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He said he was going to drive anyway...even thou he was told he would have no insurance if he got into an accident. I live in Canada and Im lost...he wont listen to me thinks im stupid and i dont know what im talking about.
doc ' quack ' has more power than a judge but in the end it might be a judge who convinces your dad .. i would narc him out if he drives. to not do so would be criminally negligent .
Dar, if your dad has dementia in addition to his poor vision (as your profile states) then of course you're stupid, because at least in his eyes, you're still a child! Talk to his doc about how to report him to dmv to get his license revoked. "Lose" the car keys.
Have the MD put that in writing and present the letter to the nearest Provincial Police station or Ministry of Transportation office. Ontario will require a road test at 80. Not sure where you are.
We've also had comments in the past about disabling his car - removing the starter or whatever it takes. It's one thing if your dad kills himself, but it's another thing if he kills other people with his insistence on driving. So stop him anyway you can.
Just for fun, I'd get him to choose another doctor and get a second opinion. If two doctors tell him he's blind as a bat and unsafe to drive, would he believe it? Probably not, but it would be interesting to find out why he thinks a medical professional who has no personal stake in whether he drives or not would tell him not to get behind the wheel. It's not as if they get a cash bonus for every senior driver they take off the road. The oldsters just love to drive, don't they? My late father actually sneaked into the police impound yard, where his car was taken after he continued to drive despite his license being revoked by the state DMV, and took it back! It's astonishing the lengths they'll go to just to have the thrill of zipping down the highways and byways like Mister Toad, endangering everyone in their path. Probably the best thing you can do is to follow pamstegman's advice. The doc has a duty to report, if he or she hasn't already done so. You can also disable the car, or take it "into the shop to be fixed," where it will remain forever, due to lack of the proper parts.
Thanks all I of course have thought about all of those....the 2nd opinion was greated with i cant take him he will take himself so hes assured i cant set it up....disabelling his car is a no go he will just fix it...i am however thinking of putting a club on it....and just letting him discover it...that will piss him off but better that than killing someone. The eye dr has to write a letter to his reg dr who in turn reports it to the DMV and then they will write a letter to my dad asking him to turn in his licence....that takes time thou and the poor people of our town dont have time.....lol
Your profile says Dad has dementia. Reasoning with someone who is losing/has lost the ability to reason is a frustrating exercise in futility.
Stop trying to "convince" him. You know he shouldn't drive. Prevent him from doing so by any means you can devise. Getting his license revoked takes time and it may not even stop him. (Do it anyway, of course.) Making the car undrivable may be the safest approach.
This is soooo hard for him, and for you. I offer you both my sympathies.
He's probably defiant and in denial because loss of driving privileges is a major step toward loss of independence. He's no longer a free individual but would have to depend on others, and no one who values his/her independence really wants to be in that position.
Call his eye doctor and ask if he can quickly write the letter to accelerate the license revocation process.
I don't think your father will listen to you, especially given his demonstrated refusal to listen to the doctor, so you'll have to manipulate behind the scenes.
Suggest he get a second opinion. Drive him to the appointment 'just for now, to be on the safe side' and when the second opinion follows the first, probably verbatim, ask the second doctor to explain to your father what the legal consequences of his driving would be. (Choose the right doc, one who'll be content to be the 'bad cop.')
When your father then alleges that this second doctor is also a quack/stooge/role-playing actor or whatever, give up and call the driver licensing authorities yourself. You will have done all you can to put it nicely, it will be time to get serious about stopping him.
"Im lost...he wont listen to me thinks im stupid and i dont know what im talking about"
I forgot to say: he thinks no such thing. He thinks he's facing giving up driving and he REALLY doesn't like that. When he says you don't know what you're talking about, or that you're being stupid, this is the accurate translation: "I am desperate and you are not backing me up."
With that I sympathise. I will not be chirpy about it when I have to stop driving, either. But to drive despite his failing eyesight is NOT going to be the answer to his problem. Counting up the money he'll save not running a car - fuel, road tax, insurance, maintenance, parking charges - now, that might cheer him up a bit.
Is his car worth anything? Would its resale price buy him something he's always wanted?
And, by the way, helping him figure out how he's going to get around once he's not driving is very important. Otherwise he'll feel like he's under house arrest.
As much as you may love your dad, the answer to this question seems simple to me. Lose the keys (hide them), make the necessary arrangements to have his license revoked (kindly) with a written notification sent in the mail. And if all that fails, disable the car from starting by having a kill switch installed that only you know about. In the end, the answer is "no" for your dad driving. Just think of all the innocent pedestrians that will be subject to your dad's decision-making abilities and poor sight. You'd never live it down if someone was injured, or worse yet, killed as a result of letting your dad drive his car. It sounds mean in a way, but it is the kindest thing you could to for all involved, including you.
