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I hate to even think my father would do this, but I think sometimes he says or does things to make me feel sorry for him or worry about him. For example, whenever he knows I'm upset because of something he said, he starts saying he does not feel good. I'm not saying he's faking but I have noticed a pattern. Also, sometimes he does not answer his phone. I will get worried and drive across town and find that his phone is on silent. He keeps his phone right beside him all the time or he's reading news articles on his phone so he should still see he has a missed call. I just called him three times.. no answer. I was getting ready to go over there and then he calls. He said he did not hear the phone and I reminded him that it was right beside him when I left.. so then he says he was outside. I realize that he's gotten older and some of things he does is because of that.

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Umm.. your Father needs a maid?
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A little help can mission creep it's way to running another person's household.

It can be hard to SEE the invisable line from one to the other. But your gut will probably FEEL it.

What's your gut telling you?

"I need any advice I can get. I wash all his clothes weekly, clean weekly, grocery shopping and take him to all doctors appointments".

Your Father's army-of-one is advancing...
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As posted in another thread….your Dad would benefit from assisted living. You can go back to work and living your life.
Then if you call and he doesn’t answer , you know he is safe in a facility . You could always call the facility staff to see how he is doing . Not sure if your Dad is being manipulative or he’s lonely or frightened . Start looking for a new home for Dad with or without him .
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Isn't it just awful when your parent over-plays so that you feel guilty for NO REASON!!!
We moved into a home across the street from my parents when my dad had a stroke, and we knew we needed to be there to help my mom. She was always playing the 'help me' card. Whenever we tried to do something without her, she'd wait about 5 minutes then call, saying that we never come over and what would she do, and how would she manage. Yup, we'd turn around, forget the movie we were going to, and be with her. Time and time again.
One time, we had a very small earthquake, and she called with "heeelllpp me". Of course, we ran across the street. We found her in the living room, stretched out on the floor, face down with the phone about a foot away from her. So by this time, some of the neighbors had also come into her house to see what the commotion was about. I know how she fakes everything just to get attention, so I got on my knees beside her, leaned down and whispered to her that I knew she was faking, and the neighborhood was now in her house, and she'd better get over it. She gets up on her knees, gets to a chair, gets herself up and says, "Well, that certainly was some earthquake."

I guess what I'm saying to you is that our parents take advantage of us when they can. And that you can only be taken advantage of if you allow it! Just hope you don't do the same to your kids when the time comes!
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Beatty Jun 2023
Academy award heading your Mother's way. 🤣 Oh gosh, sometimes funny , sometimes tragic, the drama Queens in life keep us busy.
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i have a LO who intentionally made me worry.

OP, whether your father’s doing it intentionally or not, (and my opinion is, it’s intentional. why? because when you know doing X or Y worries your family member, or that it can be easily solved by doing Z, then it’s intentional)…he won’t change. some other thing WILL appear in the future that’ll worry you, and he could have easily informed you, there’s nothing to worry about. this WILL keep happening.

here’s the point:
“He still lives alone but I'm foreseeing that he will need constant help in the near future.”

the only way you’ll feel less worry, is for him to have caregivers at home (or facility). i suggest, keep him home. he’s happy at home. he’s mentally competent. he has every RIGHT to enjoy his home, and not be forced out.

he might not want caregivers. but that all depends on you OP (if you’re willing to help). search for a good caregiver (it’s not easy). if the caregiver is truly a nice, good, sweet person, he’ll actually be very happy to have someone around. be careful, many caregivers pretend to be nice (especially in the beginning). some are thieves, mean, incompetent, unreliable…

you need luck, and lots of interviewing, to try to find a good caregiver. we had terrible, unreliable caregivers from agencies. i found good private caregivers. it took me a long time to find them.

it’s the only way, OP. so long as your father lives alone, you’ll keep worrying, and crises (real and fake) will happen.

it’s the only way = to have caregivers (whether at home, or facility). you’ll still worry, because problems WILL still happen. but you’ll worry a bit less.
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My mom does this all the time. Attention seeking behavior, martyr complex, "I'm not feeling well so I can't (fill in the blank)" or "it didn't work for me" or "I didn't get the text" or "you said X" (I said Y, 8 times).

