Hi all. My 87yo father, who is a narcissist and lives with his 84yo partner (who he dumped my mother for), has recently started to go downhill. He lives with her independently and since having a stroke 5 years ago, has decreased mobility which has been getting worse every year. Since working from home during the pandemic, I have been able to make frequent trips to stay with them for 2-3 week blocks but after that time, I start to go a little nuts and leave to go back to my own life. I live 4 hours away. When I stay with them, I don't have my own space, I sleep in a fold up camp bed in the living room (which also has the open plan kitchen) and have no privacy. His partner is OCD - I can't even cook a meal. Sometimes I sit in the bathroom with my phone just to get some space. My father is exceedingly lazy, has never take an interest in his physio and never tried to get back on his feet. I know it's hard when you're old. He is now in hospital due to ongoing stomach complaints and will be getting tests. I took the opportunity to come home and I'm only 2 days back and he's already pressuring me to return. He is guilting me with how horrible it is in the hospital and how mean they are being to him. I have no sibling assistance - one brother died and the other hasn't spoken to my Dad in over 20 years due to the child abuse he committed as a result of his narcissism. I am trapped in a cycle of anger and guilt and just need to know I am not a bad daughter. I can't - and won't - live with them full time. I just don't know why he thinks it is acceptable that I should just stop my life for weeks on end when I don't even have a decent place to sleep and am trying to hold down a full time job. Getting a hotel/airb is not an option. I am 52 years old. Sorry this is so long.
What does 'a bad daughter' mean? What does it mean to you? If you were not 'bad' - would that make you 'good'? Are there only these words available to describe daughters? 🤔
What about loyal, hardworking, intelligent, courgeous, resourceful.
Let's remove 'bad' & re-phrase it to... ??
Suggestions welcome!
1. NO is a complete sentence
2. Get some therapy for yourself to deal with your own anger and guilt - he will use that and anything else he can against you.
3. Get yourself a titanium spine
4. Keep your life - you will need it
5. Do not depend on sibling assistance - your sibling has already shut that door - do not harbor resentment against them - they have their reasons and you totally understand why - but don't let them not being involved ruin that relationship. They have a right to choose just like you do. (we are less involved than SIL and BIL because we do not live there, we try to be involved, but there is only so much we can do, we do our best to preserve that relationship because it is important to us)
6. IT WILL GET WORSE - I hate to tell you that - but unfortunately as his circle of influence (read his narcissistic supply) shrinks and he loses control in other areas he will become more controlling of what he has left. And as that shrinks to just his very small world around him - his partner and you, he will try to control what you say, you do, when you do it, HOW you do it, and you will have to be strong.
7. HE will likely become more combative and angry - learn to walk away - learn to not take it personally. YOU didn't do this to him. THIS ISN'T YOUR FAULT. Narcissist parents spent YEARS brainwashing their children into believing everything is their fault and as adults it only takes a word or two for that training to kick in. I've seen this in my husband and my SIL. It's actually scary to watch. And takes a lot to break the habit.
You do actually know why he thinks it is acceptable for you to stop your life if you think about it. And that's all part of it. For a narcissist, the entire WORLD was put here to see to their needs and only their needs. So yours aren't important. It hasn't even occurred to him that he is asking you to give up anything or that you need a place to sleep, you are supposed to make sure HIS needs are met, not the other way around. It never crosses his mind that he has any responsibility whatsoever to meet your needs because that's not his job. His job is entirely to ensure that his supply lines are clear to get his own needs met.
So, you are at a crossroads. You love your father. And there are ways to deal with this in a loving way, from a distance. He can hire caregivers, you don't have to be there to take care of him. But it is going to take strength and boundaries on your part to do it.
Let me say this is one of the best responses I've ever read on the forum. You are spot on about narcissist parents and their years of brainwashing their children so when we're adults all they have to do is a word and our training kicks in. Too true that it's very hard to break out of that cycle and stop it.
