Has anyone turned over care of a parent to a government guardian? If so, what is involved?

Sorry, too many posts but I did read Janes and she makes some good points. And the one that pointed out that u may not be able to see Mom if u give her responsibility to the state.

You may have mentioned it but I didn't see it, is Mom on Medicaid? If not u need to file for it, if yes this facility is being paid for this nurse to come in. I would bet she is a state nurse since they are a county run facility. As a government facility they are probably a charity facility. As POA you r not responsible financially for her care. Unless, you signed something saying u were taking financial responsibility. Think, if she had no one who could they go after? I would do what Jane suggested. I would also start looking for another facility. Mom will eventually need more care than an AL can give.

I just managed to find the relevant law in California regarding resignation of an attorney-in-fact (the OP is her mother's attorney-in-fact). Section 4207 of the probate code covers resignation, and says:
"An attorney-in-fact may resign by any of the following means:
(1) If the principal is competent, by giving notice to the principal.
(2) If a conservator has been appointed, by giving notice to the conservator.
(3) On written agreement of a successor who is designated in the power of attorney or pursuant to the terms of the power of attorney to serve as attorney-in-fact.
(4) Pursuant to a court order.

I'm assuming the OP doesn't live in California. Before talking to a lawyer, might be useful to look up the relevant statutes for one's own state.

This sounds like a really tough situation for the OP.

In terms of overseeing an older person's long-term care, there's being financially responsible and then there's making the decisions (which usually requires being general durable power of attorney or being a guardian/conservator).

Some states have filial responsibility laws, and an older person's children can be held financially responsible. I read that historically these laws haven't been enforced but that now some facilities are trying to use this route to help get paid.
https://www.agingcare.com/articles/filial-responsibility-and-medicaid-197746.htm

Otherwise, if you're unable or unwilling to keep overseeing your mother's care as POA, then she would presumably need to be referred to the state for guardianship proceedings. I am not sure who would initiate that petition or pay associated court fees.

As someone else noted, the best would be to speak to a good elder law attorney, but you can certainly start by calling your local area agency on aging and trying to do some more research on your own.

Good luck!

I have to wonder about the social worker. Maybe getting you to use your own money to pay for things is going to making up any kind of difference and then some. Tell the social worker the next time she asks for extra money, the house has to make due with her Social Security check minus the $20 for personal needs.

Dontask4handout: Thank you so much for your answer. The class action lawsuit you wrote about is exactly what I need to look into. The rouge facility were my Mom lived for 14 years was going down this path. My son stepped in and got Mom out of that horrible place before they completed their devious plan. Mom is at a heavenly private Senior Facility in Independent Living getting 24 x 7 caregiving between me and my son and his wife. The new facility is totally supportive. We moved Mom to a facility near our home. My Dr., Church, friends in the community and my sons friends who work in this facility have everything going in a loving and positive direction. Mother suffered terribly at the hands of the rouge facility. I think they were trying to break her health down to the point where they could milk us for huge sums of money in Personal Care and the Health Center then let her die like I saw other elders go through. They could have been eyeing getting a Guardianship. The rouge facility was nitpicking, setting me up and making up huge lies about me. The reports they documented were against me for events that never happened. The corporate culture was to lie. I never got incident reports of injuries in Physical Therapy, falls in personal care, failures to administer certain medications when Mother was forced into their Personal care hellhole where they injured her, were negligent . . . I could go on and on, I already have on Agingcare under a string of other topics. They defied her Dr., her Dr.'s orders, POA (that is me) and Mothers stated wishes. We were fortunate to get her out alive. Her Glaucoma went from moderate to severe and suffering from visual hallucinations  due to their negligence and she sunk to mental confusion from all the falls she had. She also ended up in a wheel chair when before she was forced into Personal Care, she  could walk in a perky manner with a cane. Upon my complaints about all incidents to various agencies, they were so political my complaints ended up nullified. The ombudsman's heart was in the right place, she agreed with me that I was being set up and lies were being made up about me. when I blurted out my account of the abuse and negligence . She agreed with me that we should move Mother when tearful from my emotional account of the incidences. It later got back to me that she denied ever having expressed her belief in what I expressed to her that day as truth. My hours were cut to 4 hours a day from 10:00 am to 2:00 pm . I was not permitted: to go into the Dining room with Mother, to speak to others, to attend caregivers support meetings or activities, to take Mother out of the building, etc. Mother had numerous falls, the Nurses brought her back to her room after meals, left her in front of the TV when her injuries from so many falls prevented her from being able to get to the bathroom or her bed. Thank God we escaped the fate they had planned for her. Thank you for some direction in your comments.

