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I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
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This is something you should discuss with an attorney. Not everything can be do-it-yourself, and taking the advice of others on something this important is dangerous. See an attorney and I wish you the best.
As I understand it the beneficiary only gets the home at the time the principle dies. Till then the house is the principles. You are selling it for their care and the proceeds should be used for their care. Medicaid does not enter the picture until the money is gone. As long as all the procceeds from the sale of the house is used for owner, Medicaid should not question it. The Beneficiary is not entitled to anything. It would not hurt to consult with an elder lawyer.
So your cousin deeded you her home in Florida utilizing an Enhanced Life Estate document where the title doesn’t pass to you until she dies. Instead, you as her POA, plan to sell the property for her to pay for her care in the facility she recently moved into.
Should she pass before she has exhausted her funds, the remainder would be distributed as part of her estate.
Should she outlive her funds, then she would file for Medicaid and the house or the funds received from the sale of the house would not be an issue because it was sold and the funds used for her care before she ever needed to file for Medicaid..She will have nothing to shield from Medicaid because her savings will have been spent on her care.
I'm not familiar with the Florida Medicaid application but it might be that you would need to provide copies of the transaction and the disbursement of the funds received for her care to show that she didn’t gift her property before filing for Medicaid. Especially if she has to file within the next five years. So you would of course keep good records and since she is in Florida, find a certified elder attorney in Florida to help guide you.
This will be a lot of work. I hope you find good help to do the majority of it for her. Good luck.
No, as the house still is her asset. Lady Bird only works IF the property is kept till beyond Day of Death. It’s the death that enable the Lady Bird to “activate” as it’s an after death outside of probate type of Title transfer.
Right now, house is 100% still her asset, it’s hopefully still getting a homestead exemption and still in her name. So any selling of it, means 100% of the $ paid to her from the Act of Sale is all hers and is “income” the month of the sale and then an “asset” all months after. If FL has their LTC Medicaid max at $2742 and asset max at 2K, then until she’s back within these $ amounts, she’s ineligible and has to do a spend down. And as all real estate transactions are recorded at the courthouse, then dovetail to State databases, it can be just a couple of keystrokes for caseworker to ferret this out and in detail.
I’m mentioning this as often there will be costs to placing a house on the market and the POA or other family members end up paying for new painting / repairs / freshening up landscaping etc, perhaps paying HOA dues or asse$$ments. And family have the expectation that they are going to get repaid from Act of Sale $. HOWEVER Medicaid tends to take the view that whatever we do or spend on our elders or on their property is done out of a sense of familial responsibility with no expectation of reimbursement. And as the $ is moms, should any of it paid to you it’s likely to be viewed as “gifting” and becomes a transfer penalty as gifting not allowed by LTC Medicaid. Ideally to deal with this issue, there would be a Agreement drawn up with witnesses and notarized that expenses reimbursed before $ ever spent OR if you have a business entity you place a workmans lien on the property as they have to get paid to get a clear Title.
Medicaid can be a real stickler on stuff like this. Like if you have the receipts and reimbursed to the penny, it might pass caseworker muster. But maybe not and a transfer penalty placed. No good deed goes unpunished (lol)!
FWIW doing Lady Bird Deed, or doing a Testamentary Trust or other type of Trust, or putting property in Life Estate, or filing for caregiver or other exemptions….. all seem to be easy peasy workarounds to get through the required attempt of Estate Recovery by LTC Medicaid program. BUT in order to make it work, there has to - HAS TO - be someone who can pay all property costs till beyond the owners death as the now-in-a-NH-and-on Medicaid owner has zero $ to pay property costs due to LTC Medicaid copay Share of Cost requirements. If the potential future heirs themselves don’t have the $ to pay costs on the property (that they still do not own) and pay for sure for an unknown period of time (which could be years), then doing a Lady Bird.. Trust.. etc was a waste of legal paid and waste of time. You have to be all in to be able to pay whatever really needed without fail whether it’s 5 months or 5 years to make it work.
I'm mentioning all this because if you kinda are needing repayment for various condo costs, so may want to think about which costs can be paid out of the Act of Sale $. Like HOA assessments if not paid becomes a lien and will get pulled out of the Act of Sale $, although I’d suggest to let HOA board know so they aren’t pissy. You probably can do the same on unpaid property taxes although you have to be careful not to let prop tax delinquency get to the redemption stage.