It's a shame about your FIL too. That's always what ends up happening when an elderly or chronically ill person is waited on hand-and-foot. They will lose all independence even independent thought, and will become like an infant again. When that happens, a care facility can be the only solution.
I've been in caregiving for a very long time and to many people who've never been in this line of work, will think that my methods are harsh and cruel. They're not though.
For example, I refuse to spoon feed a client until they are absolutely at the end. A person will see some elderly client making a mess and say how terrible it is and that I should just feed them. No. Feeding would be easier and less messy, but not better for the client. Always preserve any level of independence. Even if a person can't do anything. They can wait. They can adapt to not getting every demand and command they have fulfilled or done the second they want it. That's also a form of independence. Caregivers need to understand about knowing when not to do everything.
Because he's a selfish narcissist just as you say. He doesn't care if you don't have a decent place to sleep, or if you will be able to keep your job. All that matters to him is that his needs and wants are met on his terms and in ways that he finds acceptable.
Your father and his partner need outside hired caregivers to come in and help. Of course he doesn't want strangers. Of course he doesn't want to pay for caregivers to do what he thinks you should be doing for free. Of course you're supposed to give up your life to become an servant to him and his elderly partner. Not even a servant. Lower than a domestic servant because at least they get a wage and their own quarters. They expect you to become a slave.
You say your own brother hasn't spoken to your father in over 20 years because he was abusive due to his narcissism. There's your answer right there, my friend. The next time you're vexing yourself about being a 'bad daughter', remember why your brother doesn't speak to him.
Limit your contact and the phone calls with your father and his partner. The second the conversation starts to cross over into guilt-tripping and manipulation, end the call. You don't owe either of them anything and you are not a bad daughter.
It doesn’t matter what YOU ARE. HE has a spouse.
No you should NOT suspend your life to care for him. If you’d craved sleeping on a “camp bed”, you could have enlisted.
Limit the calls and contacts and be the “best” in limited spurts.
Basically, I could not find any way to see you as a bad daughter. You sound extraordinarily good, above and beyond any reasonable call of duty or obligation. Go home. Be free. Be confident in who you are and how you went far above and beyond to help in the face of blatant resistance. Let your help be from a distance over the phone. Let the partner have her privacy back, too, so they can both discover if they can really manage alone. You can’t fix them, but they can destroy you. As a good daughter you need to be strong in readiness for the future, happy with yourself and your life so when you do help it is with confidence and certainty, not being ground down and convinced you are somehow ‘bad’.
“You can’t fix them, but they can destroy you”.
I think as children we ultimately feel as responsible for our parents as we do our children, but even so, we cannot control every aspect of their lives. If they are of sound mind, we must respect how they live their lives, even if we don’t like it. Like my mother-in-law, who hasn’t bathed in over a year. We’re starting with a PSW who we hope will help her bathe (because whoa, the SMELL), but in the end, what choice do I have? I can’t exactly drag her to the tub and force her to shower?
Just accept that you can only do what you can do. And as much as we want to do it all, we really can’t. That’s a one-way ticket to burnout.
I hope you’re able to get some help soon. Everybody can use a little bit of help.
Have a look at this wonderful article on the subject:
https://lifelessons.co/personal-development/covertpassiveaggressivenarcissist/#3
Dad needs to HIRE the help that he requires as you have your own job, your own life and your own affairs that you must attend to. It's just that simple. It's time to stop jumping through the fiery hoops to please a man who's never going to BE pleased, no matter how many times you get burned in the process. At 52 years old, NOW is the time to hear that message before it's too late & the burns are too deep to heal. It took me a long while to hear the message myself, and I got burned way too many times before I did.
Wishing you the best of luck taking care of YOURSELF now and leaving your dad's wife to care for him. She willingly took on the burden, leave her to it now. Sending you a hug & a prayer for clarity & peace.
My father turned 86 last week and has sent me into an incredible guilt spiral because I had other plans and frankly, he never remembers my birthday and had a hand in ruining a lot of mine as a child. Birthdays are for children in my opinion. My brother moved out of state right when my father (and MIL) started to decline physically and I deal with that anger as well.
