I have a mother who is 69 and able bodied, very healthy and was planning to work full time at least until her mid seventies. During Covid she lost her job and decided to go ahead and retire. We own the house she lives in and charge her way under market value. Even at what we charge her, it is still a stretch for her on a fixed income. We have decided to sell the home since we are moving. She is very upset, understandably. She could go back to work and afford to possibly buy the house herself. But she refuses to work, other than a few hours a week for a neighbor she helps with Alzheimer’s. Her family pays her cash. She is very healthy and now even helps aging neighbors who actually need it.
She is very upset with me and calling me ‘selfish’ because I am ‘kicking her out’ of her home. I have given her more than a year warning, this is not something imminent, giving her plenty of time to find other arrangements, decide if she wants to work or not etc.. We bought this home when my now deceased step father was terminally ill to move them closer to us so I could take care of him and she could continue to work. He was self employed most of his life and didn’t manage for his retirement very well, so there is little to no savings. She has gone through quite a bit of what she has just to stay in the home we own.
She wants to make absolutely no concessions in her lifestyle. We considered having her move in with us, but I don’t think that would be good for any of us. It would just be enabling her and pre-aging her and legitimizing her ‘old’ mindset and view of herself.
I have been her enabler, ‘rock’ and co-dependent for years. I have been doing a lot of healing, therapy and inner work and realizing this is not a healthy dynamic for either of us. She is not going to go willingly though, in fact kicking and screaming almost childlike. She seems to feel entitled to be treated like one of my actual children.
She has worked herself into a negative spiral of emotions and I think might be depressed now, but refusing to speak to anyone or go to any counseling. I have offered to help pay etc… Feeling conflicted, the people pleaser in me just wants to give in just to make peace again and or back track on my word. My sisters are both supportive and happy that I have finally taken a stand and asked our mom to be more independent and not rely on me so much. They feel she has manipulated me for years.
In just a few short weeks of conversations I have gone from being her ‘rock’ to self centered and uncaring in her eyes. I am very sad and worried, hoping we can get past this. At times I am believing her thoughts about me and doubting myself…
Any advice welcomed…
But in reality change is always good and is a constant in all of our lives, whether we like it or not.
So keep on with your plans of selling the house and DO NOT under any circumstances allow her to move in with you. You will certainly live to regret it if you do.
Your mom will be just fine once she gets used to the new changes in her life, so continue to stand your ground.
You're selling the house no matter what, so she can
1. Sign a lease at market rent that the new owner will have to honor (and she will, too), so she can stay in the house until the lease runs out, or
2. Move
It's always helpful to give people choices, so they feel more in control of their destiny.
(It also works with toddlers and keeps their tantrums to a minimum, too!😉)
What was her job?
So, if you charge her, then you are responsible for the taxes and upkeep? Right there is a good reason to sell, her rent is not covering your out of pocket. Your actually supporting her. Mom has to realize that it won't be long that you will be looking at retirement and Medicare. As middle aged people, you need to seriously look at your retirement. You need to put away as much as possible because of inflation.
I just ran into a friend whose Mom is going to be 90. She just stopped working and hates it.
The problem here may be is there is a written rental agreement. She did tell Mom a year ago she needed to find a place to live. Its one thing if the person is buying the property as a rental, then yes they have to honor the lease in place. But if buying to live in it? maybe a different scenario. I would not buy a home with a renter in it. There is no guarantee the renter will move out when the lease is up.
Maybe that is what OP will need to do, give Mom written notice that the house is being sold and she has a certain number of days to vacate. A house will sell better when no one is living there. If no lease, its usually 30 day notice, I think.
Also try to appeal to mom's helper side. Section 202 housing is full of a lot of ppl who can use a hand up. my mom dcid respite care during her pre-retirement life, and continued doing that sort of thing for neighbors into independent living housing. She would cook for ppl who were having serious health issues and had no close family that assisted, she'd keep an eye on people (she directly saved at least two people's lives), etc.
She might also be expecting back what she gives out. Shje needs "help" now and you're not giving it in her eyes which would make you seem uncaring. But she might not realize what she's currently asking is too much for your family to bear.
These situations are usually kind of rough. Good luck.
She's a senior brat and is really acting like one. As I see it, she has two choices:
1) Go back to work and buy the house herself (which would probably be a mistake at her age).
