How do I tell my 97-year-old father that I am seeking legal guardianship?

I’d suggest that you make it about the future, not about what he needs right now. Find a story about someone else who was fine, just like him, then had a problem, and everyone was in difficulty because there was nothing in place. This someone had a stroke and couldn’t speak? Fell and broke a leg? You can work it out. Don’t tell him about changes that you are planning to make immediately, and don’t suggest that he isn’t capable now. And probably don’t make changes immediately, as it will make you a liar – leave it a month or two. That’s my best suggestion, kindest to both of you. I hope that there are other ideas, too.

Margaret, that is really good advice.

I told my dad that it was about being able to make sure that if something happens to him I will be able to ensure that his wishes are fulfilled. Without DPOA his future would be in the hands of complete strangers that could care less about his desires.

Then I told him what happened when he was in the hospital near death. A hospitalist actually said that my dad requested a DNR, this was added to his chart and because I had no authority (POA/Guardian) I could not get it removed, so that was what made him realize that he could be dead if I didn't have the authority to speak for him. It was never removed but I fought tooth and nail to make sure he got good care, he would have died had I not been willing to raise the roof. It is frightening that you bring someone that is so sick to a hospital and a "Dr." In private, no witnesses says that this person said no resuscitation and it sticks.

Perhaps telling him my story will help him understand that it is really about ensuring his safety and wishes.

I aged 10 years in the 10 days he was so near death and I had to fight tooth and nail to make sure he was being treated medically and not just being allowed to die. There were no heroic measures taken, just good medical care. He lived and is now enjoying some quality life.

Hugs 2 u and dad, this is a hard situation to be in.

How far into Dementia is he? Does he do well at this point. For guardianship you need a doctor maybe two to say he can no longer care for himself.

Will Dad understand what you are saying? Or forget it within a few minutes or the next day. If yes to what I have said, then I wouldn't say anything.

I was a bit forced into going for guardianship for my dad by our care manager, the doctor, the hospital, and APS. I was awarded in August. Initially, I didn't discuss this with dad but finally had to tell him what I was doing when he was served papers. There was also a court visitor appointment. I did end up telling him about being forced into this (it is not something I necessarily wanted) but also twisted it around a bit by telling him we were preparing for the future and that not much would change right now. That's where I have left it. I have had have full access to his financial situation over the last few years but when it came time for me to go through his files to do the financial inventory, he freaked out. It has been baby steps with him but ALWAYS emphasizing that I am 'preparing for the future'. I am currently dealing with his wanting to control the incoming money. (IRA checks, pension checks, etc). Since he likes spreadsheets that I make for tracking other things, I have created one that we will record the incoming money on so he can still be part of the process. He's a bit of a control freak.......

Thank you for the excellent ideas.

Margaret, I will most definitely present this as a way to hopefully avoid future problems as so-and-so encountered.

Isthisreallyreal, I’ve told my father that if anything were to happen to him medically, I would not have the authority to act on his behalf. He said that he has “never made any decisions based on fear”, that when he needs my help he will tell me.

JoAnn, my father’s dr fully supports this. Without the support of my husband and I my father could not live alone. We visit him daily, buy his groceries, and often prepare his dinner. He often forgets to eat, preferring to snack all day on Klondikes. He refuses to bathe, has burned steaks to the point of flames, left the gas burner on and couldn’t smell it until we arrived and instantly smelled gas all over the house. He is an extremely intelligent person, and as such, has a good speaking vocabulary that can fool many as to his dementia. He forgets everything.

Although I know this is the right course of action, the little girl in me is afraid of upsetting her father. I feel like a traitor and am very worried about how to initiate the conversation. Once started, I can verbalize all the good supporting points. I just don’t know how to begin.

Don’t tell him.