By all means go see an Agency on Aging. They will direct you. If you put her in a state qualified nursing home they should take medicaid patients. They bargain with the gov and accept what is paid for their care. It is true, what the person can keep of their SS. Sorry you are going through this.

To answer your questions, no you do not have to continue meeting her needs and no you are not horrible. You have shown remarkable generosity in all that you have done so far. Going forward, do what you think is best for you and for your mother, in that order.

I have a similar relationship with my mother. When I moved back to my hometown, I set boundaries. For example, we would never live together and I would never provide personal/nursing care. My resolve is being tested right now and the guilt can be debilitating.

You are not alone. Best wishes for a speedy resolution.

You better learn about abusive predatory guardianship. I had to let my foster dad go because I was just not cut out to care for him in his state of mind. I didn't know what I was facing, and I got cut off from ever seeing him again. The nursing home first started verbally abusing me before I soon after saw them physically abusing another resident right in front of me. When I had to report it, it wasn't but days later I happened to have someone with me for my protection when I went to see my foster dad, only for one of the staff on the Alzheimer's wing to try to get me alone but I wouldn't go without my friend as a witness. That's when we were told that the guardian cut me off from seeing my foster dad. It happened right after I reported abuse that I clearly witness against another patient. Sometime later when I went in just to see if he was still living, sure enough they were abusing him, too. I'm so glad I had someone with me when I saw this. Come to find out, being cut off from your friends and loved ones is actually pretty common. There is now a class-action lawsuit against this type of thing, but I'm not sure who started it. You can report anything you know but give as much info as absolutely possible. Usually abusive probate guardians go after the wealthiest or anyone they think they can get something from. You'd better do your homework and do it now and learn all you can. On YouTube, type in 'how your elderly parents will become a ward of the state'. You'll want to put these videos into a special folder for future reference because you don't want to share them on social media, there are three parts to this video and you better learn all you can. I only wish I would've known about this ahead of time because I could've used it against them. Sometimes you just don't have a choice but to let your love one go, but they cross the line when they go too far. You better find out who to turn to in your state for reporting abusive guardianship. What you want to do before turning your loved one over is get some very strong legal protections for your love one's money before hand and prevent it from being overturned by the courts and prevent the guardian or any future guardian from ever getting a hold of that person's money. They may try to bully you into turning it over to them, this is why you need strong legal protection because they'll definitely try to use the courts to get it away from you if they can. They're bullies, don't fall for it! If you get some kind of legal protections ahead of time before turning your loved one over for guardianship, make sure your lawyer has all their ducks in a row and make sure your position is under strict supervision of your lawyer and make sure you have a really good one with lots of experience in this area, especially if your elder happens to be wealthy because I know what will happen in the end and the info is out there to prove it. What will happen is if the system gets a hold of her this love one's money, they'll definitely use it all up until it's gone and one of two things will happen: within hours of the last time being spent, your loved one will either be turned out into the street with nothing or they'll conveniently die and the body will be cremated to destroy evidence of whatever they did. You'd better get your love ones final wishes in writing and get something set up with the funeral home now and put some legal protections in place so that it cannot be overturned and get your lawyer involved

First, let me say that I am so sorry that your childhood, and therefore your adulthood, have been bereft of a mother's love. None of us who had that wonderful gift, whether from our biological or adoptive moms, cannot imagine our lives without it so we cannot say we understand but we certainly hurt with you, pray for you and, frankly, stand amazed that you are there, caring about, and therefore caring for your mother, at the loss of your time, your energy for other things and your funds and, I'm sure, so much more. Your story does not sound horrible to anyone here, and you have put yourself in the ranks of good daughters, here and everywhere. You are not behaving LIKE one of us, Steppedup, you ARE one of us. And we are amazed, dear Sister, amazed!

You are not alone; your mother is not alone!

1. There is an ombudsman with whom you need to speak as soon as possible. Please read this article from Elder Law Answers.

https://www.elderlawanswers.com/ombudsmen-front-line-advocates-for-nursing-home-residents-1105

Elder Law Answers will be a great help to you in other ways, too.

