to live there - but there is a 2 year requirement in most states and you have to have the paperwork ready for recovery. I am so sorry.

I told my dad three weeks ago I had his insulin refilled and he needed to pick it up at Walmart with the girl that helps him since they go there every time she comes three days a week!! Two times now he hasn't picked it up and they always send it back and I have to call to get it refilled Yesterday he shows up at my house on his four wheeler blind and can't see hardly about sideswiped my vehicle, and says "I'm out of my insulin". I asked why he didn't get it at Walmart here...said "I didn't know it was there"... I did tell him two different times and he chooses to shop for other things and totally forgets about his medicine getting picked up This afternoon to help at home girl comes and he said yes I will have her take me there to get it I called Walmart and they said it goes back today again for the third time if he doesn't show up
Yes I could've went to Walmart last night to get it or went there this morning but I'm refusing to take part in this junk anymore

I totally agree Medicaid needs paid back !!! Yes yes and a big YES!!!
We do have a lawyer and he's the one that came up with this plan and I doubted it from the very beginning !!!

Wow what you said about any money given to my father does not go to Medicaid until he dies that really scares me about this deal .
Husbandrecently had his property surveyed off into two tracks, 5 acres for him and 35 for us. From what I'm learning here today it does not sound like that was the thing to do or a very right decision at all

You said his property right now is not his to sell which means it is not ours to buy like the lawyer said we could do on contract !!!

Bella, is the lawyer a MEDICAID experienced lawyer or a general real estate and elder care planning one? Big difference. What you do to avoid probate about assets can really mess up a Medicaid application (transfer assets so they are out of a dying person's name but within 5 years of applying causes transfer penalty, not disclose property can cause penalty) etc.
Medicaid pays the medical and housing bills for your father while he is alive. Father pays a co-pay determined by "His Share of Cost or SOC" of his social security or income if he is in institution (assisted living that accepts medicaid, hospital or nursing home). If he's not in a facility or institution like assisted living, the share of cost he paid the assisted living is available for his needs - housing, utilities, etc. Sounds like Father is spending like a well, drunken sailor comes to mind. Remember, Medicaid is NOT a one time plan. You have to re-certify with the state after the initial application about every 1-3 years and prove that you (1) had assets below the limit each and every month (2) had income below the limits each and every month (3) didn't transfer assets like cash or property each and every month while you are on Medicaid. With computers, real estate and transfers, bank accounts, pension benefits paid, social security payments, all these are available to state agencies and dovetail into a database. They will find the transactions, if not now, later when you register the deed. Part of the original medicaid paperwork is notification that they have a right to file a "Lien" against your father's property-that you are buying so you think it's your-for benefits paid on your father's behalf while he is alive. When he dies, depending on your state's laws, Medicaid will recover the money paid for your father's care from his estate - either through probate claim or by having a lien on real estate that must be satisfied before legal ownership can transfer. Most states are hiring outside firms that do nothing except chase down money owed to Medicaid in that state after death and they are very experienced debt collectors that know what databases exist, how assets are hidden, and where to look. Make sure you get a lawyer that is experienced in Medicaid and Estate Recovery as well as elder issues and start making copies of all documents NOW. Sorry you face this.
Your father's property IS his to sell - but if he lied to Medicaid about owning it and got Medicaid under false pretenses, he may have somehow find other money to pay back money to the facilities that accepted Medicaid on his behalf to satisfy his debts. Money you paid him for the property may be viewed as "gifting" by Medicaid and add to the mess. If your lawyer was experienced in medicaid, none of this would be a surprise to you right now. Just saying.

Bella7, is your Attorney an "Elder Law" Attorney? If not, time to find one and make an appointment.... these attorneys know the ins and out of Medicaid for the State, where a regular non-specialized Attorney would not.

No he's not an elder care attorney.
I heard about them from this site months ago and told my husband this and he kept going to the same attorney.

What would have been the CORRECT route to take to make sure we didn't lose the land. And I'm talking the complete legit correct way??  Or would that have even been possible since my father chose to lie about his property ?

Bella, the correct route would have been to have the lawyer review your father's assets, set up a purchase contract that was Medicaid compliant to purchase the land from him and put into your names with a lien for your FATHER during term of mortgage that didn't send his assets or income above state limits. But they didn't. Now that ship has sailed. You need someone who is familiar with the Medicaid law requirements since you have chosen to be deeply involved with your father's care and finances that can help unravel the knot that this has become. Please do so before bill collectors arrive from facilities and your father needs care that he can't pay for and he is ineligible to get from Medicaid.

Ok thank you!
Well the bill collectors are probably going to come knocking so what does a person like my father do for Care when I can't get Medicaid? I am afraid you're going to say that problem will become ours!?

