Mom is 92 with dementia and has been in her tiny little room since March. I was allowed in til about 2 months ago, then they kicked me out cause county cases had risen. I was an exception to the rule due to mom's mental condition and she gets so lonely and is completely dependent. With me getting covid tested and wearing a mask, why can’t I get her and take her for a ride or come in? It seems residents have no rights. Shouldn’t they be able to choose what risk they want to take?
My first thought from a corporate/business standpoint is not just the safety of your mother, but the liability of the staff and ownership. They have no control over where you might take her, she might become exposed and expose others in the facility. Despite the widespread pandemic, business people still need to be concerned about liability for themselves, individually and as staff, and obviously for residents and guests.
Similar issues arise with your coming inside. Unless they do contact tracing before you enter, they have no idea of your potential exposure.
The conclusion that "it seems residents have no rights" doesn't factor in the biggest right of all: to be as safe as possible. As to choosing what risks individuals in care centers want to take, there are so many factors involved: mental status of the residents, ability to make decisions, masking and taking other precautions (which the staff can't control once someone is out of the facility), and more.
It seems harsh, and there's no question that the pandemic has created disruptions throughout the world, but the staff are acting on behalf of those in their care. I'd be glad that they are taking those precautions.
Shielding, or strict quarantine, takes away everything that still has any meaning to many older people and doesn't guarantee them any prospect of better things to come. They say (and I see their point) that they really might just as well be dead.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-andbe-nursing-home-norton-kansas-all-residents-some-staff-have-covid-10-deaths/
I am actually surprised that anyone would choose to take the risk of infection to say nothing about the risk that they pose to everyone they come in contact with.
Yes, understand the concern about isolation and depression it is being felt by so many, not just the elderly.
So, technically, a 92 year old lady is free to leave her facility (if she or her agent has the legal competence to decide so). But she ain't then free to come back in again, onto the premises and among the staff she necessarily shares with other residents. The facility has a duty to limit infection risk as far as possible, and that includes restricting residents' social interactions.
The conflict between the risks of Covid and the risks of isolation for older, frail and/or mentally frail people is an absolute bloody nightmare and I do not have any answer.
Distributed games and puzzles are no substitute for friends and family. Could there not be an effort to make video face time visits available? Electronically uneducated elderly could be helped by those who normally supervise other activities.. Could physical exercise classes be conducted with social distancing to avoid physical decline? How about some "group therapy" sessions with participants, socially distancing, sharing how isolation is affecting them. I realize such activities would require planning, work and time, but staff is no longer transporting residents for outings and shopping or organizing programs or games. Coping with COVID is not easy for anyone...especially for those whose lives are severely curtailed but without support from anyone. Just delivering meals and housekeeping services does not make everyday life bearable. And families are no longer able to provide observation or assistance.
I agree with you.
Yes, we may be covid-free but many residents are alarmingly depressed, withdrawn, sometimes openly hostile. Some are not eating, physically weak from lack of exercise, falling more often (that's worrisome!) More residents now (in my view) show mental confusion, even disorientation. The facility's answer is to provide puzzles, paper and pencil games to combat "boredom".
Physical and mental decline can and do occur in the elderly population. But it appears to me there has been a sharp increase where I live. I myself, battle with depression and sleeplessness. It seems that "normal" life will never return for us.
I believe these visitation restrictions are causing an increase of physical and mental decline within the elderly population in facilities.
If visitors are the problem for Nursing Facilities, then why did so many residents die of covid during shutdown?
If you are telling me the reason why nursing facilities are not allowing visitors is because the residents are vulnerable then please tell me why visitors are being allowed in hospitals?
You do realize there are way more patients in a hospital than there is in a facility? Do you understand how sick/vulnerable a lot of these patients are? Some have serious health issues.
You don't think the employees go in and out of these facilities and go around other people?
Furthermore, none of my comments/responses imply that I don't understand the seriousness of this virus or how easily it is transmitted.
I am said, if visitors are allowed in the hospital then there should be no reason visitors should not be allowed in Nursing Facilities.
I also said, If social distancing, wearing masks, having designated areas and lysol work, "Let's do this." We want to see our loved ones.
It's time to get real ... It doesn't make any sense.
SN: I don't agree with a resident leaving a facility. A nursing facility can monitor what is going on inside their building, however, they can not monitor what goes on outside.
Also, how can the facility "know" that the resident only went for a ride and did not come into contact with someone who has COVID (with or without symptoms)?