It's not new behavior…it's her lifelong habit of being shifty. Worse now that she's in her 80s. Utterly exhausting mentally and emotionally. My sister and I are spent.
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This situation is all too familiar for many of us.

I used to drive to my mom’s house when she didn’t answer the phone. I would show up not knowing what to expect and then she would say, “Oh, honey. I’m sorry that I was in the bathroom when you called.”

This was before mom or I had cell phones. She had one phone in her hallway and she wouldn’t hear it ringing if she was in the bathroom showering.

We can’t possibly know if your dad is putting on an act. I’m sure that it’s hard for you to figure it out right now. Everything is a guessing game in the beginning of this new chapter in your dad’s life.

Maybe your suspicions are correct and your dad is looking for attention from you. Some people do want others to feel sorry for them. They get satisfaction from seeing others cater to them. The truth is usually that their behavior is working on our nerves and we are growing tired of it.

Don’t allow this situation to get to out of control. The minute you start to feel resentment towards your father, it’s time to make some changes that will benefit each of you.

Start researching care options for dad, a facility, a caregiver but don’t even think about him moving into your home. Trust me, been there, done that and it is very challenging to have a parent living in our home. Avoid it at all costs.

Best wishes to you and your father.
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After 15 years of increasing care for my mother, we (meaning Mom, me, doctors) finally decided she needed to go into a nursing home at 85. Worsening dementia, wandering at night, decreasing mobility.She had an Alexa set up at home, so I set one up there. Also a full Fire TV. And I have multiple papers printed with the same instructions around the room. I tell her, the nurses, look at the paper, and say what it says to do what you want. Music, it will turn on the tv, change channels, volume, etc. And also all she has to do is say to call me and it will (ring my phone).One other thing it does, is let me "drop in" (intercom). Don't really like using that, but it saves calling the nurses every time. She also doesn't answer her phone, and it's often turned all the way down too. I'm pretty sure when it rings she will just stare at it at times. On purpose or not, I don't know. At times she's better, at times she's worse, I just don't know. I dropped in once, and another call came in, phone ringing, she said out loud "what the world", kind of frustrated like.

Edit: Town is 30 miles away (closest facility, closest hospital, closest stores of any kind), so stopping in and checking every time was not practical.
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Classic case of manipulation, power, control. making you worry is all part of the game.

He has a phone, he can call you when he needs you, break the cycle, don't call 3 times, no need to. As for the other "I'm not feeling well" I would say "Sorry I'll leave now".

Might be time to explore placing him in AL, he will have plenty of attention there and be with people his own age. My mother is a "Sarah Heartburn" she can fake anything and will to get attention.
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MeDolly is correct. It can all be a part of the game. Clearly you recognize when it is happening. And if there is some dementia here then he isn't fully capable of controlling his instinctive actions to protect himself, to get himself attention. Think of it as being much like a 2 year old.

If there IS not dementia, then, recognizing it as you do, simply ignore it. Things that don't work are seldom used on a continuing basis by those well enough to KNOW they aren't working.

As to the phones, stop overchecking. No answer, don't call back for at least one half hour. That is a sort of Pavlovian training. Might you miss a fall or something? Sure. But you might miss a fall that occurs at 5:01 a.m. if you last spoke to him at 5:00 a.m. as well!
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iwvicki Jun 2023
Get a "help I"ve fallen" medical alert necklace and be sure they know how to use it adequately and that takes some training. The aging person has problems you can't possibly understand until you get there and they are surprised and trying to cope as well. Everyone on this thread seems kind of self centered to me (not all) so have a meaningful sit down and figure out what everyone can do to make it work for all.
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From your previous posts I think Dad is playing games. There was a member on here that just laughed at their parent when she would make certain remarks. "Right Mom" type of thing. He is acting like a child, you treat him like a child. "Dad, you must keep the volume up on your phone because this is the last time I am driving across town when u don't answer" Install cameras where you can look in. I don't own an Alexa but are they 2 way so you can call and he can answer?

