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My family members and I have taken on the responsibility to help care for my 92 year old loved one. Her husband of 69 years passed away in February. She wants to remain in her home and that's also what we want for her. She has had 24/7 care through an agency since her husband's passing. My loved one does not have any children and three of the four of us that are helping her stay in her home live out of state. My mother is the only family that lives in the same state. Because of there not being much family around and because we truly care that our loved one is okay, my family placed Blink cameras in the house (well before caregivers came into the picture) so that we could monitor things and would know if an emergency came up. The caregiving agency was told about the cameras when they were brought on board and the cameras are in no way hidden. They are out in the open and can be seen.



The caregivers have a big problem with the cameras and go so far as to move the cameras, turn them upside down, and hide them. It has gotten so bad that a caregiver just sat in front of one of the cameras and started cursing at my family and is now walking around the house with no shirt on.



Is it uncommon for people to have cameras when there are strangers in a home with their loved one 24/7?

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I read half the responses and didn’t see this scenario. Our youngest sister takes care of our mid 80’s parents, who have poor health, and dementia. Mom is immobile and incontinent. Our sister refuses help and is in full power, cause our parents gave her the POA, full control and they think she knows everything. She never left their home, and their codependent behavior is crippling to all three of them.

When I’m visiting their three bed, two bath small condo, that the three oldest daughters and our families relocated them to, after 43 in their big split level, that they stopped taking care of responsibly, and mom could barely get up the stairs, I felt pretty sure cameras were installed and whenever I am in their home, I’m not left alone with my parents. Our sister guards her mommy and daddy from the oldest two daughters, me and two year younger sis, cause we are as different from her as it gets, raised by parents that did not let us do whatever we wanted, there is a 14 year difference, between me and my youngest fulltime caregiving sister. She is in the job cause she never left home, and she knows to let mom and dad do as they please, the same way they expected nothing of their youngest daughter. Us older kids did not get this extraordinary privilege and we have always been dutiful to our parents. But the oldest three began our own lives, had our own family.

If caregivers paid to take care of family members are upset to have cameras on them at all times, try being a daughter who has a sister that feels she must protect her parents from, for no damn reason. I always behave appropriately, could care less if she is recording me, and a mentally ill note, from our youngest sister, let us know she is saving every word on the fourway sister thread. When I expressed a frustration that she shared no actual medical information, she blasted me with 30 screenshots, taken of conversation from the fourway sister text chain, she considers evidence she does give us info. I could have used those same screenshots to prove my case to be true. It is maddening, the crap she writes to us as tho we know nothing about memory loss disease, medical issues, and her condescending, patronizing behavior, makes it tough to hang in there for our parents, cause they created this monster.

I appreciate this forum cause you folks helped me realize it is their problem and I am not obligated, should have no fear of guilt cause my parents aged badly, no responsibility for their own health. They have all the health problems that lead to dementia, and their two oldest daughters are doing everything to break the generational curses, in our dysfunctional family.

I will never do to my son and daughter what my parents did to our younger sister, and she sadly owes them, cause she never left them. Her enabling turned them into people that left us much earlier than necessary. Our parents did not become the partners they needed to be, to take care of themselves, like their older children are doing now, in our 60’s.

