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My mom is in her late 70s, has issues with dementia (though not formally diagnosed) because she is stubborn and cheap. She has signs of Narcissistic Personality Disorder and is extremely resentful of any family. She's recently told me not to be in contact with her. (I'm letting her be for a while.) But, I swear sometimes it's like I'm dealing with a very helpless and wildly imaginative (and not always in a good way) 5-year-old and other times it's like I'm dealing with a very angry, spiteful, paranoid old woman. It's very rare to have a day where it's just "mom."

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First the confusion. Then the anger. Later you will see delusional behavior. Get her some meds before she is totally out of control. Save your own sanity by staying away, that is a good move. It sounds cruel, but if she won't get off a sinking boat, you have to row away from her.
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My mom was on some pills but quit them. (She tends to quit on a lot of things and people. If she's not happy she ends a relationship or moves, except now that she's older, it's not so easy to move.) I try to help her but when she gets super hostile I stay away. I can't reason with her, no matter how much I want to. I figure she'll call when she wants something. Usually when she runs out of cigarettes she calls, all in crisis mode.
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Been there, done that with mil. My husband tried to help, only to be threatened with a call to authorities for "elder abuse"--he told her that because of her copd, she should quit smoking. Heidi, it's very sad and frustrating, but some folks don't have the ability to trust, even their own kids. Do you have any siblings or cousins? Sometimes the best idea, as you say, is to stay away until she calls. This is a rough road you're walking down, know that you can only help her as much as she'll allow. Hang out here, it's a good place.
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Heidi, since your mother has tried pills, I'm assuming she has seen a doctor. If she won't go to a doctor for more help, sadly you may have to wait until something really bizarre happens and then perhaps Adult Protective Services would get involved. You could try calling them now, but depending on where you live, you may or may not get anywhere.

I agree that sometimes the adult child (or children) must step back and wait. It sounds cruel and is very hard to do, but until a person is officially diagnosed with a cognitive disorder, there's rarely anything that can legally be done.

Perhaps if you stay away for awhile, she will come around and realize - at least for a time - that she needs your help. We can hope that she does and the time frame is long enough to get her into a doctor.

If there's a true emergency, taking her to the emergency room may be a foot in the door to getting her help.

Take care of yourself and please let us know how you are doing.
Carol
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Here's what "rowing her away" from her "sinking boat" looked like for us - my MIL tends to be very violently hostile toward caregivers, so much so that after she threw us out of her house after we had become her caregivers, we had to call 911 out of fear for her own safety. Thanks to the police and ambulance crew, she agreed to go to the hospital. That was back in the spring. She hasn't returned home since and probably will not. We are pursuing guardianship at this point which should finalize soon.

It is as if her personality "unmixed" and we tend to see a different face of her each day. Some days she's extremely sad and depressed. Some days she's quiet. Some days she's chatty and joking. At this point, though, because we're not her full time caregivers anymore because she's in a facility, we're not the target of her hostility.
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Heidi73--is this all new behavior or was she always unpredictable in her moods (and venom)? My mother seems like two different people, depending on the day but that is not really new. Things have changed somewhat and depression hits her harder, so I expect meanness when that comes, but I never know day to day if she will be warm and loving or nasty and depressed. Leaves me on a perpetual roller coaster.
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My father is not quite that bad, but there are times when we're in a conversation and if I disagree with him he gets a little out of sorts. I know the signal and at that point I remain quiet and he seems to talk it out with himself and calms down. That may not work for everyone, but, that works for me most times.
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My MIL was never easy to deal with. But now that I am her full time caregiver and she lives with me.....................she is really tough. Here's the thing: I KNOW that she KNOWS that she is hurting me. Yes, her Alzheimers is pretty much late stage but she is still manipulative. Sweet as pie to any and all people who stop by. But when we are alone her persona toward me is well.......not nice. I've spent tons of hours reading up on dementia. But I hardly find anything that addresses this problem. She is Dr. Jeckyl and Mr Hyde. Anyone else have this problem?
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DeeDesign--I also found that getting quiet works wonders --sort of takes the air out of her mean balloon streak!
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We had the Jeckyl/Hyde with my MIL. She loved my BIL. She tore into her son and didn't realize my BIL had come in he door as well. Her attitude did a complete 180° when she saw my BIL. Turns out once he stood back and thought about it, her son remembered she had a mean side when he was a child. It is very sad that she saved her venom for the one son taking care of her and saved all the sweetness for others, in recent years. Yes!! Jeckyl/ Hyde happens!!!
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There are times when my husband who is 90 says something sarcastic, like "What are we doing all of this for? Are we going to see the Pope?" We are not even Catholic! This in a mean way while complaining during a clean up.. If I respond with an angry remark he explodes and then, remarkably, he becomes docile and sweet which he usually is.