I think tackle the ‘never make decisions based on fear’ position. OK what are decisions for plans for the future ever based on? Hope for the better alternative, or fear of the worse alternative? Is there any point in planning to avoid the worst alternative, if you leave it until the worst alternative has already happened? If your father is still very intelligent, you can back him into a logical corner on this one. You are not a little girl any more, and if you inherited your father’s genes then you are intelligent too. Now is the time to prove it.

If the worst comes to the worst, unfortunately ‘just do it’ may be the only alternative. Because he is so good verbally, you need to get your ducks in a row. Start a written record of incidents, with dates, and take photos or videos. You will need evidence to show what is really happening, and it needs to be specific. This is the first time I have heard of someone’s verbal logic brain outlasting their ability, it’s creepy, and you have my sympathy.

Some states require that ALL "Interested Parties" be notified by the Court that legal proceedings for guardianship are taking place. Since your Father is the "vulnerable person" whom the guardianship is being petitioned for, he is definitely an "Interested Party" and depending on the state, will receive notification of ALL Court proceedings and decisions related to the Guardianship.

Unfortunately the possibility of your Father getting upset at you for initiating guardianship most likely will occur. It is only natural that an independent person gets upset when someone else tries to control their life and make decisions for them (even if they cannot make proper & safe decisions for themselves). My Mom got upset with me because I was acting as POA after she entered the nursing home because her mental and physical abilities were impaired. Mom managed to convince the Social Service Assistant at the Nursing Home that Mom was alert enough to handle her own finances and the SSA helped Mom to change her POA from me to our elderly family attorney. After 4 stressful months of meetings, the Court-appointed "Attorney Ad Lidem" decided that Mom did NOT know what she was doing when she changed her POA and the attorney nullified Mom's changes and Mom's POA reverted by to me.

I think you'd better take legal advice on what you MUST tell him in order to fulfil legal requirements. Your father has a right to object to this application, and the right to be represented in court.

You're approaching it, naturally enough, as though the only problem might be his hurt or angry feelings. But you've yet to establish that a) guardianship is in his best interests; and b) you are the right person to be his guardian. If you haven't explained clearly what is happening, with due tact and kindness for sure but clarity is the thing, you're going to run into trouble. Don't make any assumptions.

It might be better after all to ask an experienced lawyer to do this job for or at least with you.

you probably won't be able to get guardianship without a court order. you father has to have his full wits to assign a POA. you definitely need to see an eldercare attorney.

Oh sweetie.

It is the COURT that will decide whether or not guardianship is the best way to serve your father. The judge may not agree that it's necessary. Or, the judge may agree that it is necessary but that you are not the best choice of guardian. Or, the judge may tell you all to go away and work out the POA. Or, the judge may approve your application exactly as you hope, and perhaps pat you on the head for taking prompt and conscientious action. It all depends. One way of gaining the judge's approval, though, is to pay the closest possible attention to the ethics of what you're doing.

What the court will not do is listen to you and not care what your father has to say about things solely on the grounds that you and his doctor say he's demented.

And if you put yourself in your father's position for a moment, you will see that it is just as well that courts prefer to judge these things for themselves. How would you like it if other people pronounced you barmy and were able on their own say-so to take over your entire life?

Your father will receive notice from the court about the proceedings. If he is unable to understand the information, and/or ignores it, the court will still want to know why he is not either there himself or represented by his own advocate. This could be a lawyer, or it could be a guardian ad litem.

Has your lawyer suggested, perhaps, that it might be a good idea to find independent legal counsel for your father? The important thing is that your father is represented by someone who has no other client. It doesn't mean you can't have a good working relationship with them, because at the end of the day *everybody* wants your father to be well-supported and happy, but you want somebody there whose only job is to speak on your father's behalf.

Um. I don't know your father. He could be howling at the moon for all I know. But on the not making assumptions point, with your father being resistant and then forgetful during discussions about POA, I think you would be wise to consider just the possibility that it's not so much he doesn't understand, as that he doesn't agree and doesn't care to talk about it.