I will never cause a fight or try to take over my mom and dad. I will visit often enough to ensure they are safe, and until they ask for help, our youngest sister will bear all the burden for the choices she alone made. I am certain I will have zero relationship with her after our parents die, as well as the third down narcissistic horrible sister. Us two older gals will look out for each other and our husbands, encourage each other to keep moving, and none of us are taking the medicine the other four family members do, cause they depend on pills to keep them alive. Vitamins are what us four oldest, next generation family members take. We benefitted from knowing some health things truly matter, and moving is one of them. Mom stopped moving way young and now dad had to sit next to her every minute, cause she is afraid of life. Memory loss disease is hell on earth, but much can be avoided, if one just doesn’t sit 24/7. Cameras don’t bother me. Film away. ♥️
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Yes, it helped my when wife decided to take off from the house.
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Yes! I believe a camera is a must for their safety! You need to fire that nasty arrogant caregiver! To curse like that in front of the camera?? Obviously they have something to hide that they don’t want you to see. My mom is 84 with dementia and I have a baby camera on her at all times. I am fortunate that the caregivers that come to care for her (she lives with us but I do run out frequently when they are here so far only 4 hrs a day) they know about it and do not have a problem with it. I MAINLY use it to check on her especially at night as she has a tendency to get up out of bed and falls a lot. Terrible that you need to worry about the caregivers on top of worrying about your mom. Appalling behavior that needs to be reported to the agency that you have put your trust in.
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Fire them immediately that’s your love one how dare they.
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Everyone...the agency did get rid of the caregiver. We found out yesterday that a report to APS has been made against my family. When this caregiver was told she would no longer be on this case, she said she was going to "tell all". And then texted one of my family members and said "it's on". A week later, APS is standing at my loved one's door. The complaints are so totally false. Asked if someone was stealing her money and if someone (a male family member) was watching her undress on the cameras. Of course, my 92 year old loved one just shook her head yes to everything (according to the caregiver there with her). We know that all of this is ABSOLUTELY FALSE and beyond absurd, but are now worried because my loved one nodded yes to his questions. When my mom and I talked with her about the visit yesterday afternoon, she at first had no remembrance of anyone visiting her, then when reminded someone had come to see her, she had no clue who the guy was and no idea what questions he asked her or what she said yes to. Surely APS will talk to more people than just my 92 year old loved one. It's been over 24 hours and they have not called any of us family members (including POAs) or the caregiving agency. I guess my question is, should one of us call this guy to give our side of the story or wait for them to contact us?
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Llamalover47 May 2023
JenUA1: Thank you for your update.
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Good point Burnt. You'd think an agency would inform their caregivers about security cameras in the home.
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The cameras are in plain sight. They had them prior to this agency for the moms security and to check on her well being. Many people have security cameras in their home. I would definitely put up a few camera in use signs
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BurntCaregiver May 2023
@Catskie

If the agency agreed that they are fine with their caregivers being on camera then there should not have been a problem.

Were the caregivers told they were going to be on camera? That would have been the responsibility of the agency who employs them to let them know.
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I was an in-home caregiver mostly to the elderly for 25 years. I would not tolerate cameras on me and would refuse a position if cameras were involved. Any family I ever worked for was invited by myself personally to check my spotless work references even if the job was through an agency.

When there are cameras set up this usually means that the client doesn't have people (family, friends, advocates) regularly checking up on them and they should. When there aren't outside people checking up on a person what usually ends up happening is WAY too much responsibility gets put on the aide and the agency she works for.
I operate a homecare business. When I go out to open a new case I always ask if there are cameras. I always ask how often family (or any outside people) stop by to check up on the potential new client. If the answer is the elder is alone, no one is nearby to regularly check up on them, and the cameras are permanent, I will tell them that we cannot meet their care needs in most cases.
I know what ends up happening in situations like this because I've had it happen to me a few times.

Also, you may not know this but hidden cameras are illegal in some states. They have to be police-sanctioned because there is probable cause to put them in.

Do your homework and investigate the caregivers coming into the home on your own. Don't leave this one-hundred percent up to the care agency. Most agencies will hire anyone because their bosses don't do their jobs.
I do, but then I demand perfection from my caregivers because they get paid way better than any I know of.

Personally, I have a problem with cameras now and when I still worked in the field. The aides should not be touching your property and moving them though. The agency who sends them to your loved one should be having a talk with you. I certainly would.
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JenUA1: It's good that you're in search of a new agency.
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Yes, we have cameras in the living room, kitchen and my parents' bedroom - not in the bathroom or in the caregiver's guest room. I always let the caregivers know immediately during my initial orientation and hiring that we have 24/7 visual and auditory support so that my sister and I are able to monitor my parents. I have never had a caregiver or caregiver agency object to this and I have never had a caregiver attempt to move or modify a camera in any way. If anyone objected or tampered with it I would fire them immediately. This is not a negotiable policy. My family's peace of mind that my parents are safe and well cared for is supported by those cameras and they will remain there permanently You must fire anyone who objects to being observed - that speaks volumes!
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Hi there! I'm so sorry that you are dealing with some horrible caregivers. I'm a caregiver myself and have worked in several environment. Proud to say I have worked with Ms Doris Day until her passing. Camera is totally fine. If a caregiver is not doing anything wrong why would they be bothered by "family members " checking on their loved ones and their home? Where I'm working now (3 yrs & counting ) ,there's a camera inside my client's bedroom . That is where we watch tv . We all are good with the camera. I think the best thing that family members can do is inform the caregivers that there are cameras. If they are not ok with it well there are other jobs.