The angry explosion is a release for him, I think, and he needs it to put up with his increasing disability - can't walk even with a walker nor feed himself now. He has lost feeling and control of arm, hand and leg muscles..

VNA with PT begins sometime tomorrow... derned week-end interferred with action.. Wish us luck!
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My mother is 92 and living in a long term facility. She has very advanced Alzheimers/Dementia although she has still not been fully diagnosed or even tested despite our many requests to have a full work up done. I can totally relate to these stories that have been shared. My mother is also Dr. Jeckle, and Mr. Hyde. It turns on and off like a switch. As a result of her violence when she gets hostile we can not care for her 24/7 as she has hit all of us. Last time we tried to care for her 24/7, she threw us out of the house, which left her with no care until the ambulance came as we called 911 in order to get her some help. We visit my mother every day at the care center, and she is so happy to see us, and is never hostile toward us in this new living arrangement as we are not her care givers now, but instead her visitors and family. So we are now kind of her heros, when we come. She is also very depressed at times, yet her personality dose swing and it almost seems as though she has multiple personalities. I wish there were a cure for this or at least a better way to manage it. It sounds like many in a similar condition as my mother are suffering as they have a fragile brain, which means they need our love and support and compassion all the more. Sadly their behaviors that are out of control set themselves up for retaliation that could be abusive. We check my mother for bruises regularly as nursing homes dont always to the right thing. We have even called the Ombudsman and they have helped us alot. As others have said, we also are on an emotional roller coaster, and we are often exhausted while trying to care for, and about my dear mother. I think we all need to pray for a miracle. This is a disastrous way to end life!
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I sincerely hope that if she gets transported to ER/hospital for treatment/diagnosis, that they actually DO a psych eval.
With my mom, they didn't really do it. So mom's sliding thru life without a diagnosis except for catastrophic ills, which means no treatment for her mental ills. Which makes caregiving that much more "interesting"...and potentially dangerous.
Be concise and specific on descriptions you give the professionals who do an intake for her. It seems these days, too many Docs need the symptoms served up on a platter for them to find.
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Thank you all for sharing your observations. Although I don't have anything to offer in the form of a solution, it really helps to know at least that I am not the only person experiencing this strange phenomenon. My mom had always been a very passive aggressive person in an extremely clever and almost undetectable way. No one ever blamed her because she put up with an often demanding and unreasonable husband. I guess it became her way of coping with the marriage she was in. This was before it became acceptable to devorce and be a single mother. Having to live under that constant pressure caused her to split in some ways into a compliant subservient person AND a more outgoing and stuborn person when dad wasn't around. Now that she is elderly and infirm, these two sides of the coin are becoming more and more obvious to us. At times it is quite surprising. I thing this is because now the stakes are so high that she feels the most internal pressure and is struggling to function in this new reality.
Thank you all for sharing your experiences. It really helps to understand that mom is not the only one displaying this confusing behavior.
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I agree. It helps to know you are not alone.
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Good days, bad days. Good moments, bad moments. Its all a question of how much of a short circuit is in that brain at any given moment.
Internet YouTube Channel: Senior Helpers National - Anything by Teepa Snow. She has truly excellent seminars and I have found them incredibly valuable.
You can also Google Jo Huey and the 10 absolutes. This not only works with Dementia but any elderly narcissist.
Don't argue - it only escalates the contradiction.
Don't try to reason with them - they don't have any reason.
Do divert - diversion, diversion, diversion is the key. If you encounter resistance change the subject & try again later. You may eventually get through but you may not. We do the best we can but at the end of the day we may not have accomplished anything. Take deep cleansing breathes & walk away temporarily when we have to.
They are regressing. Meds may help but it will get worse and not better. This is not a battle we can win but we do what we can when we can to ease the transition into oblivion. Understand that they are as scared as we are. They will lash out at those closest to them, hopefully just verbally. That is what we do when we are afraid and see no remedy. It is a primal response and they are becoming primal creatures.