Bella, YOU are not the one who might lose or not be able to get Medicaid. It's your FATHER. This is why you need a lawyer - to see if the property sale to you and husband will hold up in court later. To see what the financial implications of your father's care already received might be if Medicaid is denied. To check out the paperwork received by the assisted living, the prescription providers, the doctors in order to figure out HOW MUCH money might be at risk and how best to handle it. If you have not transferred deeds or registered ownership, how to protect property that you bought in good faith from your father that might be sought after as a judgment if Medicaid claws back payments and the facilities send bill collectors after your father who lives on YOUR property. If any of Dad's money was used for cabin, what will your rights still be? If you left any property in father's name for property taxes, etc. you need legal help. If your father files federal or state income tax returns, he needed to report the profit as income, if any, from the sale of the property to you and husband if he got a profit on the sale--installment sales are not paid all at once, but the income from them is taxable as the money is received-special form on 1040 returns just for reporting that kind of income. If he doesn't file tax returns, your father might have needed to. And if he filed with the IRS and owed income tax on profit from sale without reporting the income from the property sale? PLEASE consult a lawyer. Medicaid and elder care certified with connections to certified public accountants with tax prep experience, possibly bankruptcy attorney connections. At worst? Your father will become a ward of the court as a disabled/vulnerable elder; his assets will be seized including any real property; and a guardian will be appointed to administer his care. Father will not be left to linger in filth in a cabin/trailer by a guardian with a private caregiver. Father will be institutionalized, and his money will be used for nursing home and guardian fees. If father holds property mortgage or sale is determined to be in any way abusive sale to compromised elder, the state/guardian may pursue getting the property returned to seller or the selling price adjusted if it was "under market". Maybe this is an extreme example - but it seems like things frequently go worst case with your father. If you want him to stay in cabin without being Medicaid eligible? then, yes, any money above what Father has will come out of your pocket. Brutal truth. Please talk with competent legal counsel.

Oh typo... I meant father on Medicaid not ME...got brain fog/burn out oops

I understand, Bella. But those of us from dysfunctional family situations and with narcissistic parents have trouble differentiating our situation from our parents/family members. I constantly have to remind myself that my best friend's dramas are of her own making, her own health choices, and I can't fix them or her long term even though I am like a sister to her, I cannot fix it for her.

Oh WOW...the nausea that has kicked in.

You hit the nail on the head when you said things go for the worse for my father. He did it to himself. There's no one else to blame. I'm just sorry for all the hard work my husband and I and children have put into this place for many years. Plus for all these years we have done the best that we could to try to help him. I didn't always want to but my husband encouraged me and said it was the right thing to do. I do not blame anyone in the system.
Today, I'm ready to let it all go, and let the state take guardianship over him 😔

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for taking all the time out today to answer my questions.

Your question about cleaning his house got kinda derailed, didn't it? The bigger problem is the medicaid issue.

Get a lawyer and be totally honest and see that happens.

As far as cleaning---ugh, my FIL's house was so filthy and I cleaned as best I could, but he wouldn't let me go into some of the rooms. After he passed, I did. He has serious respiratory issues and layers of dust on everything--seriously, 1/2" deep everywhere. I burned out 2 vacuums just vacuuming the dust.

If they won't let you clean, you can't. IN the same boat with mother now. She can't see the grime, so it doesn't bother her. I gave up.

Good luck with the Medicaid mess---that's worse than the physical mess.

Yea, I steered it off the track!

I could clean but I am refusing to, mainly because he had it made at the AL and he has stated too many times he wants to be independent and he can do things on his own.   I'm now realizing he probably shouldn't have even been allowed to stay at the AL  by not reporting to Medicaid in 2009 and there after that he had 40 acres.    I honestly don't know how it has lasted this long with them paying his way.
My worst fear is him getting bedbugs again and infested with mice. I could take this on and make him let me clean on top of the little bit that Help At Home girl does which is not much because he chooses to go shopping  or drive round to visit his old buddies.   It angers me that he can't seem to remember to pick up his medicine at Walmart! Im just choosing not to do anything except dispense his meds in his pillbox.  Most of the time he doesn't take them anyway so that's a waste of time.  This whole situation is poison to me.   My mom used to have me set up town in a little restaurant and wait for him to show up to give me a child support check to give back to her.   He would never have one so I had to report to mom empty-handed.   Fast forward months later, he was forced to pay or go to jail.  Yea,  I have a lot of past issues that I thought I had forgiven him for but obviously not.  When he does stupid things and basically sh*ts on my husband and I it throw 1000 ft backwards.  I tried years ago to have him change the land over into our name to protect it and him and he wouldn't do it.   Even told him it's still has it can do whatever he wants it's just for everyone's protection.  
He even had another dumpy trailer on the place and would let random people throughout the years live there for free and I mean totally free.  These people were on Medicaid too and ate better than us!  My husband worked his butt off every day, for his family I may add and he would come home and see people lounging around, fishing doing whatever the h*ll they  wanted out here.