PS
You do need to get rid of the Cg that are cussing and naked on the camera.
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JenUA1 May 2023
The agency did end up taking her off the case. She then threatened to take action against us. Yesterday, APS showed up at my loved one's house with claims that we are stealing her money and that one of my male family members is watching her undress on the cameras. We haven't yet heard from APS. We're not sure if we need to call the guy or wait for him to call us. It's all just an absolutely CRAZY situation. We've tried and tried to do everything we could think of to make sure my loved one is safe, happy, and comfortable, but it feels like trying to take care of her is now getting us "punished". We've obviously done nothing wrong, but when people are willing to go to great lengths to lie, you never know who might end up believing those lies. Sigh...
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I have had cameras (also approved and not hidden) when my mom was in a facility and now in a cottage next to my house for the past 5 years. She has dementia and does not have a voice. I am her voice and she is my responsibility. I have amazing caregivers who could care less if the camera is on. It is so scary to me that you have caregivers who block cameras or walk around without their shirt on. I would never allow this, they would be fired immediately. Anyone who is afraid to be observed doing their job should set off an alarm in your mind as to what type of care they are providing. I don't have camera's to "watch" the caregivers so much as to watch my mom and observe behavior changes when I can't be there and also occasionally pop in to see if it is a good time to visit (ie: is she sleeping, getting changed, eating, etc). I am not a voyeur who likes to watch my caregivers all day for the fun of it. People who are offended by camera's because they think people should be trusted should check my hours of footage of my mom being abused and neglected in facility when the cameras were obvious and it was posted that there were camera's present. I feel sorry for the memory care residents who did not have camera's, I can't even imagine the care they received. I you want to be an advocate for your loved one, you should have a camera...PERIOD.
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How about a compromise? Get your loved one placed so that professionals can work with her.
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I had 4 cameras (Wyze system--you can move the camera lens, and zoom in and out) for 6 years in my mom's apartment so I could monitor my mother's state while caregiving from afar. NOT in the bathroom, though--the caregivers have a right to privacy there, needless to say. And NOT in a private bedroom if they are live-in--also needless to say.

But I did tape down the cameras and if they are installed in the ceiling (Blink and others have mounts) they cannot cover them and they also may seem a bit less obtrusive. So you have to try to reconfigure them so they can be higher up and less obvious.

Regardless no one should move your personal property etc. ...but with 24/7 care you will not always get the top picks of caregivers. (clearly! Yike on the one without the shirt, she should be arrested not fired).

As long as the caregivers are told and aware before they come it is okay--there are however times caregivers from an agency take on the job last minute and may not be okay with it. However, they indeed should be fired if they meddle with the equipment. They can choose to not take the job. Not even sure personally how I would feel. But then don't take the job.

I did explain to the caregivers when I could that the purpose is not to monitor them but monitor my mom when she was away. And personally, I found it distasteful to look in when they were working--it felt like spying. Also--with 24/7 care, I don't want to begrudge someone downtime, so I really just used it for when the caregivers were not there. But my mother could speak up for herself and would tell me if something was wrong.

I would never do it any other way--the anxiety of not knowing how she was walking, etc was too great and too hard to monitor without a camera. We could only afford 2-4 hours of care a day (which actually was sufficient since the cameras allowed us to monitor her otherwise). I would do it with a child too. I was a nanny for years and always acted as if there was a camera there, and based on things I saw, anyone with a child would be insane to not have a camera in their home. It can be unpleasant but in all professions now workers are monitored. Such is the case here as well. But again--I tried to emphasize this was not out of distrust for the worker but care for my mom. You are doing the right thing.
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Unfortunately, we were not able to secure 24//7 care but we did have cameras activated for the time we could get someone to show up. None of them had an issue with the cameras. We did not have them in the bathroom for privacy but we could hear what was going on since it was a tiny house.
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Absolutely and I hope you fired those people who moved your cameras and cursed your family. that cursed one you should’ve reported to the company. And report every single one of them that touches it to their company.