The LTC facilities have enough problems trying to keep the staff from getting COVID and infecting the residents. Taking someone for a ride just adds another risk that some facilities do not want to take.
A "responsible Administrator" will monitor what goes on in her/his facility with visitors but can not monitor what happens outside.
I am so sorry.
The visitors are the ones that are wanting to do all the right things in order to be able to see their loved one. They are the ones that really want their loved ones safe and unharmed.
I'm pretty sure they are willing to do their part.
All I hear is, "Got to keep the elderly safe, they are the most vulnerable." OK. I get that.
However, I think more concern should be that of staff and not of visitors.
An employee is more subtle to be more careless on the job than someone who is visiting their loved one.
I'm pretty certain after so many hours of staff wearing a mask, they are more tempted to put that mask aside (even if just for a min) "to breath." I have witnessed this many times at the facilities.
Plenty of times I've seen staff without a mask on. Rather they got distracted, forgot, needed a moment to breathe or whatever.
So technically, it is not a "visitor thing."
Once again, We have a designated area, lysol, hand sanitizer and masks. BAM
What's the problem?
IT'S TIME TO BE REAL.
The problem is that it is too big a risk to have visitors going in and out. The problem is that people do not understand how serious this is and how easily it can be transmitted.
It’s time to get real... that COVID is serious and you cannot have people going in and out (who have also been aroud other people) daily and just hope no one gets sick.
Still, I would like to express my deepest condolences for the loss of your father. I can’t imagine how horrible it is to lose a loved one to Covid.
Wishing you peace during this difficult time in your life. Will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.
I don’t see how there can be a happy medium. We have to be cautious above all else for everyone’s safety.
Doctors, nurses, all medical staff have been infected by Covid and sadly some people have lost their lives.
Certainly all medical staff deserves our gratitude and respect. They have worked diligently throughout difficult challenging times. We need them to care for the community. They have generously given their time and talent to serve those in need.
Residents in many facilities all over the world have become very sick, suffered and died.
Residents at facilities are extremely vulnerable. To tell the truth we are all at risk even though some are at a much higher risk. No one is immune to it.
Does that mean that I have no empathy for residents being alone or children wanting to see their elderly parents? Oh no, of course I feel for them. But for now, we have to be reasonable and abide by the regulations of the facilities or any other public building.
Have any of you noticed out of order signs on public bathrooms? I have. They don’t have the staff to keep up with all of the sanitation that is needed today.
We are living in a different world, yeah it does feel like the twilight zone but it’s our reality for now. Let’s hope and pray that it doesn’t last for too much longer. It’s going to be awhile because we don’t have a vaccine yet.
Let’s support each other and we will get through this challenging time. Past generations got through health crisis in their day.
Please keep in mind that facility cannot properly monitor resident that is taken out and brought back in. Did they take all the precautions? Are they asymptomatic? This is hard on everyone's psychological health, but it is what it is - a serious medical/quarantine issue, not a political one. And people have, are and will die because of public failure to support preventive measures.
The facilities are doing the best they can do. And the NH population is more vulnerable. Of the 230,000 deaths in the United Stated, 80% of them are people over 65 years old and of that group, 40% of the deaths are people in nursing homes of some type. So the facilities are trying to keep them alive. Yes, the isolation might be hastening their declines but the facilities cannot do anything about that beyond what they can do, We did not see my FIL from March until he died on May 18th. So I do understand that this is difficult but when you look at the stats, taking people out of the facility for a ride is just too risky. How would they control the exposure that occurred. You take them for a ride, they get exposed, maybe by you and you bring them back so they can infect 10 people before anyone knows it has happened.
How many of the deaths were actually covid and not the underlying ailment? I question the numbers because of the financial incentives offered for caring for covid patients. Were they even tested?
Don't get me wrong, I think that all reasonable precautions should be taken but, the reality is that people are failing because of the isolation. Is letting our elders die alone and believing that they have been forgotten really the best solution we can find? Especially when caregivers are the ones bringing it in to the facilities.
At the nursing facilities there is a "designated area", hand sanitizer, lysol - the visitors are wearing face masks and sitting six feet apart. Can't spread the virus like this. Right?
Now, let's compare a hospital to a nursing facility. There are way more patients in a hospital than there is in a facility whom are very sick and vulnerable. Patients there are being allowed visitors.
This is just doesn't add up.
Don't you think all of the patients would love for their family to come in, or go for a ride? And if 50% are really careful going in/going out, wouldn't you be a little upset if someone on the other side of that fence brought a huge covid outbreak and gave it to your mom?
