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3 of us siblings have poa for mom. My brother signed his power of attorney to his daughter and now she is making all moms desicions. I am the 24/7 care giver and daughter also with poa.
Pam is right. Only your mother can assign a POA for herself. Your brother cannot transfer his POA to his daughter, though he might transfer his duties to her if no one objects. Your brother could have named his daughter his own POA, but that does not include responsibilities that he has to your mother.
No. Your niece has no legal standing in this matter.
Power of Attorney is given by one person to another person. It does not give the 'nother person the right to transfer his responsibilities to someone else. Only the person giving the POA originally can do that, and only while he or she has mental capacity.
I cannot imagine what the notary thought he was doing participating in this obviously nonsensical exercise.
Having said that, you don't need legal permission to discuss things within a family. Even though your niece has no legal POA status, if you know she represents your brother's views you can still take what she says into account. But she cannot make decisions on your mother's behalf: that is for you, your other sibling and your brother to do together. If your brother is too ill to participate, work with the other sibling.
What is the back story, please? If you have joint POA and you are your mother's primary caregiver, why are you being so deferential to your brother in any case?
Bkgirl, what sorts of "decisions" is your Niece making on behalf of your brother? Do you two see eye to eye on these decisions? It seems like it's time to have a conversation with your brother about exactly what his Daughter's involvement in your mutual Mother's care should be, as it certainly isnt Legal, as others have said. Is your Niece an RN with insight into your Mother's care? So many questions, but not enough info to help you figure this out, unless thats all you needed to know? But FYI, you are now umongst some of the most knowledgeable and helpful people here on the AC Forum, and I hope you come back to share, teach and learn! We are all here to Support one another! Take care!
My mom gave all 3 children poa. I live with mom for 20 years. Since Alzheimer diagnose I have been her care giver we all got along just fine. Mom went to hospital in May and my brother was ill so signed his poa to his daughter to help get mom on Medicaid. I have no objections to her help but she got totally out of hand and starting telling me what to do with no what time nurses should come to help etc. she totally took charge not even respecting my being the total care giver. I only asked she ask me fist but she got insulted and started telling my brother I'm ruining moms chances for Medicaid which was and is not true. My brother being very close to his daughter listen to her. Mind you mom and I live in Florida and him in nj. Mom and all her nurses say I take such good care of her no one else has come to help at all. My sister lives 10 minutes from here and never ever helped but they all want to be the boss.
My niece is not a nurse but has knowledge in Medicaid being she's on it. I'm 64 years old mom is 91 soon and has always loved living with me. I don't understand why all of a sudden they all know best when for years I have been asking for help and no one came to my rescue
BKG I hope it is clear now: your niece does not have Power of Attorney.
She can still help with the Medicaid process, if she's a mind to. But she must not sign anything on behalf of your mother. If she won't co-operate or you'd be more comfortable dealing with it yourself, call the Medicaid people and ask for their help.
When she told your brother that you are 'ruining your mother's chances for Medicaid' what did she mean? This kind of comment often comes from a person who wants another person (you) not to be entirely truthful about things. I hope your niece hasn't been trying to be clever.
Do you have the document giving the details of your POA? You need to check it to see whether you, your sister and your brother all have to act together, or you can each act individually on your mother's behalf.
The only other thing I can suggest, if your niece insists on being the big I Am, is writing to your brother and explaining to him that it has been made clear that his supposed transfer of his POA to his daughter has no standing in law. Would he therefore please speak to his daughter and, while appreciating her help, ensure that she understands that she has NO authority to make decisions for your mother.
Have you read the POA document all the way through? I was wondering if perhaps there is some type of clause that allows for a child of one of the originally named three to step up if their parent can't/ won't preform their duties. It is common for a second to be named in a POA - of course it wouldn't be needed in this specific case with one or two originals left if one drops out. But still... Can't help but wonder since you say an actual notary was involved in this transfer of duties.
That is a good point, Rainmom; and yes it is possible that deputies were nominated for any or all of the original joint POAs. Do you have the document available, Bkgirl?
Even so, though. Even if that is the case, this is still a co-operative venture and it would still be appropriate and reasonable to expect your niece to get back in her box a bit.
I agree Churchmouse, but having joint POAs is just asking for difficulties - imo. I always try to get my brother opinion but if we had to agree on everything, nothing would ever get done, lol! I also can't help but think back to when I was in my 20's - before life had kicked my butt around the block a few times. Remeber the days when we were bulletproof and knew it all?!! Just makes me chuckle now.
From my understanding, the Only person who can expand the POA is the Principal themselves, and in this case, your Mother.
Your neice may have some understanding of Medicaid determinations, and how it pertained to her own qualifications, but probably not a lot when it comes to qualifying an elderly dementia patient with (perhaps) little means, and getting them approved for home services or Memory Care housing, should it come to that. It does sound like you need to have a good chat with her and how you have managed very well caring for your Mom on your own, and in your home for so long now, and with little help from the rest of the family, and that she needs to respect you and your home with regards to managing the schedule for home health care. I quite frankly, would tell her that she is over stepping her bounds!
Stacey that is certainly true, but it is equally true that the original POA document might have nominated deputies for one or more of the siblings should they become unable to act for their mother, and I am sorry I didn't think of that possibility until Rainmom mentioned it.
I agree with you that the niece needs to be spoken to frankly, I just wonder if she's the listening kind?!
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
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I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
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APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
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If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
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This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
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You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Power of Attorney is given by one person to another person. It does not give the 'nother person the right to transfer his responsibilities to someone else. Only the person giving the POA originally can do that, and only while he or she has mental capacity.
I cannot imagine what the notary thought he was doing participating in this obviously nonsensical exercise.
Having said that, you don't need legal permission to discuss things within a family. Even though your niece has no legal POA status, if you know she represents your brother's views you can still take what she says into account. But she cannot make decisions on your mother's behalf: that is for you, your other sibling and your brother to do together. If your brother is too ill to participate, work with the other sibling.
What is the back story, please? If you have joint POA and you are your mother's primary caregiver, why are you being so deferential to your brother in any case?
She can still help with the Medicaid process, if she's a mind to. But she must not sign anything on behalf of your mother. If she won't co-operate or you'd be more comfortable dealing with it yourself, call the Medicaid people and ask for their help.
When she told your brother that you are 'ruining your mother's chances for Medicaid' what did she mean? This kind of comment often comes from a person who wants another person (you) not to be entirely truthful about things. I hope your niece hasn't been trying to be clever.
Do you have the document giving the details of your POA? You need to check it to see whether you, your sister and your brother all have to act together, or you can each act individually on your mother's behalf.
Can't help but wonder since you say an actual notary was involved in this transfer of duties.
Even so, though. Even if that is the case, this is still a co-operative venture and it would still be appropriate and reasonable to expect your niece to get back in her box a bit.
Your neice may have some understanding of Medicaid determinations, and how it pertained to her own qualifications, but probably not a lot when it comes to qualifying an elderly dementia patient with (perhaps) little means, and getting them approved for home services or Memory Care housing, should it come to that. It does sound like you need to have a good chat with her and how you have managed very well caring for your Mom on your own, and in your home for so long now, and with little help from the rest of the family, and that she needs to respect you and your home with regards to managing the schedule for home health care. I quite frankly, would tell her that she is over stepping her bounds!
I agree with you that the niece needs to be spoken to frankly, I just wonder if she's the listening kind?!