Any tips on discussing bill paying with father who has dementia?

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Any tips on discussing bill paying with father who has dementia?

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My father has always been very stubborn and never wants to ask for help. Unfortunately now he has dementia but still feels very capable. We are signing power of attorney papers this week. I believe he is paying his bills. Whether they are on time I’m not sure. He won’t let me look at them. I’ve noticed when we go out to eat he’s no longer able to calculate tip. So I’m worried he may not know how much to pay on credit cards before interest kicks in. He’s just had some dental work on care credit and I’m worried he won’t be able to calculate payments without my help. Any suggestions?

Activities of Daily Living Alzheimer's & Dementia Financial Planning

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We struggled with this for a long time. My POA was only honored by one of dad's 3 banks. He would not give up control. We finally set the rule that myself or one of his caregivers would write the checks but he could continue to sign them. Now he is in AL and the mail comes to me (I am his guardian). He still owns his house so I take all of the household bills to him every week and I write the checks from his personal checking account and then he signs them. I keep a separate account for the conservatorship for the AL bills, taxes, etc. I would suggest sneaking the account numbers from his house and setting up online logins for what you can. (I have done this before to monitor).

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Really, selling his house while he is still alive will save you a ton of grief down the road. Once my dad's bank got the shot of money from the sale of his house, the return of his investments did much better (his "money making machine" worked better with a higher balance.

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When you get POA can you sign him up for automatic bill pay? Just about everyone offers it now. Tell him “who wants to spend time paying bills, Dad?” He can always keep track of his accounts on his bank’s website.

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Well I'd get the papers signed first! You wouldn't want to rock the boat by raising this discussion right now.

So: when he struggles with working out the tip, what happens? Does he just go for it, throw in some change, and let it pass? Do you intervene, or does he ask the waiter to see to it?

This is a very delicate situation for you and it does want careful handling. First of all, pick the right battles - just suppose your father does incur one or a few months' interest on his credit card, how much will that cost him in total? Is it enough to be a real worry for him, or just an annoying waste?

Once the papers are in hand, then you can start agreeing with him which tasks he can first of all "explain" to you so that you will know how he likes things done, and then once that goes smoothly - fingers crossed - you can begin to take over certain routines and then eventually all of it.

Work out with him how you will keep him informed, too. This aspect is likely to get seriously repetitive and boring, but you'll want a simplified summary that you can show to him for reassurance.

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It’s pretty much a given if he has dementia he can’t keep track of his bills. That’s one of the first to go along with medication dispensing. My mother had thousands of dollars in credit on department store charge cards because every time they sent a statement with the credit, she’d send them a payment to “ cover” it 🙄. Monitor his bank account and bills online if you can . A financial POA will help IF it’s set up to start immediately.

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OMG 😱 I just love this.... every month she builds up her credit balance, even tho statements probably read Credit Balance No Payment Necessary. Lol. I bet your mom has always been quite the precise person for “bookkeeping” and ran a wellordered household. It’s so especially sad for those that are like this (my late mom was but on the flip side my DMIL was beyond a financial terrorist) when dementia sets in as they seem to intuitively know they things are going amiss and it scares the crap out of them & they become way way fearful atop the usual dementia paranoia.

on the plus side, usually once the $ hits a certain tipping point, the creditor should send her a check to zero out the account.

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I have not yet read through the other replies but here is my take. Not calculating a tip is the least of your worries. Dementia does not get better. His memory and ability will diminish. I was in the same situation several years ago. I did not want to take this element of independence from my mother. However, the actual realization hit me in the face when I reviewed her checkbook. She was giving money to whomever would ask for it. $25 here and $50 there. Long story but ultimately thousands of dollars. Expedite getting the POA done as soon as possible. Arrange to be added to his bank accounts. Take over bill pay. Have bills sent to your attention. Take away his credit cards. This may seem like a hassle but ultimately he will not be able to distinguish between a real bill and a request for a handout. Once the checkbook is gone he will be asked for his credit card numbers by unscrupulous solicitors. I recommend a cash allowance for him until he no longer needs it. I do not know your exact circumstances but I want you to be aware what is in your future.

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For us - we found that trying to help with her pills or her bills is a minefield and can cause explosive blowups by MIL. Certainly it relates to losing control -- but boy! It can get ugly. So, tread softly and try to get his cooperation. But my advice is, if there are sneaky things you can pull behind the scenes, do that too. Bottom line is, you want the bills paid - and his stubbornness (much like my MIL) is going to have to be managed in some way, to get this accomplished. You can try to include him, but if it doesn't work, trickery on some level may need to come to play.

We have changed many of MIL's bills to auto pay as suggested by others. She was still "with it" enough to understand and approve that move -- although sometimes she grouses about it these days. She can see them on the bank statement (on the rare occasion she looks at those).