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My mother doesn't have dementia. Her personality would confuse any doctor (and has). She's very much like two people and you never know who she's going to be. This makes trying to do your 'care giving' very much more difficult. And, (in my opinion) in their older age, it's too late to change... medication isn't always the answer, especially when they won't take it... Some elderly (as many of you know) will always be difficult to be around let alone try to 'manage' (of course, while this takes a toll on you... the caregiver).
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I'm so sorry you are going through this. My mom has some "hateful" times. I can NOT reason with her after 5 p.m. It's called sundowners. It's obvious that she doesn't know what is true and what isn't then. I dare not disagree with her either!
She is in a retirement home that has a lot of assistance, so I can avoid being there in the evening. She can do her complaining to her dog. :-). I wish the best
For you and your mom.
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Sorry, you said it was your dad. Advice probably the same.
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Thanks, everyone. My mom has been this way for a few years. She's been on pills for dementia and quit them. She's on antidepressants now and stays on them because they're affordable in generic form. When she had a couple issues in hospitals they did psych evals on her an didn't think she was too bad. (And this was after she accused them of trying to poison her and of nurses performing voodoo -- fortunately she recovered from that psychotic episode). I've called area agencies on aging and get referred to someone else, and so on. So far it's been very little luck. Just today she called me, sounded more civilized, and then said she realized I was so nasty because I clearly have marital troubles at home. (I don't.) I cut the call short, but didn't argue, just spoke for a couple more minutes on another topic and then said I had a lot of work to do and wished her a nice day.) I think it's just a case of waiting. No one seems to think she's bad enough to get help nudged her way, and she won't reveal her paranoia to doctors. She'll tell me her neighbor is a prostitute (nope), doctors were laughing at her (nope), nurses were doing voodoo (nope) or another neighbor was calling to her through the ductwork (um, nope), but at the doctor's, she is aware enough not to reveal these problems. I even tell the doctor about it on the side, but questioning yields nothing. She wants to be in her own world in her own apartment.
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I think that 'what works' varies greatly from person to person. MIL would get angrier and angrier when I did not get upset. I could wish her to have a good time at Silver Sneakers and she turned that around to others about how cruel I was. So I was told by SIL. I wish I knew about the YouTube & who to Google long ago. Maybe it would have helped me cope. I am grateful for the people here!
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Heidi73; If the doctors won't acknowledge and she refuses to see a different doctor then their isn't much we can do. I've asked for psych evals for years and gotten nowhere. Eventually in tears I asked for antipsychotic meds from the doc and he put mom on Aricept. By that point she was so far gone she was unaware of the meds she was on & did not refuse them. Sometimes we can only wait & pray God has mercy on us. I am grateful he did with me & hope he has mercy on you soon also. If it is any consolation - I have placed my mom in a wonderful AL now & not only is she nice to others but also myself. Environment makes a huge difference & I hope you are blessed with a good one for your mother; to improve your relationship with her and give peace to both of you.
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I'm so grateful for everyone's stories and advice. My MIL is the same way. I can pretty much tell what she's going to be like when I get her up in the morning. The different personalities is the most difficult thing for me to deal with. It's also hard to accept that she is so self-centered and could care less how she affects everyone around her. It's also very hard when everyone else who meets her for the first time or deals with her on a short time basis tells us how she's the sweetest lady they've ever met! Makes us feel like crap when we talk about how she acts with us. We wonder if it's all in our imagination! A therapist at the rehab facility told us yesterday that her mother said that when they are 95 they've earned the right to treat their kids however they want. My mil certainly subscribes to this line of thought. I certainly do not. I would never subject my children to what we are going through. It scares me to death thinking I could be like her with them.