2. It sounds as if this social worker and/or assisted living facility should be reported to the state. Social workers are professionals who are licensed by the state. If she is truly a social worker, her license must be displayed on the wall of her office, along with the contact information of the governing board which licenses social workers in your state, where reports must be made. Call them; they will welcome your call, listen to your story of your history with her and suggest how you may proceed. If she is not licensed but is practicing within the bounds of your state's Social Work Practice Act, this is illegal; it has serious consequences for her and for the patients/clients and family members she is or could be hurting – "fundraising" for her employer, a.k.a. extortion, better not be in her job description; it is illegal.

The same thing holds true for the owner/administrator and/or the facility itself. The licenses for the Director of Nurses, if s/he is involved, and for the facility are posted somewhere. Take a photo with your camera to avoid any obvious lingering while you take notes or other actions they may consider threatening. Or take a "group photo" or "selfie" where the documents on the wall are the real subjects of the photos.

In both my personal and public experience, the agency will gently ask you questions, then undertake their investigative steps from there. In one personal experience, I was shocked when the state found that the provider had violated 16 of my 23 rights as a patient when I expected 2 or 3 had been! What I experienced afterward was a significant change in staff and a complete change in operational policies which benefitted patients and staff alike; it was a turning of the institutional culture upside down, or more correctly, right side up. Two of the new management staff came alongside me for the long term, gave me their direct and private numbers with instructions to call at any hour– that sort of thing. Perhaps it was to safeguard me from any retaliation, as I think about it now, but I only detected real concern for what HAD happened to me, not for what might happen to me.

Regarding turning your mother's care over to the government, I think what you are talking about is legal (Power of Attorney [POA] and/or POA for Health Care [POA/HC] or some similar designation) and financial. Ideally, our elder parents and all the children would have conversations before the needs arise, resulting in a completed or updated Last Will and Testament and a Living Will with Advance Directives about how each parent wants the end of their lives to play out from the health & medical perspective, and arrangements made for handling bills and other disbursements of funds should the parent become incapable of managing their affairs.

But "ideal" seldom happens. What is available in your situation is the court system. Your mother would, and should, be declared non compos mentis and someone or some agency would be assigned by the judge to take responsibility for her affairs, including her care. In one personal example, a lifelong family friend, an "honorary niece" who lived locally to my dear uncle came alongside him when his behavior became erratic. She oversaw the creation of those end of life documents with him; I was appointed POA/HC, probably because I was his eldest niece and a healthcare professional. She admitted him to one facility but his dementia soon outpaced their ability to care for him. Together, we found an excellent memory care facility, and she bowed out as she was also helping another elderly friend in the same ways. Whew!

The court also appointed a nonprofit agency in the county where he lived to manage his funds. In practice, we worked hand-in-hand. As I knew how his dementia progressed through our phone conversations, the time came when he could no longer call me in the midst of his times of panic and incoming calls from phone banks preying on seniors, so I informed the agency and asked to stop his phone service.

Ask the professionals as you pursue these services and avenues to gain great improvement in your mother's circumstances, Steppedup, if there are other services you are missing. I hope that when her circumstances are better and your workload is lessened, you will find that you now have choices about how much time, if any, you will be spending with her and for her. I'm praying that you will find peaceful nights and healing in your relationship with her.

I totally understand your situation. My mother was cruel and abusive to me my whole life, until at age 50 I decided to cut her out completely, which she was fine with, until she started needing me 3 years ago. She's 87 now, has dementia which has not improved her personality at all. She's been in and out of AL and my sister has POA, so I stay as far away as possible. I don't feel responsible for her, not because of how awful she treated me for 50 years. It would be difficult to care for anyone in this situation even if she had been a responsible parent. I mostly feel sorry for her and others in her situation, but keep my distance.

Hang in there, you are doing the best you can do. It sounds like your mother may already be on your state's long term Medicaid program... otherwise I'm not sure where that social worker comes from. She must have a supervisor. "Not an entitlement program"... ok, fine. But what is the program responsible for? Read any materials you were given when your mom first got this SW and be educated about mom's rights and responsibilities. Would a nursing home be a better option for her? All the doctor visits would be paid for by her Medicare. And there are nurses there 24 hours a day. I hope things resolve quickly for you. Best wishes!

i just couldn't "trust"gov't with my parents.Not on any level like that.But, you are 1 who has to do what you gotta do. I am so happy they are able to remain stable,and dad just suffer from past 10 months light-to-mild dementia,still have a full life,after a great quick positive recovery from a mild stroke,dr.,says he is doing better than most from taking good/great care of his entire life,and raising us kids!(He also golf his entire youth and adult life just about.)Could've easily went pro,he is THAT good still early 80s.
I could not again place daddy or mommie in a home like that,nope.I just couldn't.But may God bless you,in doing what is right/best for you,and your mother.adios.