Or
2) Don't go back to work and move to a nice, affordable senior condo community. Enjoy retirement in good health. Maybe work a few easy care gigs paying in cash and take up a hobby with the money earned. Or join a 'silver' senior travel group. Go to Paris. Eat nice food. Drink good wine. Enjoy beautiful artwork.
Your mother is 69 years old, very healthy, and is retired.
The world is her oyster. She should be enjoying it, instead of spiting you with her co-dependent and gaslighting nonsense.
Her problems are not your responsibility. She is the cause of them, not you. At some point she is going to have to find a new place to live. Don't let it be with you. DO NOT move her in with you because you'll regret it.
Just curious - where are you moving? Locally or far away?
I agree with others that if mom has limited resources, she should go into government assisted over 55 housing. My MIL was in such an apartment and her only income was her meager SS check so she only paid $200/month in rent cuz that was literally all she could afford.
Not sure why you're waiting a year to put the house on the market? I'd pull the band-aid off and get her move sooner rather than later. Do some leg work and look at a couple of the apartments that could be feasible for her, take her to look at the top 2 and get her on the waiting list.
Good luck.
You're calling your mother 'entitled' when she's now being expected to find a place to live AND a job to support some inflated rental price that she cannot afford. You're basically telling her she's on her own now, irritated that she's refused 'counseling' when, in reality, what is a counselor going to tell her? Go out and get a job? Or find HUD housing? Or do meditative breathing for an hour a day to calm down the fears you have at 69 years old that your life has been thrown a curve ball you have no idea how to overcome??? Of course she's depressed.......she has no idea what her default future looks like!
That's not to say you should move her in with you, or that you shouldn't move, just that you should see HER point of view and where she's at emotionally and realistically, so you can help her with this dilemma she's in.
Help your mother find suitable housing she can afford now, on her current income w/o having to find a job. Or, if she MUST find a job to stay afloat, help her find an at home desk job she can do while staying seated, where her age won't come into play. Help her get set up in said housing and/or a job before you move so that you know she's okay & not about to become homeless one day soon.
You are entitled to live the life you envision for yourself, and your mother is entitled to live a life she envisions for herself. Not one of 'luxury' and 'entitlement' where she sits on the sofa eating bon-bon's all day long, but one where she's not working until she's 80 years old just to pay rent & put food on the table. That's reasonable on BOTH of your parts. Sit down together and figure out how you can accomplish your goals and keep your relationship intact, without her calling you 'self-centered & uncaring' and you calling her 'entitled'. You can do it b/c there's love at the core of that relationship.
Best of luck.
First, are you certain she is as healthy as you believe that she is such that working is truly realistic? Some people don't always tell their family everything and they are not obligated to disclose. Along that line, would you want her to be looking at re-joining her previous profession, and is it a physical job (i.e. bedside nursing, cleaning/maintenance, etc).
Second, I'd like to underscore what others mentioned about looking for work as an older person. I recently saw the resume online of someone from my past. She's got to be 80-ish years old and actively looking for work. She married DH #1 when she was practically a child herself and stayed home to raise the family. She was desperately unhappy if not also somewhat traumatized by her life with him. She went straight to DH #2 who lavished her with the care and understanding she had never had before. She didn't work during the 2nd marriage either, but I'd hesitate to call her entitled exactly... more like she was recovering from DH#1. She's on her own now... no money of her own, little to no SS, etc due to practically no work history. I hope someone is in her circle to at least bounce ideas around. I know that if someone would have told her younger self how, in the future, she'd end up a senior citizen looking for work and trying to survive... she would not have believed it.
You say about the 80-year old that she's on her own now.
If hubby #2 has died then his widow is collecting his full social security. Obviously it will be higher than hers. She collects his pension (if he had one) and is also covered by Medicare and whatever the secondary insurance was that her husband paid for since she was 65.
Did your friend and her husband survive on his retirement income together? My guess is they did. So if it was enough for both, it's enough for one.
If there was no need for her to even work during her marriage to husband #2, she has enough money now.
Do you know how social security works? Even if you're divorced from your spouse you collect their social security if you were married to them for at least ten years and they did not remarry and stay married for somone else for longer.
For example, I would be eligible to collect my first husband's social security when I turn 65 if I needed to. I don't because I was married to my second husband for longer and his will be a lot more. Even if we don't remarry I will be entitled to his so long as he doesn't remarry and even then he'd have to be married for longer than he was to me.
Seniors wanting to earn pin money so they can enjoy some quality of life is not the same thing as having to earn money otherwise you will be homeless in the street.