I no longer answer his phone calls, I let them go to voice mail and call back the next day (I would call sooner if emergency but so far it hasn't been). I have to have boundaries and prep time for his calls. He called me distressed this past fall in a fight with his wife demanding I find placement for him. I took off work, had interviews at places and he called next day changed his mind.
He is one hour from me, but it might as well be 4 since I can't drive the semi laden route to his house (moved to be with wife after my mother's death) due to my glaucoma damaged eyes. My husband has to drive me and he has his own 91 year old MIL to care for, so admittedly the visits are rare and short. He is a nasty, selfish, mean man and he is growing more so with his decline. I find it very difficult to find compassion.
Please let me know if you ever need to vent.
Just want to add that I took my dad to the VA to try to get them some in home health care, I arranged it and when the caregiver arrived (late, due to misunderstanding), he sent her away - my stepmother explaining that she was a large, black woman and my dad doesn't want that. What an incredibly racist and privileged act! I do not know how to love this man, and never have. So at this point, if what I can do to help is not accepted, then I am of no use to him. And we all know what happens to useless narcissist supply.
Do nothing for your father and his wife then. This is the way of so many of our elderly "loved ones". They need a lot of help and often can't do anything for themselves, yet they won't accept help unless it's completely on their terms, and exactly the person they want.
My mother is the same as your father. So some time ago I gave her two choices.
Accept the help I offer on the terms I offer it. Or the choices are do without or go into a nursing home.
She doesn't want to go into an AL or a care facility so she knows I will not tolerate any complaining, fight-picking, orneriness, guilt-tripping, or instigating.
She knows to keep these things in check with me now and this is recent because I was always the lightening rod for her abuse. Not so much these days because she knows I'm serious. Sometimes she gets on the pity pot about how I don't really care about her and so on. I tell her the truth, that she gets more from me than she deserves.
You're doing the right thing. Either your narcissistic father can accept your help on your terms, or he can do without it,
Good for you!
Your dad gets to now live with the choices he has made in his life, and let his partner care for him. And if she is not able to care for him, then he(not you)needs to make arrangements for his own care, whether that means hiring some outside help to come in, or finding the appropriate facility for him to move to.
You have your own life and don't need to give up any more of your precious time and money to look after a dad, who honestly doesn't appreciate it or you anyway. So stop letting him use you, and start saying no to him when he wants your help of any kind. And get on with enjoying your life, as life is short. We only get one go round here, so it's up to us to make the most and best of it. That's what I'm hoping you will do. God bless you.
If it helps you to back out you can research resources for them (contact social services to get them an in-home assessment or services), show them how to look up their local area's Agency on Aging, download a Medicaid application form or each of them but do not continue to be their indentured servant. It is immoral and unethical and dysfunctional for them to assume you into this responsibility. You will burn out and they won't care. Your father is a full-grown adult who had the entirety of his life to plan for his decline and exit and chose NOT to do so. Instead he selfishly thought he'd summon his slave to do his bidding. Sound harsh? He's harsh. So, run away and save yourself.
Many on this forum have gone to or are currently in therapy for being in the exact situation as you. A good therapist will help you see the healthy boundaries and give you objective wisdom about how to manage through this time in your life. It would be worth every penny. Wishing you much clarity and wisdom and peace in your heart that making yourself a priority is right and good.
I share this quote by Oscar Wilde, I think most of us - especially me - should keep repeat it as a mantra
Selfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live
You sound like you feel a bit trapped...if you find that you need some extra backup, see if talking to a counselor or therapist can help. They will confirm that you are spot on with your decision to distance yourself. Treat yourself this week and have a lovely nap stretched out all diagonal on your own bed :)
He doesn't CARE about how you feel.
Please take care of you. Let him and his partner take care of HIM.
When he complains, say "I'm so sorry to hear that".
"No, I can't possibly do that" is my standard reply to impossible requests that are impositions.