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Mother-in-law is 89 with dementia. She has a DNR in order. My husband (this is his mom, too) has not been able to give any suggestion on her care. Now all of a sudden, due to a vacation, he is now capable.
I don’t quite get all the complexities, but: in the United States, POA can’t be changed except by the principal (your mother-in-law), and that could only be done when the principal has capacity to make decisions.
So no, the brother-in-law can’t assign your husband the POA (verbally or otherwise) just because he is out of contact.
Ideally, your mother-in-law would’ve listed your husband as alternate (backup) POA when she set it up originally. Doesn’t sound like that happened. And I assume your mother-in-law has dementia now to the point where she can’t redo the POA entirely.
So, if something happens when your brother-in-law can’t be reached, healthcare providers will just have to deal without a formal POA. This happens not uncommonly.
I'm in a similar situation: will be sailing in the Med (not a cruise ship but on a private small sailboat) with family for 2 weeks. Not sure about cell service out there. My hubs has his Mom (89) in LTC and I have 2 elders (95 and 105) who are no longer capable of reassigning their PoA from me to another.
We have a really good relationship with the LTC facility so my hubs will go talk to the admins to see what they advise. I'm sure he's not the first PoA who may not be reachable in an emergency.
As for my elders, I will give a "decision tree" sheet of instructions to their family caregiver so that she doesn't have to second-guess anything. Both elders have DNRs. They both have Advance Healthcare Directives (fortunately!). That's as much as I think I can do.
So how long will he be out of the country and will be he be completely unreachable where he is (Australian walkabout in the outback with no cell phone connection for 6 months? Or visiting Paris for a week?)
I am assuming when you say that BIL is POA - that you mean it is invoked and MIL is no longer capable of making decisions for herself - rather than just the named POA in the eventuality that this happens.
If BIL will be reachable - there should be zero need to even consider naming someone in lieu. Legal transfer of POA is not something that can happen if MIL is already non-competent and POA is already invoked. If there is an "alternate" POA - and BIL wants to revoke his assignment - that would be the only legal way to change the POA if that is the case.
I don't know if there is a way to do what we did as kids for a short term time frame if BIL will be unreachable - when my parents would go out of town and we were still minors - they would leave a written note assigning the adults in charge the ability to agree to medical care on our behalf - and make some level of medical decisions - in the event that they were unreachable. But we were their children and it wasn't a POA designation - so I don't even know if that is something that is legally possible.
If BIL will be unreachable - literally - something SHOULD be done to cover the gap - but that would be a legal question.
I am dealing with this situation too. I have primary medical and financial POA and brother who lives in the same state of momma is secondary. My husband and I are going to be in Europe for 11 days and if anything happens to momma - brother is suppose to handle it. Momma is 90 and for the last couple of months she has had alot of medical issues. If something major major happens to momma - like she passes away - it has to wait until I get back. I cannot do anything when I am out of the country. I mean we cannot have the funeral until I get back! I have already talked to the head nurse at mommas assisted living to let her know that we are going to be away and also one of our family friends that helps me out alot. I have already had this discussion with sister and brother and they are just concerned about the fact if we lose momma when I am gone who is going to give out their inhertance! That is what they are all thinking about!
I honestly think in this day and age, and given the unlikelihood that there will be any necessity of decisions, that this is really not a priority. The POA usually cannot, as a matter of fact, pass on his ability to make decisions. HOWEVER, in the case of someone elderly, WITH a DNR, whose POA cannot be reached, it's VERY UNLIKELY that heroic measures will be taken.
Leave this to the POA. Phones are reachable now. If there is some very unusual circumstance where this person will be on Mt. Everest and not reachable for periods of time, then a letter written before this vacation will suffice. The letter will read something to the effect of:
I will be out of the country in off grid for the dates ______through__________. I am POA for Ms. _________. Her DNR is registered in her medical records and she is adamant that she has lived a good quality of life and doesn't wish to be treated with dialysis, ventilators, and other heroic measures. Should she require simple administration of medications or hospitalization or rehab and cannot make these decisions then in my absence her son __________should be consulted.
That's about as far as I personally would go. This isn't worth a trip to an attorney for 700.00. I would leave anything other in the hands of the fates which are sometimes more wise than we ourselves.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
So no, the brother-in-law can’t assign your husband the POA (verbally or otherwise) just because he is out of contact.
Ideally, your mother-in-law would’ve listed your husband as alternate (backup) POA when she set it up originally. Doesn’t sound like that happened. And I assume your mother-in-law has dementia now to the point where she can’t redo the POA entirely.
So, if something happens when your brother-in-law can’t be reached, healthcare providers will just have to deal without a formal POA. This happens not uncommonly.
We have a really good relationship with the LTC facility so my hubs will go talk to the admins to see what they advise. I'm sure he's not the first PoA who may not be reachable in an emergency.
As for my elders, I will give a "decision tree" sheet of instructions to their family caregiver so that she doesn't have to second-guess anything. Both elders have DNRs. They both have Advance Healthcare Directives (fortunately!). That's as much as I think I can do.
I am assuming when you say that BIL is POA - that you mean it is invoked and MIL is no longer capable of making decisions for herself - rather than just the named POA in the eventuality that this happens.
If BIL will be reachable - there should be zero need to even consider naming someone in lieu. Legal transfer of POA is not something that can happen if MIL is already non-competent and POA is already invoked. If there is an "alternate" POA - and BIL wants to revoke his assignment - that would be the only legal way to change the POA if that is the case.
I don't know if there is a way to do what we did as kids for a short term time frame if BIL will be unreachable - when my parents would go out of town and we were still minors - they would leave a written note assigning the adults in charge the ability to agree to medical care on our behalf - and make some level of medical decisions - in the event that they were unreachable. But we were their children and it wasn't a POA designation - so I don't even know if that is something that is legally possible.
If BIL will be unreachable - literally - something SHOULD be done to cover the gap - but that would be a legal question.
HOWEVER, in the case of someone elderly, WITH a DNR, whose POA cannot be reached, it's VERY UNLIKELY that heroic measures will be taken.
Leave this to the POA. Phones are reachable now.
If there is some very unusual circumstance where this person will be on Mt. Everest and not reachable for periods of time, then a letter written before this vacation will suffice. The letter will read something to the effect of:
I will be out of the country in off grid for the dates ______through__________. I am POA for Ms. _________. Her DNR is registered in her medical records and she is adamant that she has lived a good quality of life and doesn't wish to be treated with dialysis, ventilators, and other heroic measures. Should she require simple administration of medications or hospitalization or rehab and cannot make these decisions then in my absence her son __________should be consulted.
That's about as far as I personally would go. This isn't worth a trip to an attorney for 700.00. I would leave anything other in the hands of the fates which are sometimes more wise than we ourselves.