I write this to you because I have a man for whom I provide care. He enjoys the freedom of driving his own car but knows that his vision is progressively failing due to retina and other eye problem, but there are other health and mental problems that make his driving even more dangerous than merely his poor sight. With all that said, I am the person who is now doing most of his driving as I take him to a multitude of doctors' appointments weekly. On the occasions when he does drive, I keep a close eye on his maneuvering of the car controls and I am always at the ready to step in...even from the passenger's seat. I am always relieved when he surrenders the keys gently for me to drive us. Losing my own freedom to drive would be difficult to accept, so I can certainly understand his reluctance to hand over the keys.
It is always in everyone's best interest to somehow, someway -- even if it becomes a big white lie -- not let unfit people drive on our roads and highways.
The best way I helped my father acclimate to being driven by me after he wisely but somewhat grudgingly stopped driving was to treat him after we drove anywhere. We went places he liked - Man Cave stores, Dairy Queen, favorite restaurants.
My goal was for him to look forward to the treat as a part of leaving the driving to me.
He found it's also easier when the weather is bad, especially this past winter, as he can get door to door service rather than having to park and walk across possibly slippery areas.
Now I get drenched by rain while he stays in the car!
This is sooo hard for a man to accept. But, if it is an issue, it is not something to mess around about. You have to prevent him from driving how ever you have to. I have been there. I understand that once, a reasonable & thoughtful person, like my dad, who would never want to hurt anyone, is now not able to "reason" things out. Even w/ the evidence all over his vehicle, (dings & cracked tail& head lights), he was persistent about driving anyway. Then, an act of God happened. Someone had tried to steal a neighbor's truck about 3:A.M. one Sat. morning. The owner woke up & started shooting at the thief who proceeded out of their driveway, two houses down, & rove right off the road & slammed into my dad's car, then his car hit my car which was parked parallel to his. Luckily, we had full coverage. The insurance company totaled his Camry & repaired the damage to my car which was only about $2400. Dad got the $ from the insurance company & my siblings & I told him to leave it in the bank and add to the"car fund" whenever he could. I promised him that after his "eye surgery" we would revisit the issue of him driving, as I was certain he would be able to see much better once his cataracts were removed. He accepted that. Since his surgery, he can see much better. But, his reaction time, depth perception, reflexes, etc... are not better, but worse. I purchased a new Camry since then, & drive him & my son to school & doctor's & store now. I "let him" drive in a parking lot twice since then. He went a few inches, put it in park & "high-fived" me like, "Yeah, I still got it"! And he never talks about driving anymore unless he thinks I need him to. (When I don't get off work in time to pick up my son, he volunteers. I always say, I'll let him know if I can't get somebody else & we act like we know he could drive if he had to--But, I always make certain he never does). He still has his license & is proud of it. But, I think even he is relieved that he does not have to drive anymore. Good luck to you while you find your own "act of God" to help you with your deli ma as well. Take care! blou
Dar, this is really hard for you, and probably even more difficult for your dad. ! Y dad didn't have dementia, he had leukemia. He died a week after his doc told him he could no longer drive. I think it killed something in him. But you cannot let him drive, ehich is the part that's hard for you. From here on in, I think it really depends upon your dad's personality and your relationship. Is he going to storm around sn be agitated non stop about the driving issue? Or is he at the stage where he'll move on to some other concern? It's probably time to step back, as we caregivers all have to do from time to time, and see if he's moved into a new stage ehich may require a different level of care.
No cant sell the car, LOL 1st of all he would notice it missing, yes he has dementia, stage 2, but hes not so far gone he dosnt know whats going on...hes very nasty towards me, and my brother as well, BUt I live in the same town as my dad and basically look after everything for him, he has no idea how to pay bills or anything of that nature, my Mom use to do it all. She passed 16 months ago, I feel sorry for him cause I know not to drive is losing ur independence, but on the other hand hes just so mean & nasty, and very scary behind the wheel, I have called his Dr, & the police, and am just waiting for calls back, police cant do anything as of yet cause until he get the letter from the DMV to turn in his licence hes still allowed to drive!!! LOL Eye dr says no driving but the letter needs to come!!
Dar, if you have poa, you can and MUST sell the car if that's what it takes to keep him from driving. Or park it in an undisclosed location. Which is worse, his anger or how you're going to feel when he kills the pregnant mom and her two year old? It happens all the time. If he's no longer rational, then taking his license from him may not be enough.
I did suggest getting a 2nd opinion and offered to take him his response was he would go himself cause he thinks i setup the last test so he would fail it......he thinks its my fault. I have been driving my parents around in the big city for years but in our small town they were driving. He not only has eye sight issues he has mobility issues as well....he has had a few accidents where they didnt go thru their insurance instead paid the damages themselves.. so there fore it was not reported. All this including losing my mom who was my best friend 16 months ago unexpectanly has played havoc on my own health...I have COPD and use oxygen so none of this is easy for me either....i get the loss of ur licence is devastating... he has in the ladt few years always talked about when he lost his licence he would be ok.. we got him a great little scooter....and now hes fighting it all the way. Im doing the best I can. Thanks all for your input :)
Darbaby, I'm sorry. You sound so sad and upset, and I don't blame you.