Big difference between the two.
1) Give her legal notice to leave the house on a particular date. It’s necessary, you can’t just evict her without the correct legal steps.
2) Arrange to take a real estate agent through the house, and make any pre-sale suggestions.
3) Go through the house and make a list of the furniture that belongs to you. Decide what you are going to do with it when the house goes up for sale. Take it with you, sell it, give it to her, what?
4) Wherever she goes, it will be smaller, possibly only one room. What furniture can she take, and what will happen to the rest of it? What else will she need?
5) See if you can find out her income. Has she claimed all pensions etc that she is entitled to? How much rent can she afford? The usual rule of thumb is that rent shouldn’t be more than a third of income.
6) Talk it through with your supportive sisters. Ask one of them to come with you when you go to the house. You need support, then and there.
7) Forget about the job. Particularly with her attitude, she’s not going to get one.
8) If none of this works, rent her a small unit and take the necessary furniture to it. It won't be 'good enough', but she can look around for better herself.
9) Remove the bed and table from the house. It’s hard to stay without them.
10) Change the locks if necessary.
With any luck, you won’t need to go down the full list. The first 3 steps should do it. She will be furious, and you will be very upset. If you can think of a better approach, go for it! Otherwise, hope for the best in about a year’s time.
This has been yet another case where ‘no good deed goes unpunished’.
I can understand though that fear, fear of change, fear of the future can hold people back. Sort of a denial I suppose.
Older single females are the fastest growing demographic at risk of home insecurity where I live. It is a serious matter & can bring on anxiety, depression & other negative health effects.
Are there Aging Advice Services in your area? Somewhere to start off to find more specific housing/financial advice?
Sitting down with an licenced Social Worker, experienced in elder issues, or a Counsellor trained in life stages could help your Mom imho. Having a professional to run through what her options are. Not want she wants so much, but what are realistic options. This gives her the dignity to choose the best option for herself.
She may not like any of her initial options! Eg move, downsize. But like many women I have talked to, once they fix on a plan, they start to look forward with more positivity. This start the process of adjustment.
Personally I have discussed issues with a councellor for women before & definately would again. I found it very useful. I hope your Mother can become open to new ideas too. The future can be scary - but also can be wonderful. (Especially with a smaller place to manage).
Try again to help her seek real work for some real income, even at minimum wage. What kind of a job did she work with and how long with the employer? If she decides to seek work, she can apply for unemployment insurance but may no longer receive special pandemic payments along with regular UI.
Unfortunately, age discrimination does exist when applying for jobs. For example, an employer will say to apply for work if less than 4 years experience in that field, such as clerical. I have even seen that interested applicants must live in a certain zip code area for a recycling job!
What about modified warehouse or store processing work, such as at a Goodwill for donations?? They are now rehiring with Covid modifications, including wearing masks with social distancing. It can be tasks with tagging, hanging items or hanger assembly where your Mom can even be seated to work. However, it requires that the employee be at work around 7 a.m. Could your mom get up that early on cold mornings to commute to the employer?
What about some remote work for some income to supplement her retirement benefits? Yes, she should try for some income to save maybe for a year or two. Save for some fun!!
Please. The woman is 69 years old. No one should still have to work at that age.
The OP's mother has some form of income. Either it's social security, a pension, whatever. Medicare too. If she's low enough income she won't even have to pay for a secondary insurance because Medicaid will cover that. She's over 65. There are resources out there for seniors 'on a fixed income'. People never hear the end of that complaint. So the OP or someone else can help her find a senior apartment where the rent is based on income. Look for listings online.
Working a job is supposed to be a choice for an old person not a necessity.
Can you find a little grace in your heart to understand why all of this might be overwhelming for her? Do you have to sell the home she resides in? If so, can you help your mom find a senior apartment or something of that nature before you move away? Then maybe she can create a network of friends so that she has some healthy socialization and someone she could call if she needs assistance. It doesn't sound like you or your sisters are wanting to be that "someone" for her.
There are obviously issues between you and your mom, so moving her in with you is a no go. I don't know exactly what you have been enabling all of these years, but your mom is reaching an age where she is going to need some assistance. At the very minimum, if you can find it in your heart, I suggest you help her find a great place to live and help her move.