That’s exactly what I had. Three cameras out in the open - one in the bedroom, one in the kitchen and one in the living room and if they messed with the cameras I fired them.

There are evil caregivers out there who will steal everything of value or sentimental value to you. You absolutely have to have them and if you actually catch them in the act you should file a police report. Make that very clear to them they’re not allowed to touch them or they will be fired. Good luck
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I had cameras in my DH aunts home for several years. She had mild dementia when we first installed them. They were in plain view and we told everyone that worked for her that they were installed. No one had a problem with them. Over the years I did not ever have a problem with a worker caught on camera. In fact, they encouraged the use of the cameras because they were concerned about aunt as well. What I did catch on camera was a family member (her nephew) dropping off his mother (90s) with aunt while he went hunting with his friends and another time this same pair, mother and son, moving in when they had a water issue at their home.
It was a tough situation. Aunt had welcomed them with open arms. They were completely tone deaf on the impropriety of their actions or the degree of her impairment. Of course, aunt loved it and her aide was a good sport.
The cameras were also useful for when she accidentally pressed the button on her Medialert. I could quickly check in and see that all was well. I could also see how she declined over the years and it was helpful in increasing hours and layers of help.
I think your current caregiver is a little too much “at home” and wants to forget she is there to work. She seems to have some mental impairment of her own walking around w/o a shirt. Her discussing the cameras with your loved one and making her feel anything but cared for is cruel. What more do you need to know about this person?
I understand how difficult it is to be a long distance caregiver and we always want the best care possible. It may take a few caregivers until you find the right one. It took us a few times before we found the right person. I felt held hostage by one because she knew I really needed her. I put up with a bit too much until I decided I would replace her even if I had to stay with aunt until I found the right person.

I was only two hours away, visited weekly but I still needed the cameras and every other layer of care I could justify. She had a home health nurse, CNA and physical therapy. The CNA let me know when aunt wasn’t getting the care she should have from one of the early on aids. I would never have noticed this from the camera alone.
If your LO has traditional Medicare she would qualify for a home health evaluation for a needs analysis. She may qualify for this care.

Wishing you luck with finding the best care possible for your LO.
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Hello Jen,

It is not uncommon and if you check your state laws it is legal. I had one caregiver do just the same thing, turn the camera around, changing the direction and such. Others have no problem.

It might be a superstitious thing for them or different beliefs, not certain. That person did not last long. In caregiving not everyone is the same, my mother was being verbally abused and roughly handled at times. This is the reason for the camera, although not able to capture every room it is important to have visibility to ensure your loved one is safe.
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Yes
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With my BIL when he was in his apartment we put Ring cameras in his place because he had dementia and we needed to know what was going on. We liked the Ring cameras because you can talk to the person if need be.

Everyone that came in knew they were on camera and so did my BIL. He had nurses come in and nursing staff that took care of him. Also he had a worker from Dept of Human Services come in twice they didn't say anything about them. They all thought it was a good idea for his sake.

The only place where we didn't have a camera was outside his apartment which would have been a good thing because he fell and laid on the ground for 30 minutes after that he went to a nursing home with memory care.

I would get another agency to come in and help and I would disclose the cameras and tell them they will be there because you all can't be there all the time.

Prayers
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I too had cameras in my Mother's apartment long before I had full time help..for the same reasons as you. Even with the full time help I kept them. The aides all knew it and not one of them ever had a problem with it.
Llike someone said..keep the cameras replace the problem aides. FYI, sometimes they would hold up things for me to see..like a piece of clothing for my opinion on what to wear..even though it never mattered. Also allowed me to see/hear her doctor when she made a house call or the physical therapist if I could not be there or anyone else for that matter. Many good uses for cameras.
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Of course! That agency is delinquent in their service to provide quality care. I would fire the agency and find a new one.
They likely have staffing issues and perhaps do not have enough staff to put someone else in place of the one who is so clearly a problem.
Good luck.
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Caregivers are expensive to hire. Fire that shirtless caregiver and definitely find another agency. And, keep those cameras in the house.
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FedupinCO May 2023
I agree. They are a necessity!
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I have caregivers for my husband 16 hours a week from an agency. I am concerned if something happens to me, my sons may need to hire 24/7 caregivers to keep both of us at home and have been looking at various camera options. I asked the owner of our agency if I am allowed to have cameras turned on when the caregivers are here and he said definitely yes except in the bathrooms... and I think he even said they did not have to be obvious in the other areas.