Tell this social worker you don't have any money. At this point, the only thing you can do is get her on medicaid and let the state take care of her. She will be ok, visit her occasionally if she is tolerable and just live your life.

Steppedup, don't see how you could be legally required to keep caring for your mom. You can get the information you need from internet searches and phone calls. An eldercare attorney would cost hundreds more of your own money.

I hope you do give up this burden, especially since your mother wasn't good to you.

Just another vote so support, steppedup. moongazer, I appreciate your story, too, that's a long time for your sister! and I think you did good things.
Good luck - definitely contact Council on Aging or whatever it's called in your area, the website will have lots of info to start with.

And if you can't afford an Elder Care Lawyer call Council on Ageing. They were a huge help for me and they were free.

Does she get SSI? I don't think they can require you to pay any out of pocket expenses for your mom. And you are not a bad person giving her over to the state. When I put my mother in law into an AL I refused to pay for anything. They said they could get her in sooner if I'd pay for the first few months, but I knew that once I started paying they might not let me stop. I loved my MIL and walked all her paperwork through and visited several times a week (I lived close) I was glad to do it. But I couldn't afford to pay for her care.

Have you visited an Elder Care Lawyer? They would be best to advise you. I understand it's probably more money out of your pocket, but at least you'd know what the social worker and group home can legally do and request that you do. It would also answer any questions about state guardianship as well. Take care of you. 

My husband and I went through this with his mother. Like you, neither of us had a positive relationship with our mothers and we live states away from them geographically. But my husband agreed to be his mother's Power of Attorney. When she was no longer able to safely live alone in her home he also convinced her to apply for Medicaid. Like your mother, she existed only on a Social Security check. She lived several months in a nursing home, alternatively with stays in a hospital. Her social security checks were almost fully given to the nursing home, with a small portion ($20 a month) allowed for her to buy basic essentials like lip balm and body lotion. We and her other children took turns buying adult diapers for her, as these were not provided by the nursing home. They did provide cloth diapers but she did not like them. So those diapers were the only thing we really had to chip in financially for. She had no assets when she died in December 2016, other than a house with a reverse mortgage on it, which we allowed to go into foreclosure. We visited her about once a month while she was in the nursing home (about a 6 hour drive each way) until she died the day after our last visit (Christmas Day). It is unfortunate that we were both relieved when she did die. I understand that feeling of heavy burden when you are having to provide care for someone who wouldn't normally give us the time of day -- until she needed us for something. If your mother is basically impoverished, be sure to help her to apply for Medicaid. My own father is also in a nursing home, on Medicaid, following a stroke. My sister, who is a nursing home nurse, left her job for 2 1/2 years to move in with my parents to help care for them. I stayed with them a month while my sister got things lined up to allow her to make that move. (We all live in different states.) My mother at the time was undergoing treatments for and recovering from stage 4 colon cancer. The level of care as well as the emotional tensions was a great burden for her to bear and I don't know how she did it for so long. When my sister decided to leave after 2 1/2 years, and place our father into a nursing home, he was extremely angry. He still is. He thinks that family is supposed to take care of each other. But, sadly, neither he nor our mother were any real caretaker for us when we were kids. They left us to our own devices and rarely offered to lend a hand for any situation. It's hard to find compassion when old memories are constantly being triggered every time I communicate with them, so I completely understand your uncomfortable position. But you need to take care of you. I believe that forcing ourselves to stay in these types of situations is what is often an underlying cause of us developing harmful body conditions, like cancer. These overwhelming responsibilities while we struggle with negative emotions and memories literally eat us up inside.

I can understand that you feel this way and I wish you all the best. Don't let anyone, let alone that social worker, tell you what you must/should do. You are the best judge of what you need to do, and as someone else mentioned, without guilt. Yes, enough is enough. Good luck!

Thank you all. 😊

It's hard enough caring for a parent who was a good, loving parent. I can't imagine how stressful it would be to care for a bad parent. It would be natural for you to feel angry and resentful! I don't know if I could do it.
Whatever you decide to do, don't let anyone make you feel guilty. You need to take care of yourself and prepare for your future. Good luck!

I think there is no problem with signing her over to the state for care. She most likely will be in the same facility. You can also give conservatorship to the NH . The take a break then just visit her. Stop taking phone calls from the social worker if she's that terrible. I know lots of people will disagree - but enough is enough.

I have no advise, sorry. But I wanted you to know someone heard you. Hugs to you.