They have no idea where you take mom, if you're really a masker when you are out, or if your family might be a bunch of anti-maskers. If case count went higher in your area, locking them down is the best defense they have. It's bad enough the staff have to come and go as a means for the virus to travel, but that is unavoidable. There was a nursing home in Texas where every single patient and all of the staff caught it - several died, including our neighbor's relative.
You/your mom do have rights/choices to make. Leave her there following the facility rules to avoid covid outbreak or take her to your house until they come up with a vaccine that works. Then you can come/go as you please.
You getting a covid test today at 1:00 certainly doesn't mean you can't be exposed to it by 2:00. The mask helps to contain your coughing, but if you get around others sharing their coughing fits and germs with everyone in a public setting, there's still a chance of getting it. Our job, as I see it, is to protect our families and those we don't know who could be at risk. Until we all get on board to take precautions for those we don't even know, I think we'll continue to see the spikes pop up. Wear the mask for someone else!!! - I wouldn't want you to bring in the virus and make my grandmother sick or kill her, she had the rights too. To expect facility to keep her safe.
You might get an ipad or other device so staff could help her connect with you. Maybe that would help both of you.
I feel like isolating them is doing more harm than good. I can only imagine how they feel.
I don't agree to letting the residents leave the facility but I do believe they should be allowed visitors.
They can use the same protocols in a nursing facility as they do in any other place.
Designate an area, check temperatures, require masks, use hand sanitizers and keep 6 feet apart?
What am I missing, here?
Would you be able to accept that? Was the risk worth it? H*ll no.
Facilities with vulnerable people HAVE TO be vigilant if they want their residents to remain alive and mostly well. They aren’t restricting to be mean or paranoid. It legit is a matter of life or death.
I don’t get the censoring; not like there’s 10 year olds on here. Carry on, dernit!
She too “gets so lonely” and is completely dependent. In fact I’m her only living relative.
She became ill on a Friday, and the person who infected her had no symptoms until the Sunday afternoon following.
If you are in a high risk area, which most US areas are, your mom would be vulnerable to exposure too.
It really isn’t an issue of residents’ “rights”. In my area, it’s STILL a matter of safety. My heart breaks for both of us, you and me.
Being responsible for someone I care so deeply for, and not being able to assure her that I’m nearby and LOVE HER, is unbearable to me. When the phone rings at any time of day or not, I break into a cold sweat, each time thinking it may be that call informing me that she’s gone.
I have cautious hopes that I may be able to see her indoors at some point soon enough that she’ll still know who I am. I doubt that I’ll be able to hug her, but if/when I’m allowed to, it will be the biggest, gentlest hug I know how to give.
Hopes and prayers that you will be United SOON, with your mom. I know only too well how painful this is.
Very tough times. Is your LO in a facility? My daughter has just now returned to teaching, Washington State. I can tell you they are all pretty terrified. A friend went to a Seattle SeaHawks party where 17 were attending. 7 got it. One has died of it. Principal already has informed a friend tested positive so he is out for 14 days isolation. It seems to me it is coming fast, and hitting closer to home.
I understand the fact the Nursing Facilities want to follow guidelines in what they think will keep their residents safe. That part is understood and no questions asked.
However, Have they ever thought what damage is being done to these elderly by keeping them imprisoned? (sort of speak) Do they not understand this isolation is not good on their mental and physical well being?
Imagine the loneliness they must feel. How about the sadness and depression from not seeing their loved ones. Could this not add stress to the physical body? (heart)
I do understand here, there are measures to take to ensure safety. For instance, You can go to the doctor's office. They will check your temperature, keep you 6 feet apart and require a mask.
I feel the same can be done in a Nursing Facility.
Where the is a will, there is a way.
Think about the employees there. When they are not working, they are out and about. Can possibly get contaminated, Right?
So, the same measures the facilities use for their employees to return into the building are the same measures they can use on the visitors?
I think that the only reason it is not allowed to give elders a ride away from their facility, say into the country, is that the facility cannot trust that their rules will be obeyed. For instance, Mom may insist on a shopping stop at Target, there get the virus, and bring it back home with her.
I don't want to start a campaign in my state. I am not an essential worker. I am not a caregiver. It is hard enough to keep them Covid free as it is. There is really no good solution here. Since the overall death toll of Covid in people over 65 who are in nursing homes is roughly 3 percent of total population, some argue that the country should not be shut down at all.