Make your call 1x a day as a check in. If he doesn't pick up leave a message. Make him realize that he is not funny. That this is not cute. Remind him of the boy who cried wolf. Tell him u do not have to help him and it would not be hard to walk away and leave him on his own. He needs u more than you need him. Lay down the law.
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AlvaDeer Jun 2023
jeannie, your level of perfection is admirable, and it gives us all something we can aim for.
But most of us are only human.

We have periods of imperfections, episodes of mini-breakdown, longings for a more normal life , frustration, and --dare I utter the word?-- even anger sometimes.

I am not seeing the levels of "cruelty" you are seeing here in responses, but we are all different.
While I do admire that you have a depth of understanding with regard to your elders, I also think that your judgement of others here is just a little bit "harsh".

I think most people on Forum are kind, and are, at the least, "trying". People who come to the forum, for the most past, are already steeped in guilt: feeling not good enough, patient enough.
I always try to reassure that we are NOT Saints; and that it isn't a great job description, anyway!
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Many elders make an art out of manipulating us with their Woe Is Me stories, my mother was one. Had one set of stories for me, and another set of stories for the rest of the world who served her in Assisted Living. For me, she was lonely and starved of attention, dying and in pain 24/7, for everyone else, she was Strong Like Bull and blowing kisses to her caregivers while yucking it up. Two entirely different faces were presented depending on the audience. Keep that in mind with dad.

I'd like to address your statement, " I guess I just do not understand why someone would be this way. I would never do this to my daughter. I want her to be happy. I have already told her that if I get in a position that I can not live alone, that it is ok for me to go to assisted living. She says would not do that but I want to know that it is ok if it comes to that."

We don't understand this type of manipulative behavior bc we're normally functioning people. People operating with mentally ill/ personality disordered or dementia riddled minds don't think normally. Stop trying to "think like dad" bc you Can't! Just chalk it off to his dysfunction and find coping mechanisms to deal with it, and boundaries to set up to prevent you from getting sucked into the games.

Re: the stigma of Assisted Living. It's pure nonsense. My folks lived for 7 yrs in an AL that looked and felt like a 4 star hotel with all the amenities. I should be so lucky to have the financial wherewithal to afford Such a thing in old age, that my children would have that peace of mind, to know I'm well cared for in such an environment. We must all ditch that nonsensical thought that AL is some 19th century insane asylum and recognize it for what it truly IS in 21st century America: the answer to a prayer for those who can afford it, and for us "children" of difficult parents we can't and won't have living with us.

Wishing you the best of luck with all of this, faithfulbeauty.
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jeanniebug1969 Jun 2023
I'm truly grateful your parents were in such a great assisted living situation. However, it's important to remember there's still many AL's out there that appear great on the orientation & walk-throughs, but what goes on when nobody's keeping tabs on the patient can still be horrific in many AL's. I have a good friend who's 93 year old Dad had to go into AL. Their entire family searched & searched for a "top of the notch" facility. They finally found one. It was sooo expensive, but very "high end" in the richest part of town. (A very big city) When they went back 24 hours after he'd been admitted, his clothes & bed were absolutely SOAKED in his own urine & feces. He hadn't been fed, he was dehydrated because they hadn't even brought him water. Worse, his "roommate" that shared his room (there was a curtain between them), was in his 70's, & was masturbating furiously when they walked in, with the curtain not even pulled up for privacy. Ugh! My friend & her family were furious. They confronted the staff & were told they'd been "short-staffed the past 24 hours." They also said their Dad's roommate had a mental disorder that caused him to masterbate all the time. My friend & her family immediately literally pulled him out of there soaked in urine by themselves & never went back.Their Dad wound up in hospital that night due to dehydration, & bcus the AF had not given him any of his meds. Including his heart meds. :(He stayed in ICU until they found a really good facility a few days later. They say if you put a family member in an AF to be sure to check on them often. In person. And make sure the staff knows the family (or anyone) is keeping an eye on their care. I've seen & heard way too many Nursing Home horror stories. Including male orderlies having sex with the older, defenseless female residents. AF's & Nursing Homes can be a great thing. But never ever put someone in one & not check on their care frequently. The staff needs to know people are watching them for appropriate care. Abuse can & does happen all the time in these places. There was a Nursing Home up in the Midwest that got busted for the young FEMALE workers taking pictures of themselves sitting on the old men's laps. Laughing & exposing the elderly men's private parts. It was disgusting. Many of the caretakers in AF's & Nursing Homes don't make much money. If I caught an AF or Nursing Home staff treating a loved one like that, I'd probly wind up doing real prison time.And my mom's a diagnosed Malignant Narcissist who also has BPD.They're helpless, sick & weak at that stage of life. There's no excuse for it. It makes me sick that facility workers can be so cruel & sadistic. Just watch out for whoever you put in AF's or Nursing Homes. 👍