As my mother lay dying in the hospital only a few weeks ago, we kept having to remind her why she was there. (heart attack and series of v-tach events). Most of the memory issues were the drugs she was on. We waited until she had a period off the drugs and was quite coherent to ask if she would give me POA. My mother was strong willed and independent, but I was surprised how readily she consented. You mzy have the same experience.

First of all who is currently paying the bills...cable,elec.,insurance,perhaps he is living in an apt. in which case there are fewer bills to be taken care of...and groceries ...how is this person with dementia getting to the grocery store?
this does not make sense and frankly both my cousin and my brother had bank accounts together with the ability to sign checks for bills...at 97 years old you had better get the poa...which I did after the caretaker son died unexpectedly with
four accounts two which were the 97 yr, old dads where the pension A&A was going into the savings and social sec. into the checking...my brother and cousin
did not need a POA...brother was able to pay bills through the computer...although he lived with Dad...…….I simply went to a lawyer to get the poa and dnr, after brother caretaker suddenly died, when dad went into the nursing home...although if he had stayed home I still needed this which is no big deal I paid 400 for a legal doc. with a notary.who came to the nursing home as Dad became incapacitated after caretaker son died and I could not take care of him, could have employed caretakers although,..I did not have any passwords for my brother and frankly panicked a bit...…..why would your Dad be adverse to giving you the POA?...maybe he has a lot of means?Dad and brother lived with their soc and pension with brother paying the bills...……...in their house that was owned by themselves.

Hi;
When i noticed my mom's condition was worsening i decided to seek for legal advise and quickly found out that not all lawyers are suited to present POAs'. You see there are different personalities. And if mom percieves a person as nongrata during her moment of lucidness. That she won't forget. So, i visited my lawyer with my mom after mentioning his name during many short conversations. And, as expected, she forgot. But, i continued to mention my lawyers name in a friendly way until i asked her if she would like to meet my lawyer friend. By then, this lawyer and i became friends because of his circumstances with his mom. To my surprise she agreed.
That first time he introduced himself he talked to my mom about his mom and how he did everything within his possibilities to accomodate her and protect her from unforeseen circumstances. He actually put himself in my shoes and she in turn became aquainted with demeanor. At first, i thought she would simply forget the conversation, But, then she looked at me and said that i was all she had and that there was nobody else. That i should do the same thing he did. When my lawyer heard that, he asked her if she would agree to give me POA over her wellbeing. And she agreed.
This may seem like a long story. But, finding the right lawyer takes time and perserverance. It's like finding the right surgeon. I hope this helps some of you.

You could be describing my father. He just kept passing all assessments because he has a high IQ, and was a salesman. He knows how to say what people want to hear.

He said what your father says, “I will ask for help when I need it, not when you say I need it. “
Here is what we had to do. We had to let him fail. What that meant, was only going to take him to the store every two weeks. Letting him make doctor appointments, and using the senior shuttle to go to them. He was not capable of doing this.
Not cleaning his apartment-he didn’t want anyone to touch his stuff anyhow.
He refused in-home help from anyone, even his kids. He refused any help for anything. He was furious that doctors diagnosed him with dementia.
Well, very quickly things went downhill, and we got guardianship after many incidents.
How to tell him what you are doing? We did not tell him until he was diagnosed as not having the capacity to handle his decisions.
We did not tell him until we had to.

I finally told him we were seeking guardianship because we loved him and wanted his life to be less complicated. That we were really afraid for his safety and others safety. I told him I was on his side.

I asked him,” If we don’t do this, the state will, as APS has been called three times by your neighbor’s. Wouldn’t you rather have someone that loves you and will watch out for you be your guardian? “
He got very agitated, but he did not remember it a few days later. He is not angry at anyone now-he still thinks he is in charge. He is safe and clean and not hallucinating or afraid now.
There is that little kid in all of us that goes through this. We have not been “in charge” of our parents. But our parents did not have dementia when we were growing up. Now they need our love and help to live their last years under our protection and love. It means doing what we feel is right, as they have a damaged brain and are not capable of managing.
Hugs to you-you know him, you love him, you will do what is best for him.