A friend had them in the bedroom but placed them under the bed for the audio and still be able to monitor the movement on the floor in case the mother fell. I've considered having one on the floor in the walk-in closet in his bathroom for the same reason. I too want my privacy so I would be sure they do not compromise mine either, because I also want the security that cameras give even beyond the caregivers.

I have been checking into them to have them in place like you did well before we need 24/7 care so as not to appear targeting any one person. I have already mentioned the possibility to the two caregivers we have in place and they did not seem to have an issue. I applaud you and feel you don't have any other choice especially if your loved one has no family available to be there with them.

I would not trust any agency that would not automatically fire caregivers with that kind of behavior... especially when you have the video to back your claim. It comes down to elder abuse and I would think it would be easy to find an elder abuse attorney to discuss the seriousness of it... especially if the agency is tolerating it. You are paying more by using an agency to help protect your loved one. Purposely making an elder feel paranoid in their own home is elder abuse in my opinion. I am not one quick to file a lawsuit, but at the least I feel the agency should refund the payments for those days if the behavior is documented and they make no effort to replace with a higher level of caregiver. It is hard enough to deal with caregivers when you are local using them part-time so I applaud you doing everything to keep your loved one safe in their own home.

I often wonder why some folks still commit crimes in public places knowing the cameras are there. If someone would behave this way in a private home knowing there are cameras, I would be very concerned about their character and if they are using drugs.
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They should not have a problem with the cameras. If they do I would be worried about those care givers. Easier said than done but you need a new crew that will be supportive of you.
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Personally I am against cameras. If a person needs such invasive watching..they need to be in facility care. I might use them only IF it was just me watching mom, with her permission, but not to spy on paid help. When you can not trust your help there is a problem. Just my opinion as a retired clinical geriatric staff member of a large facility that had NH, Al and dementia units.…
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ventingisback May 2023
I think cameras are a good idea. It's very, very, very, very, very, very hard to find a totally honest aide (or caregiver agency; sometimes it's the whole agency that's corrupt and they'll defend their thief, incompetent, misbehaving aides.).
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check with state city county law where your mom resides. it could be illegal to have them or illegal for worker to move them either way check the law for video sound surveillance of private residence
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Sarah3 May 2023
There is a right to privacy where cameras and audio are not allowed in areas one would have a “expectation of privacy” but the problem is there’s no authority to oversee the correct and legal placement of cameras in a private residence. A person could say they only have a camera in the kitchen and tv room but secretly they could place one in the caregivers bedroom or bathroom etc. In a facility the placement of cameras is overseen so employees in a facility don’t have to wonder if there’s any in private areas
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Thank you all for your replies! This morning the caregiver is telling my loved one that we are constantly watching her and keeps pointing out the cameras to her (she was told about the cameras when they were put in, but she's 92 and forgets easily). Now my loved one is extremely paranoid. Not fair to do that to a 92 year old. She deserves to live her life in peace, which is what we are trying to give her by helping her remain in her home. Caregiver is now calling other caregivers saying that we are committing elder abuse by having cameras. We are talking to the agency today, but they have been sent the clips of her cursing into the cameras. I was hoping the agency would say that's unacceptable, but instead they just said they need to talk to the caregiver to see what the problem was. In search of a new agency now...
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NeedHelpWithMom May 2023
Good idea! Fire them and start over with another agency. Good luck!
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This caregiver has some serious problems and should be replaced asap.
I used cameras for my parents and now a remaining aunt for safety reasons.

If the agency was aware of the cameras before there should be no issue now.
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I hope you fired that agency ASAP. I'd be very upset about that caregivers behavior. Although not required, put up a few Video cameras in use signs Maybe the yellow smiley face kind.
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