Also Medicaid will want prop sold at FMV, which tends to be the value placed by latest tax assessor bill. And so no special deal to friends or family. Medicaid wants to ensure it’s an “arm’s length” sale.
As 97yroldmom aptly wrote, “this will be a lot of work”. Stay organized; keep any receipts and all paperwork! Good luck!
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Not everything can be do-it-yourself, and taking the advice of others on something this important is dangerous.
See an attorney and I wish you the best.
Instead, you as her POA, plan to sell the property for her to pay for her care in the facility she recently moved into.
Should she pass before she has exhausted her funds, the remainder would be distributed as part of her estate.
Should she outlive her funds, then she would file for Medicaid and the house or the funds received from the sale of the house would not be an issue because it was sold and the funds used for her care before she ever needed to file for Medicaid..She will have nothing to shield from Medicaid because her savings will have been spent on her care.
I'm not familiar with the Florida Medicaid application but it might be that you would need to provide copies of the transaction and the disbursement of the funds received for her care to show that she didn’t gift her property before filing for Medicaid. Especially if she has to file within the next five years. So you would of course keep good records and since she is in Florida, find a certified elder attorney in Florida to help guide you.
This will be a lot of work. I hope you find good help to do the majority of it for her. Good luck.
Right now, house is 100% still her asset, it’s hopefully still getting a homestead exemption and still in her name. So any selling of it, means 100% of the $ paid to her from the Act of Sale is all hers and is “income” the month of the sale and then an “asset” all months after. If FL has their LTC Medicaid max at $2742 and asset max at 2K, then until she’s back within these $ amounts, she’s ineligible and has to do a spend down. And as all real estate transactions are recorded at the courthouse, then dovetail to State databases, it can be just a couple of keystrokes for caseworker to ferret this out and in detail.
I’m mentioning this as often there will be costs to placing a house on the market and the POA or other family members end up paying for new painting / repairs / freshening up landscaping etc, perhaps paying HOA dues or asse$$ments. And family have the expectation that they are going to get repaid from Act of Sale $. HOWEVER Medicaid tends to take the view that whatever we do or spend on our elders or on their property is done out of a sense of familial responsibility with no expectation of reimbursement. And as the $ is moms, should any of it paid to you it’s likely to be viewed as “gifting” and becomes a transfer penalty as gifting not allowed by LTC Medicaid. Ideally to deal with this issue, there would be a Agreement drawn up with witnesses and notarized that expenses reimbursed before $ ever spent OR if you have a business entity you place a workmans lien on the property as they have to get paid to get a clear Title.
Medicaid can be a real stickler on stuff like this. Like if you have the receipts and reimbursed to the penny, it might pass caseworker muster. But maybe not and a transfer penalty placed. No good deed goes unpunished (lol)!
FWIW doing Lady Bird Deed, or doing a Testamentary Trust or other type of Trust, or putting property in Life Estate, or filing for caregiver or other exemptions….. all seem to be easy peasy workarounds to get through the required attempt of Estate Recovery by LTC Medicaid program. BUT in order to make it work, there has to - HAS TO - be someone who can pay all property costs till beyond the owners death as the now-in-a-NH-and-on Medicaid owner has zero $ to pay property costs due to LTC Medicaid copay Share of Cost requirements. If the potential future heirs themselves don’t have the $ to pay costs on the property (that they still do not own) and pay for sure for an unknown period of time (which could be years), then doing a Lady Bird.. Trust.. etc was a waste of legal paid and waste of time. You have to be all in to be able to pay whatever really needed without fail whether it’s 5 months or 5 years to make it work.
I'm mentioning all this because if you kinda are needing repayment for various condo costs, so may want to think about which costs can be paid out of the Act of Sale $. Like HOA assessments if not paid becomes a lien and will get pulled out of the Act of Sale $, although I’d suggest to let HOA board know so they aren’t pissy. You probably can do the same on unpaid property taxes although you have to be careful not to let prop tax delinquency get to the redemption stage.
Also Medicaid will want prop sold at FMV, which tends to be the value placed by latest tax assessor bill. And so no special deal to friends or family. Medicaid wants to ensure it’s an “arm’s length” sale.
As 97yroldmom aptly wrote, “this will be a lot of work”. Stay organized; keep any receipts and all paperwork! Good luck!