Compensation from wife's assets for her care. Is it right to do?

It is a very good thing that you are all four of you starting out on good terms. It's a positive atmosphere, and should help discussions.

Now then. Discussing your wife's assets is one half of her financial affairs, and it has already been agreed that control is best placed in her daughter's hands. That her daughter pays her mother rent for use of her mother's property is also a good start: it shows a proper understanding of the principle that her mother's assets remain her mother's assets.

So the assets are one side of the coin. The other side of the same coin is her outgoings - her living costs.

As time goes on, the cost of personal care and related services will increase. You are currently providing all of those free of charge. But not only does this lead to the unpaid maid/housekeeper/caregiver feeling, which you are already finding a bit much, in time it will also be beyond the scope of even the most self-sacrificing and devoted husband. You just won't be able to do it all, and your wife will need *and will have to pay for* additional services.

So the topic heading is: "caregiving support costs now and looking ahead." As the person in control of her mother's finances, your stepdaughter will need to consider this subject in any case; only at the moment, as it just so happens, it hasn't come up because you've been handling it. Does that feel like a more comfortable conversation to have with her?

You might like to jot down a list of subheadings, too, and perhaps to gather some information. Personal care and housekeeping services, what do they cost and who might be acceptable providers? Respite care. Equipment and supplies. Thinking about a couple in your situation - I'll be visiting them in just over two hours - they currently have:

a profiling hospital bed
a wheeled commode
a walking frame
a portable wheelchair for car journeys
a reliable supplier of continence care products, currently pads with mesh underwear, approx five per day.
1 x 45 minute a.m. call daily to support with personal care, pressure area checks, cream application, dressing, and transfers from bed to living room. We also monitor and document her function on that given day - can she converse, do up her buttons, step round to transfer from bed to wheeled commode, clean her teeth, wash herself? - this provides a record of her fluctuating abilities which helps keep track of where she is mentally.

In normal circumstances they go together to a local community group, to the supermarket, and to other suitable venues - at the moment these are off limits, of course, but they have their own modest costs, too.

In my view they could do with adding:
a riser recliner armchair
a downstairs shower/wet room
an additional bed time call daily (especially as her husband has told us that her abilities decline towards the end of each day)
two or more calls per week for haircare, chiropody etc.

In due course they will need:
a Hoyer lift and slings
a variable pressure air bed
a slide sheet

The husband has been the primary caregiver for seven years, and is nowadays realistic about what he can cope with. He has had very occasional respite breaks, when his wife stays in a facility, and he's considering how to introduce regular respite hours into the weekly schedule. He had to get over the guilt, but for Heaven's sake! He is on duty, taking responsibility, 24/7 and he does everything, he never leaves. EVERYBODY needs down time - or they break.

Not only that. You say your wife is approaching being bedridden. That can be delayed, and her quality of life maintained, for a good deal longer with the right support. It is in her interests especially to start the conversation - and I'd expect it to go well :) Good luck, let us know how you get on.

PS Don't forget additional laundry bills!

I feel the same as you. Everything we have will go to our respective offspring. We get nothing from each other, but we have given up the life we used to have and the only one I have now is caring for him. It feels selfish, but one also feels as though he (SHE) is being abused when you get no help from the families who are, after all, going to be the benefactors when it is all over. I won't even have my home as it will go to the kids. My husband's family accused me of attacking them when I said I needed help!
As a side comment....we live alone...just the two of us and I have no one to talk with, I can't go anywhere or do anything except care for him 24/7. Some people here do not understand how hard 24/7 is!

Uhmmmm....
Hold on a minute.
You gave control of your wife's assets AND income/banking to her adult daughter?

You said: " I have agreed to give her daughter control of her mother's assets including banking." Agreed under duress?

Why would you do that (if you did), when you know that your wife's income should be used for her care? For her needs, for caregivers, and now you must go begging for your own wife's income and explain what you want to use it for?

It does not matter that you both were married before. You have been married long enough to have an interest in community property and income. Do you have a pre-nuptial agreement?

Are you independently wealthy? Because if you have a ton of money, you can run through that in no time caring for your wife.

Your wife's daughter suggested this? Does she have plans to move her Mom into her home to care for her? That will in reality be a divorce, imo. Giving one person that much control, housing, and money leaves you the only one willing to give away money to keep peace and harmony 'in the family'. Does your own daughter know about this? I have concerns that you are being exploited by the daughter who is already living in your wife's home, paying minimal rent....for how long, I wonder, and is she now paying that rent to herself?