I do agree that the Teepa Snow videos on Youtube are very helpful. I just want to add that what she teaches makes so much sense but is hard to keep doing for any period of time. Sort of like a diet. When you get really aggravated (and you will) and forget her guidelines (bound to happen), just pick back up where you left off after you've cooled down. My husband can't seem to stop trying to reason with my mil even though we know she just doesn't get it or want to get it. He sounds like a parent trying to reason with a two year old and over explaining.I know he lost her after the first sentence. He'll come to me afterwards and say "Yeah I know I just wasted my time but I couldn't help myself". Sigh...Having an autistic child prepared me for this to some extant but it doesn't make it any easier.
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Booschmoop, your husband's reactions sound a lot like my own to my mom. I end up trying to reason with her and then I tell my husband, "for some reason it becomes a debate and I feel like I have to make her understand." All I'm doing is wasting my breath and trying my patience, and yet the urge persists. And it gets stronger the more unreasonable she becomes.
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I'm dealing with same and it's difficult. Some days good some days bad. You are doing right thing by backing off and letting her cool down and settle down. My mom always gets better after the break. We have to protect ourselves --mentally in order to be patient and be our best with these loved ones. I honestly have to gear myself up for a phone call or visit and these often drain me and I need time to recover.

I just had incident yesterday where mom called panicking about a burglary where her purse was stolen and checkbook raided. I steeled myself to be calm and patient and tried to walk her thru looking in the house. She was very angry and accusing me of burglarizing home even though I live in another state. I understood how frightening it was to lose her purse --aren't we all?! But she couldn't be reasoned with. I was certain from our conversation that it was just misplaced. She ended up calling police and reporting burglary. She did not call me back and isn't answering my calls today....punishment for not driving 6 hrs or being there "as a good daughter should".

Don't take it personally. Do what you can, when she gets crazy, calmly hang up or leave and tell them you love them and will see them later.

Our incidents are always forgotten and I used to hold the hurts, but just let them go now. She's my mom, I love her, but I won't let her destroy me or ruin my happiness, spoil the good things I have going. I deserve happiness. You do to.

PS they always treat those closest to them the worst --we're their punching bag for all their fear, loss of control, and ailments as they age. Everyday, I tell my husband to please put me in facility when I get old and mean. I never want my children to go thru what I deal with. I pray to be a nice, loving, kind, pliable , happy elder.
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Heidi, I know how you feel. My husband remembers his reasonable mother who was a teacher and can't seem to stop himself. I don't have those memories of her so it's easier for me to just nod my head and go with the flow. She takes reasoning from me better than him though. The closer they are to you the more they seem to push back. I know how hard it must be for you.
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I took my mom to see my niece get married 3 states away. I recently had that experience with my mom in the afternoon & alone in the hotel room. She became the rude, unreasonable person that remember as a child. This bought up memories that had been long packed away. I'm blessed with friends that were available via social media that let me vent through the 'dark hours'. We will keep her in long term care, I know now that even if it was an option, I will not/cannot be her 24 hr caregiver.
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MariaLake - I had that problem when my mom was living with my family and I. She could be so nice to my sons (teens and thank goodness) and then nasty nasty to me. It was stressing all of us out so much. Now that she is fairly settled in a lovely AFH, she does not have the Jeckle and Hyde personality so much (a tad) but has balanced out more. I guess having me, the daughter, be the caregiver that set the rules, did the stuff around the house, and took care of her was too much for her. I hope you can find a way to even things out a bit for you.
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Marialake,
How an affected elder cycles through their behaviors can be dangerous, alarming, baffling, impossible to respond to [or not], at any given time.
Talk about tangled wiring! Elders can make the sanest person feel like they've lost their own minds----Mom's favorite game was gas-lighting---1st isolate the target person, then gaslight them to oblivion..
If someone has had mental ills all their life, particularly undiagnosed and untreated, then dementias, or just plain aging challenges are so much harder to deal with!
Yes, they DO, at some level, KNOW their behavior is screwy--and they can't stop themselves doing it. Many of us have witnessed that.
There are LOTS of ways and tricks to dealing with it, but like herding the proverbial cats, no one thing consistently works.
My Mom did this over her lifetime by doing/saying something really mean to someone, then finding a 3rd party "confessor" [She's sooooo not Catholic!]---to tell how bad she felt about it---no apology to the victim/target; and woe the "confessor' who mistakenly thought they were supposed to carry an apology to the target/victim---no, no, no!
It's the pressure relief of doing something inappropriate that they can still do---something that brings even a fleeting feel as if they still have power over their world, even a bit. Sometimes that makes trouble and grief for caretakers. Sometimes they threaten. Exactly like small children...if they can't get their needs met by being good, they will try it by being bad---and it's impossible to predict, 'cuz even when a caretaker is great, th elder hs their own perceptions.
They can't help it--it's tangled up in deep-rooted survival instincts.
Sometimes one can only walk away from the elder and their messes,
to allow Help Systems to step in--they too often can't bridge the gap if any family members are in the way trying to "do right by Mom"---they'll see the elder getting their needs met--not a destroyed caretaker.
In the process of trying to love their elders and respect them, caregivers get hurt, too.
It's important we prevent sacrificing ourselves on the altar of life-long dysfunctional family---we're worthy of having a life, too....we're not supposed to be disposable lifesavers---that's not care-taking. So, rowing away from her sinking boat is a great analogy that sadly, must be done sometimes.
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Oh do I relate to this one. My 91 young mother has 5 definite personalities. I can tell which one is present upon entering her house and just taking a look at her facial expression. She was working the selfish, self-centered, short tempered, irresponsible, hateful one today. I haven't seen that one for a couple of weeks so I guess evil Mary was due to make an appearance. I just got done what needed doing and got the heck out of there. I did have to laugh because she knew I was heading for my escape so she told me I could leave before I could get out the door. Did I mention narcissistic control issues? LOL Good luck and just know you are not alone.
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