Are your local social services involved with you and your Dad? If not, I wonder if it's time you gave them a ring. He seems to need a lot of support, and given his attitude to you and your own health needs it doesn't seem like a good idea for you to be his main caregiver. Why not give them a call and ask for advice? - you should be able to find contact details on line pretty easily.
By the way, this would not be grassing on him! Most social workers are practical, sensible people who set out to help, that's all. And I think you really need a bit of space to look after yourself, and to recover more from the loss of your mother. Just an idea, take care of yourself x
Hi Darbaby, When you have the time, it might be a good idea to make a trip to the DMV and explain to an administrator the urgency of the situation and why you need to get that letter in your hands immediately. It's terrible to think that one has to be so devious, or seemingly devious, to one's own parent, but it is the right thing to do. Keep him off the road even if it means a low-grade argument over it. Just think if he were to accidentally strike someone on the road, or cause a serious road accident involving him and other innocent people. I know this must be incredibly difficult, if not darned impossible to do, but we'll all sleep better knowing he is off the road and not a menace to himself and others. --- BIG HUGs ---
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
The oldsters just love to drive, don't they? My late father actually sneaked into the police impound yard, where his car was taken after he continued to drive despite his license being revoked by the state DMV, and took it back! It's astonishing the lengths they'll go to just to have the thrill of zipping down the highways and byways like Mister Toad, endangering everyone in their path.
Probably the best thing you can do is to follow pamstegman's advice. The doc has a duty to report, if he or she hasn't already done so. You can also disable the car, or take it "into the shop to be fixed," where it will remain forever, due to lack of the proper parts.
Stop trying to "convince" him. You know he shouldn't drive. Prevent him from doing so by any means you can devise. Getting his license revoked takes time and it may not even stop him. (Do it anyway, of course.) Making the car undrivable may be the safest approach.
This is soooo hard for him, and for you. I offer you both my sympathies.
Call his eye doctor and ask if he can quickly write the letter to accelerate the license revocation process.
I don't think your father will listen to you, especially given his demonstrated refusal to listen to the doctor, so you'll have to manipulate behind the scenes.
I like the idea of a club on the steering wheel.
When your father then alleges that this second doctor is also a quack/stooge/role-playing actor or whatever, give up and call the driver licensing authorities yourself. You will have done all you can to put it nicely, it will be time to get serious about stopping him.
I forgot to say: he thinks no such thing. He thinks he's facing giving up driving and he REALLY doesn't like that. When he says you don't know what you're talking about, or that you're being stupid, this is the accurate translation: "I am desperate and you are not backing me up."
With that I sympathise. I will not be chirpy about it when I have to stop driving, either. But to drive despite his failing eyesight is NOT going to be the answer to his problem. Counting up the money he'll save not running a car - fuel, road tax, insurance, maintenance, parking charges - now, that might cheer him up a bit.
Is his car worth anything? Would its resale price buy him something he's always wanted?
And, by the way, helping him figure out how he's going to get around once he's not driving is very important. Otherwise he'll feel like he's under house arrest.
Also I agree with Countrymouse that is very important that you let him know he will not be deserted without a car/license..
I write this to you because I have a man for whom I provide care. He enjoys the freedom of driving his own car but knows that his vision is progressively failing due to retina and other eye problem, but there are other health and mental problems that make his driving even more dangerous than merely his poor sight. With all that said, I am the person who is now doing most of his driving as I take him to a multitude of doctors' appointments weekly. On the occasions when he does drive, I keep a close eye on his maneuvering of the car controls and I am always at the ready to step in...even from the passenger's seat. I am always relieved when he surrenders the keys gently for me to drive us. Losing my own freedom to drive would be difficult to accept, so I can certainly understand his reluctance to hand over the keys.
It is always in everyone's best interest to somehow, someway -- even if it becomes a big white lie -- not let unfit people drive on our roads and highways.
My goal was for him to look forward to the treat as a part of leaving the driving to me.
He found it's also easier when the weather is bad, especially this past winter, as he can get door to door service rather than having to park and walk across possibly slippery areas.
Now I get drenched by rain while he stays in the car!
LOL Eye dr says no driving but the letter needs to come!!
Are your local social services involved with you and your Dad? If not, I wonder if it's time you gave them a ring. He seems to need a lot of support, and given his attitude to you and your own health needs it doesn't seem like a good idea for you to be his main caregiver. Why not give them a call and ask for advice? - you should be able to find contact details on line pretty easily.
By the way, this would not be grassing on him! Most social workers are practical, sensible people who set out to help, that's all. And I think you really need a bit of space to look after yourself, and to recover more from the loss of your mother. Just an idea, take care of yourself x