I've personally known too many friends who've had terrible experiences with supposedly great AF's & Nursing Homes. I'm years away (hopefully) from needing one. But they'd literally have to pull my dead carcas out of the bottom of the Mississippi River before I'd go live in one. It IS terribly lonely for alot of the residents. I haven't lived an entire productive, good life helping my fellow human beings just to wind up lonely, scared & sick in my old age. Screw that!
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Absolutely! Part of their pattern especially when they live alone. Some reach a point where they need constant attention. But we children have lives too. We established boundaries w my mom as to when to call etc. It hasn’t fully eliminated the calls for attention but have lessened.
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Absolutely! My 94 yo mother does it all the time. Every time I have to leave the house she panics and makes up stories so I won’t leave. One time I believe she put herself on the bathroom floor and called out for help. Master manipulator. Be strong, be firm and reassure he/she will be fine. Then go out.
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I don’t know my Dad would accidentally push a button and his phone was on Silent . Plus his hearing is awful .
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Yes, yes and yes. My mother has always been manipulative with her learned helplessness and it's worked for her benefit. My father was a giver who needed a damsel in distress so they were a perfect match. My brother was especially used emotionally by my mother and he ended up never marrying and drinking himself to death by 60 years old.

Now there's me - the only one left to manipulate. Even when my daughter, a friend and a sitter all told me - independently on different occasions - that my mother was manipulating me emotionally because she enjoyed my reactions, I scratched my head. (My friend recommended the book by Cloud and Townsend "Boundaries".)

My mother had me on a roller coaster. She called me to her bedside in January 2020 after breaking her hip and told me she was dying. That tore me up and I got so upset I had to call my cousin just to talk through it. What he said to me has stuck with me since - he said "she is enjoying the attention". I was like....what???

I still hadn't connected who she was, how she treated me while growing up and what was gong on at the time. Eventually I began to realize that I was being manipulated to feel sorry for her so I would pet and coddle her beyond what was necessary.

I read the Boundaries book. I tried to define what my role as her caregiver required of me.

It's been a journey and I things are still not perfect, or as I would like for them to be, but I no longer allow her to drive me to despair in order to get attention.

It's really sad that our natural love and concern for our parents is taken advantage of, but it's a reality for many of us.

Peace.
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Kinglilly Jun 2023
Yes I’ve noticed this with my mom now,, my baby sister lives like this. I can’t even stand to talk to her anymore she turns everything into wo is me. Ugh
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My experience with both parents and now a 94 year old aunt taught me they regress to childlike behaviors. Yes, they are very manipulative.
All three also had dementia.

My sincere suggestion to you is set some boundaries and hire part time help. Is he still driving and is he able to do basic care for himself? Maybe he needs an occasional housekeeper to clean and tidy up.

Don't be so available.
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jeanniebug1969 Jun 2023
Boundaries are important, but nobody can rationally expect someone with DEMENTIA to ALWAYS remember boundaries, if at all.

"Don't be so available."