See an elder care attorney about this.

Red flags, I am seeing red flags.

A sensitive subject for me, after seeing a similar scenario ending in divorce after all the siblings drained the couple's assets. Your situation could be different. BTW, the wife was awarded support.

Sorry if I am over-reacting.

I don’t think the daughter is obligated to pay for being a spouse. I may be in the minority here but....that’s what you appear to be asking for. It would be reasonable for your wife’s assets to be used to pay for her care, but not to pay her spouse for being a spouse. It would be reasonable to ask her daughter to use the money to hire caregivers so you don’t burn yourself and die before your wife does. I believe something like 30% of caregivers die before the person they are taking care of. I hate to say it but the time to think about compensation was when the wills were written & when decided to cut each other out, it shouldn’t have been decided on without giving it a long hard thought. Too late but you both should have thought about leaving something to each other....

You can certainly ask her daughter about being given some of your wife’s assets and I think you should. But I think you really need to think through how to say it. Don’t make it sound like you want compensation for being a spouse because she may not take too kindly to that.

I don't think that you should ask for payment for caregiving. However, I do think that it is ok to ask for a contribution for outside caregivers or if your wife was contributing to the household prior to having alzheimers and her daughter is no longer providing funds and you now have to pay all of the bills. If this is the case it is not ok for her daughter to squirrel away all of her mother's money that will become the daughter's money upon her mother's death. It is also ok for her daughter to contribute her mother's assets even if she was not contributing to the household pre alzheimers, because her mother's needs have changed. If you decide to ask her daughter to contribute I don't think it is a good idea to pose it as payment for you to care for your wife. I hope that everything works out for all of you.

Your wife's money should really be contributing toward the upkeep of your home, where you live together. She used to be able to help keep up the house. She used to be able to help buy groceries and cook. She used to be able to help do laundry. She used to be able to do whatever division of labor the both of you agreed upon when you got married and she moved into your house. Now, she can't do those things anymore. It seems only fair to me that 50% of the cost of hiring help should be borne by your wife.

You have your own health issues, which will only get worse if you continue to try to be everything for your wife.

I do not believe that you need to ask your wife's daughter for permission to hire help. I would inform her that you've decided to hire help, the weekly cost of that help is $X and your wife's 50% of $X totals $Y. Your wife's money belongs to your wife, not to her daughter.

Dear unpaid maid/housekeeper/caregiver. I want you to know that I and many others admire you for wanting to keep your wife at home as long as you are able to take care of her.

First, fairness has nothing to do with you wanting to take care of your wife. And in life, we all know, very few things are "fair." In marriage one or the other gives more to the relationship than the other at any given time. One time, one spouse gives more; the next time, the other spouse may give more; marriage is a give and take, you know that already. So, let's take "fair" out of the equation.

Second, the issue here then becomes your feelings of being an unpaid provider. It is your choice to feel like an unpaid provider. Thousands upon thousands of spouses are caring for their beloved alzheimers/dementia/end-of-life patients, and rarely do they have the opportunity, wherewithal, financial resources, or even time to seek payment for the care they give. Everyone I know who takes on the responsibility for an ailing spouse does so because of love, finances, or obligation.

If you love your wife, do it for the love you had with her and for her. If you want to be paid then ask your step-daughter for money in a positive way because you need the money.

If you do not need the money, and are unwilling to take care of your wife because of the love you shared for 16 years, then put her in a care facility and visit her as often as you need to or would like to.

May you find some peace in this relationship with your wife and step-daughter.

Maybe you could arrange for some of your wife's money to go toward household expenses that would be useful to both you and your wife. That would not be paying you directly for your caretaking, but it would offset some of the expenses that you would otherwise be paying for by yourself..

Ask yourself how you would feel if the situation were reversed. What if YOU were the one with advanced Alzheimer's and your wife asked your daughter to pay her for your care?

That said, I understand your frustrations - I've been caring for my Mother for over 6 years. I admire you for seeking others advice/opinions before making a decision. Bless you.

JFaison, I think what is needed here (in addition to CountryMouse's amazingly complete list) is regular time off for you. Regular caregiver hours need to be scheduled and paid for out of your wife's income.

If you are going to be the main caregiver to your wife, also schedule a cleaning person and perhaps laundry help.

Contact a reputable agency and find out about minimums and rates.

You will feel like less of a drudge if you can get out for lunch with friends, some regular exercise and time to read. And if you don't have to constantly think about piles of laundry and vacuuming.