Regarding the house situation. These past 3yrs have been very difficult on everyone, and even more so the older one is. Returning to work at her age needs to be something she decides. Sounds like she is discovering that she really enjoys helping others, even though she gets some cash compensation. Finding purpose after retiring, in her case forced retirement, can be a difficult transition. Finding alternate living accommodations can be extremely challenging, in my region of the world, it’s almost impossible for a single senior to find affordable unit. Buildings that specialize in senior rentals have 6+yr waiting list. I would implore you to assist your mother with finding alternate housing, and not just giving her 1yr notice.
Does your mom have 401 money? What income does she have ? My mom didn’t have a lot of income . Certainly not enough to pay rent and live on her own. When I attempted moving her near me, I found low income housing for seniors thru the county. Ultimately she refused to move. Back to your moms savings … I would research a place for her, have her use her retirement monies, if she has some, or help her find low income housing. Your mom may be at a loss of what to do.
all of this , not knowing her future, or what to do is so stressful, Im sure … which equals the rebellion and anger your getting.
I wish you luck with trying to help her make changes. My mom was very stubborn and did what was comfortable for her, not what she needed to do.
You've been very generous in providing your mother and stepfather with a home to live in at below market rents. But as you stated, your mother is stretched financially to live at below market rent. What were your plans and intentions when you moved your stepfather and mother in? What was your mother's understanding when they moved in? Did you provide any kind of termination agreement or expectations? Your mother may have thought that she had the house for the rest of her life.
While your mother may seem healthy at 69, I'm younger than your mother and I'm seeing friends drop. I am amazed at how many people from my high school class have died and I am amazed at how many of my college buddies have serious or terminal illnesses. Once the body hits the 60s, it declines rapidly. There is a reason why age 65 is considered the retirement age. People are now starting to work until 70 because medical advances have given us opportunity, but not many people are working after 70 unless they have to. Furthermore, finding a job at age 69, is very, very difficult. I know this for a fact. I lost my career as a corporate director because I was forced to take care of my parents and sister with autism. I got back out into the working world in my late 50s and I have not been able to find a job that gives me even a quarter of the responsibility or the quarter of the pay.
Your mother has a very tough road ahead of her and a very scary one. She is fortunate to have a daughter who has looked out for her and given her the opportunity to live in a decent place at a decent rent. She still needs her daughter and her other daughters as she transitions into a new life. This is the time to hold her hand and help her move forward. Help her find a new home and help her find a job. She is clearly overwhelmed by the prospect in front of her, It is obvious you love your mother and you are torn between your own family's needs and your mother's needs. Giving her a deadline is not going to work. Give her the help she needs, and both of you will find much greater peace.
Is this a home she can age in place? Is everything on one level? Can it be navigated with a walker of wheelchair?
I’m not trying to imply that you’re made of money, but you may be better off finding/buying mom a different place to live. 55+ condos are popular in my area. No yardwork, no stairs, frequently an elevator and they are cheaper than a house.
But, there’s often no pets or smoking allowed. Not sure if that’s an issue.
I have the same thing in my area. The going rate for non medical dementia companions, errand runners is $25+ an hour, cash. Truly, I’d love to stumble into a gig like that.
I’m not sure what the housing market is like in your area. If your Mom can maintain the house and yard physically, it might be in your best interest to charge her just enough to cover mortgage, property taxes, insurance and just $100-200 more to cover maintenance. I know, I know, it is below market value, but it might give her 18-24 months to decide her next move.
Sigh…..and then it might just enable her to stay where she is and deny that she is a drain on you. Be prepared for the “I raised you for 18 years and took care of all your wants and needs - now you can do the same for me” discussion.
Your mother is NOT being unreasonable. She should get more money when she turns 70 from Soc. Sec. If it is your intention to raise her rent, then wait a little while. It is CRUEL to do this to your mom right now. You wait until she is down to threaten her with becoming homeless.
Put yourself in her place. What if your husband died and you lost your job. I bet your mom would do everything she could to help.
to have your mom move in. There is an expectation of constancy and the idea that the daughter should sacrifice her needs on the alter of her mother’s whims and that she should not do what she wants to do.
By today’s standards the mom is not old. She is still young enough to work, she can get herself a part time job. She is in good health apparently. She is not an octogenarian which would be a different story.
Mom should figure it out and let her daughter live her life.
Hope you find a peaceful solution ASAP that will be satisfactory for both you and your mother.
While there are opportunities for affordable housing, those opportunities are limited and often applicants have to wait a long time before being placed. It's a good idea to look into them and apply for them, but it may be a while and the OP sounds as if she is seeking a quick solution (although it's a good idea to apply for all affordable housing).