Geez. Really?? Your parents put up with you when you were childlike & TOTALLY helpless as a newborn infant, then a baby, then a toddler. We ALL cried & screamed alot as little ones & drove our parents nuts at times. Sometimes everyday till we got old enough to understand the world around us better & talk. And they put up with us when we were (at times) hormonal, moody, know-it-all, not-so-fun-to be around teenagers.

It's now time to be a grownup & return the favors they did for you for many, many years.

I definitely agree that hiring Caregivers & housekeepers to help out is very important, if the family can afford it. Because yes it's very important the family gets "breaks" so they don't get burned out, & even resentful. I've seen that too many times.

These people are sick. They're not thinking straight half the time. It's up to those who ARE thinking straight to come up with do-able & liveable plans for their care.

If you can't be "so available," find people who can be, for their sakes & yours.
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It may be that it's hard for him to say out loud that he wants more support but doesn't want to appear 'weak'. Pride prevents some people from asking for help, and likely in elders it's an admission of declining abilities. Becoming dependent on anyone is hard for many people, scary. Even if there's an element of Narcissism, needing to always be the center of attention, the 'guilting' is manipulation to get needs met when the person has no other 'tools' to communicate asking for help. Sometimes this is fear and ambivalence about becoming dependent, losing one's autonomy. Your father may have inadvertently turned his phone off, it happens to the best of us! So, try to find out his true concerns and create a method to meet his needs while maintaining your life.
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My father has put himself in an advanced age state due to his drinking himself into oblivion. He is slowly recovering from the damage that he did to himself but flags go up each time I talk to him, He claims any care I try to set up for him is holding his past mistakes against him. He claims he does not need the support and makes me feel guilty for having care givers there twice a week. Some things I think are just age related. My dad is horrible with his phone as well. Sit back and listen to dad and see if he's trying to communicate other concerns to you that he's not truly ready to admit. He may be scared, and enjoying having someone around and does not want you to go. I try to see the best and think positive about his remaining life. I also have to accept the fact that my "DAD" is not the one that raised me and that i was so close to. This version can be very narcissistic and manipulative. I hope things work out for both of you and you can find your new normal. Have a blessed day.
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every darn day. My grandmother used to fake cry to make people feel bad for her. She never realized it just drove people away.
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NeedHelpWithMom Jun 2023
Love this honest answer! My husband’s grandmother was the same. She also drove everyone nuts.
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I answered earlier. Just want to say that this thread is chock full of wonderful answers filled with truth, reality and wisdom.
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I can see you are a caring daughter. If it were me, I would set limits. If he tries to manipulate you, you can only feel guilty if you let yourself. Either make a joke about it with him, “dad, are you trying to change the subject?“ or deflect. Since you know, your dad always has the phone with him, you will have to steel yourself to not think something has happened every time he doesn’t answer. You might set times when you tell him you are going to call such as at 9 o’clock in the morning or 3 o’clock in the afternoon. Otherwise don’t call. If you tell him, he will be calling at those times, and that you expect him to answer, that might work. Worth a try anyway.
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And then there was my dear mother. Widowed at the age of 36 (my father was a prisoner of war during WWII and never recovered) with 4 small children, the woman fiercely rose to the occasion. I have never felt more save in my life than I did with my family of 5. She outlived her second husband (who I helped care for when he lived into his 80s) and remained strong until she died at 96. She died in her home and we helped her so she would not die in a hospital, her one main wish. She had her manipulative moments but those were balanced out with her continued humor and her drive to stay alive. I am caring for my partner now of 21 years who has been diagnosed with AD. She is not my mother by any means but she, again, has an independent streak. She is more self-absorbed than she was before AD set in, but will sometimes recognize that and say, "oh don't mind me". I guess that comes from her MFT training. Based on these posts, I count myself as one of the lucky ones.
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Much patience is required, as our parents age they need more help and attention. They get lonely and if they end up wheelchair bound or bed bound can be worse. It’s to be expected life takes a turn and we become more of a parent and the parent the child. They end up depending on their children, it’s not easy. Everyone is different and only you know your parents ways. I live 900 miles from my mom and ended up having to hire caregivers to assist her daily. My siblings are not available and not interested to help full time. So there is no choice to do what is right.