I self doubt myself a lot but I'm smart enough to know I need to listen to what my body is telling me and my mental status. I have a granddaughter coming right before Christmas and I refuse to get in a depressed state like before because of this man I call my dad. I do question if I'm doing the right thing in hoping he ends up with a guardian and not caring about it.

Bella; the fact that he will have a guardian doesn't mean you don't care. It means that your DAD won't cooperate with you. He only wants what HE wants.

You don't have the authority, power or persuasiveness to change his circumstances. The State does.

😭

Bella, is your father sufficiently incapacitated for a guardianship application to succeed? I didn't think he was, but maybe he's deteriorated mentally?

I feel quite sorry for the caregiver, because she could end up in real trouble over her job here and it's more your father's fault than hers. She turns up and she's supposed to clean, run errands and keep him company; but he says 'oh leave that, let's hit the town' or whatever, and then what's a girl to do...?

Do you ever get a chance to talk to her face to face?

No he's not sufficiently incapacitated.

I talked to her face to face before he made the move home and since Dad requested her back again as his caregiver ( she was helper before AL) or helper at home or "chauffeur" or whatever, I asked her if she would be capable to clean up poop etc. and she said oh yes I can do that, I do that all the time. I stressed the importance of keeping his home clean and she was the one that found the first bedbug last year.    Several weeks after the move home I snooped in the cabin and it was disgusting so I text her and I asked her if Dad was letting her clean and she said no he gets mad when I suggested it so she just doesnt. I made a phone call to her boss, not trying to get her into trouble but the truth needed to be told and the boss said yes that's her the job description is to clean and she did notice that there was too much time spent on the road when she looked at her time sheet the week before. The boss said she asked for help or about cleaning and her reply was that my dad gets upset when she wants to clean, so they go hop in the car.  Boss said she would give my dad a call and tell him that she needs to clean, however I do not know if that call was made   I have no problem with people who hang out in bars but this girl was a bartender and my dad hung out there every night all week long. This was probably eight years ago or more,rumors were going around our little town that they were more than "friends". This girl is my age, 55, my dad is 82. I used to see her driving his truck around town when her car was broke down etc. etc.  Some people in this town thinks my dad has a lot of money but he does not he has zilcho!!
Geez, when I look back and re-read all this it sounds nuts.
 Why do you say that the caregiver could be in a lot of trouble ??  Because she shows up to clean and he says no ?   She knows he has no money and we have been paying his way this whole last year, I told her that before he moved home and she recently sold him her Bose radio for $100 and convinced him to go on her cell phone plan, which she just changed to, telling him it's only going to cost $30 a month where he was getting his phone and all his minutes paid for by us for the last 10 years free 

I would feel sorry for any other caregiver for sure but there's something stinky about the situation
When he had his stroke in July and went into assisted living in August, his speech was terrible until I told him goodbye one night, his phone rang and it was the caregiver calling to visit. I listened on the other side of the door and he talked fine..it sounded like nothing had ever happened to him...the next day with him the speech went bad again.
She would call him all the time at assisted-living and tell him her personal problems. I saw a red flags then but chose not to pay attention
This kind of crap I'm tired of even running through my head with him

So he's not inconpacitated... Will probably get kicked out of Medicaid completely...
What happens if he needs to go to the hospital or nursing home...what if he gets sick or needs medicine...

He has Medicare, doesn't he?

Look, Bella, you and your husband are good hearted people. But "doing" for your dad is going to end up costing you your life savings and your home if you don't step back and let things be. Legally, you are not responsible for him, are you? He's an adult who makes bad choices, yes?

Yes he has Medicare and yes many bad choices...

 How are you doing Barb ?

Bella, if he gets sick you call 911 and have him taken to hospital, and you tell them he is unsafe discharge. Has the land he sold you not been transferred??? Please check with lawyer. You deserve a good life.

The reason I feel sorry for her is that she is being paid to clean, your father is preventing her, but if, say, an APS type situation were to arise and his home were assessed and it's seriously squalid - she's going to be landed with the blame and it'll go on her record - she won't easily get another job.

So if she really isn't capable of standing firm and doing the work she's actually paid for, then I hate to say so but there's nothing for it, her boss is going to have to replace her. Not fire her, there must be other people she can work for, but replace her with a less eager-to-please type who won't take any nonsense. Perhaps what my ex-husband used to call a "sensible shoes" girl.

You could try explaining again to her first and seeing if it makes any difference, but I wouldn't be too hopeful - she'll just agree with you, and then straight away agree with your father, and nothing will change. So I'd call her boss. And your father won't have any cause for complaint: if he really wants to keep seeing this lady as a friend - and she really is a friend and not just thinking 'nice work if you can get it' - then there's nothing stopping him.