All medical bills go to SIL's home address -- she has POA. SIL will bring those over and show MIL, and give her the opportunity to pay them by check. If MIL balks or doesn't believe she owes it -- SIL goes home and writes a check from MIL's account and pops it in the mail. MIL gets cranky about her daughter "Taking over" -- but it had to be done, MIL had let a $12 bill go to collections, and taken over 7 months to pay the $400 she owed to the nursing home for her rehab stint (She had the money, just didn't think she needed to pay it).

The tricky part for us, is the odd bills that still come to the house - property taxes, a plumbing repair, etc. I try to monitor the mail piling up on her coffee table and dig through it for bills. If I can get her to pay it, I will. If she refuses, I'll sneak off with the bill and get it to SIL - let her know that her mom doesn't believe she owes it and won't pay it. Then SIL can try again, and if it fails she just writes the check and mails it.

So I guess, we try to let MIL handle some of it, when she is willing, but we have a big safety net in place to catch things before they go to collection agencies (it's happened!) or she loses her house over not paying a $5 property tax bill!

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Good idea of having durable poa. That is what my brothers have. I am now her medical representative.

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I suggest that Dad contact all the creditors he pays each month and ask that ur name be put on the acct as a person to contact if payment is not made or not made in the full amt. Should also allow you to talk to them.

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You pretty much say to him what you have stated here. You remind him that you are available to assist him whenever and however he needs it.

When my mother passed, my father asked me to help him with the bills. I told him it would take me 3 months to get everything balanced (no, I have no idea why I said 3 months - I later learned that it really does take 3 months when you go in blind). When he said that I wasn't doing it the way my mother did, I told him nicely that I could only do it the way I knew how. I got his funds balanced and paid his bills for him. I took him shopping and showed him how to put out his pills on a weekly basis. He was on so many medications that the pills were split to morning, noon and night. I got out a pad and his medications and made a chart he could follow for which pills to take at what time of the day. Really it was a list and the pills separated by Morning, Noon and Night.

Just keep offering. Not demanding. Offering to assist. Never strip your father of his independence. Put yourself in his place - we were all children being told what to do when growing up - none of us liked it. So try to be patient and offer to help instead of telling him what to do.

I prayed for patience and guidance every single night and it helped me.
Good Luck and Bless You.

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Once the POA has been initiated - someone will get first hand on-the-job training of tough love. That person will need copies of the documentation to share with every entity your Dad has/is doing business with. Have no doubts - it is a job, it will suddenly evaporate 4 - 5 hours of your time. It is the last gift you can give to him. The companies (or entities) do have these conversations every day with POA's. Never hesitate to contact a president of a company to get them to do the right thing. Dad's opinions are not likely to change but he is no longer totally in the "real world". POA stops the moment he passes so, get all the ducks in a row while you have the power to do so. It might feel like you are being mean. You are not.

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"That person will need copies of the documentation to share with every entity your Dad has/is doing business with."
Not necessarily - while I did need the POA for some, most "billers", such as utilities, newspaper, phone, etc, didn't care. Most of them I called and provided the account name/number and requested a billing address change. They don't care where the bill goes, they only care about getting paid. I did NOT add my name to any accounts (two of us were already on mom's credit union account.) The town water dept even ASKED me if I wanted the bill mailed to me without me asking first (called to check on the balance due, as the bill was MIA.)

If OP can snag the bills, even older ones, just to have the contact information, then a simple call to most with a request to change the billing address should work. As with others who have dementia, if it doesn't show up in the mail, they will likely not remember that they should be getting it! Best first step is the POA paperwork. Second step should be the bank(s) he uses. From there it would be billers and CC. With CC, if you choose to let him keep it for now, check the available limit and have them reduce it considerably! Mom's was good credit, good payments, so her limit was some ridiculous double digit amount - ripe for abuse if card is lost, stolen or he gets talked into giving the number/date/CCV out! Next would be to consider taking over SS as rep payee and same for any other income he has (this was the only way I could get access/have documents sent to me.)

The only entities who required the POA were the credit union, the bank, and mom's credit card. That last one was the biggest PITA! They gave limited access and denied any online access. At some point I froze the account and then closed it.

It might not be the same everywhere, but not one biller (other than CU, bank and CC) ever asked me who what when where or why. I also avoid autopay - there are too many of my own accounts and mom's to juggle all that - I find have paper statements easier. Then there's always a chance of an oops on their side, resulting in taking too much! It is easier for me to have the paper trail handy if I ever need it! I DO use the billpay system, but it only requires set up once and then just schedule date and amount of payments. Push rather than allowing them to pull.

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No if's, and's or but's - get a POA at once even if he objects. Remove the source of his credit cards by closing them or having his name taken off. You will need an attorney. As to your father, you must get very tough, preferably in private vs. in a restaurant. Tell him in no uncertain terms YOU are going to handle the bills and you will keep him fully informed but YOU are now in charge. And do it. If he refuses, scare him that he will be placed and he will have NO control at all. So he either listens to you or he has to leave. Be prepared to do what you have to do. You cannot allow people with dementia to control you or harm you. You do not deserve it.

Any tips on discussing bill paying with father who has dementia?

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