Have you thought of getting a camera or 2 to help you not to worry? How about a landline as a secondary means of communication or use the camera to communicate as well. Best of luck.
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I'm still working on boundaries & my Mom passed nearly 6 mos ago. The memories of her manipulative tactics are so strong. She was a Borderline personality w/NPD. Brutal decades dealing with her antics. I have to work to push the horrible memories to the side & out.
Keep up your boundaries best you can. Call & visit when it works for you. You cannot pick up every phone call--be her only source--her only reason to go on. Grey block when you are with her, as in tune out what you know is manipulative with her verbal or actions. Does she have neighbors who are friends? Any other family? So many seniors do have a good social support system. I could not get my Mom to accept help in or convince her of anything. Just endured as best I could until God decided it was time to take her out of her misery. Your every breathing moment should not be consumed with running continual interference for her...
PS People: If YOU are not currently social & out walking & interacting with others, start TODAY! Make friends with neighbors. ..garden.. Get involved in your community...hobbies. Do not put your kids or grandkids through this. Find purpose & joy in every day.
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Yes, absolutely happens all the time in one way or another.

Set appropriate boundaries for both parents safety and your well being

Avoid the guilt trip.
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YES, is the answer. Maybe some of it isn't their fault. It's a way of trying to retain or exert some sort of control when they feel it slipping away. But it's still disruptive and distressing, and there's always the, "What if he/she isn't faking this time? I'd better head over there just to be sure" dilemma. My mother's schtick is threatening to die or kill herself. I've started pretending I don't hear these comments. My favorite was when she threatened to 'run away'. My answer? "Mom, you CAN'T RUN. Maybe you could 'shuffle away'??" I wish I had advice for you; I don't. But know that a lot of us out here feel your pain.
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Just like ours kids manipulate us for a cookie, our parents absolutely manipulate us as they become a bit childish as they age.

All we can do is not fall into the trap and try our best not to do it to our own kids when we age 🤞
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TouchMatters Jun 2023
It is not childish.
This is an insult.

A person's brain chemistry changing - and with this awareness, comes compassion and respect for a parent or anyone in this situation.
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When people are scared due to feeling they are losing their independence "as life used to be,'

Or

And

When the brain chemistry changes, the behavior will change. To that person, it is a matter of 'life or death'. So, yes, likely millions out there deal with a parent who is manipulative ... although the question is WHY and how to manage these situations.

Call or read Teepa Snow's website. She offers webinars on how to deal with these situations / changing brains. I studied with her for 1-1/2 years. It is invaluable information.

It is also important to realize that a person 'trying' to manipulate is not doing that if the person on the other side does't allow it.
- Do look at your own reactions / responses - and the 'why' behind how you react / respond.

* Setting limits

* Learning how to 'talk' to a changing brain is vitally important

* Give yourself time outs

* Be clear on what is needed and stick to it

* Offer/ learn 'reflective listening' (do not argue. It is a waste of energy/time for all concerned and causes undue, unnecessary emotional and psychological upheaval)

* Understand, with compassionate responses, of where the 'other' person is in their mind, their brain. Put yourself in their shoes ... they are scared.

Gena / Touch Matters
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Those people suffering from Dementia do become childlike. And I think its easier to deal with them when u realize that. And yes, alot of what they say and do you have to just let it go. But at no time should we have to deal with cruelty on their part even if they don't realize what they are doing. We need to learn how to walk away.

If you read OPs profile you will see that she has really not had a good relationship with her father. She has taken on the responsibility of helping him but wants to know if he could be manipulating her. IMO he is. He is living alone. Keeps his phone turned off or so low he can't hear it knowing OP worries when he does this. So, she is suppose to put up with this from a man who may fully understand what he is doing? I say no. This is being passive-aggressive.

Now if he is declining and this is now a problem, then find ways to check in on him so ur not running over there all the time. If he gets worse time for placement. In no way should OP feel she needs to do on hands care.
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faithfulbeauty Jun 2023
Thank you for your reply. I'm definitely trying my best.
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