It's my understanding that guardianship is a time consuming and costly undertaking that may involve court appearances etc. So that it is easier to deal with getting the POA's needed. Is your father capable of that? My mother had been diagnosed but is still somewhat functional. Amazingly so. Although the first attorney who was $$$ seeking was not helpful as we had hoped and charged for every breath taken in her space, she believed my mother was not capable of signing documents based on hearing her mini mental score. HOWEVER the 2nd attorney we consulted was far better and charged flat fees for her services. She was also a well regarded elder law attorney and her perspective was to meet with us and be able to ask mom some questions that indicated she was capable of understanding in the moment even if short term memory was not so good. If you go ahead with the guardianship I think you just have to say you want to be able to do what is best if he should become unable to make decisions for himself. Are you next of kin? If so, then as far as health care, if he became unable, you would likely be the person turned to anyhow.

Dear daughter and caregiver
if your Dad has dementia, I think it’s dangerous for him to be living alone. Would he know to leave his home if there was a fire? He seems to be making bad decisions already.
I commend your idea of conservatorship or guardianship.
The kinder thing to do is not to tell him.
you already know that you cannot discuss with him anymore and in my opinion, this will upset him. You are feeling guilty but you shouldn’t be. You are doing what is right to protect him from himself. If you can bring in a mobile physician to determine that he hasn’t capacity then you can seek the next step if guardianship.
If he goes to the ER for any reason sometimes hospitals are adept at helping with the pathway to guardianship or more likely, conservatorship.
Otherwise, I would call your local Alzheimer’s Associstion for counseling

I was thinking about how difficult it must be to collect ‘evidence’ against your father. Please think of it as being ‘for’ him, not against. The very worst thing for both of you would be a bitter court battle and a refusal for guardianship. You want it to go through as quickly and bloodlessly as possible, for both your sakes. Do what you need to do without feeling bad about it, and be ready to tell him that 'spying' was to help both of you. Best wishes.

Here is my story on guardianship.
I filed for guardianship of my wife because I did not want to risk having some "professional guardian" popping up out of no where and assuming the care of my wife and possibly myself.
The horror stories here went on for a few years. Laws have since been changed to protect the LO and families.
Without a guardianship appointment the state could have come in and taken her away from me. As it is now I have responsibility for her completely. She is still at home and doing well. Here I cannot put her into a facility without notifying the court, as I understand it.
It is a very big responsibility, as has been mentioned here.
Last year was my first year for reporting. Reporting to the court here is an annual event.
Not only do I have to account for everything she owns or that we share in ownership. But I have to notify all concerned parties annually. That included mailing a a copy of the annual paperwork to her and myself.
But being the guardian means that no one else can make decisions for her without my approval. No one can take her away from me without going to court and having my guardianship overturned. And that would take a bit of doing.
I did all of this just to protect her from others that only may have had a financial interest in doing so.
However, by the time we got her diagnosed and into court I don't think she understood what was going on. She seems comfortable with things now. Even if she doesn't know what year this is.
I would just him what and why you are doing this.
Good luck

Deciquesi; I always thought guardianship is the basicly same as medical POA or DURABLE POA .Anyhow ....any way you look at it you must do this for your father he cannot possibly make his own decisions anymore and people could take advantage of him or he could get hurt dont worry about telling your Dad hes going to have to understand he is very sick because his mind does not any longer working properly ..if your really worried you can ask a Dr. ,or a nurse to help explain maybe a trusted family member ,lawyer,even a neighbor , but do not hesitate any longer move on this before something terribul happens ,if hes 97 thats pretty old .Please don't be offended ...but you do not want to be investigated for elderly Neglect ,I really think that leaveing an elderly person alone that has dementia or Alzheimer's is a major NO NO the person with dementia can not be alone its like leaveing a toddler alone it just can not happen so just tell your dad that you can get in trouble ...he will understand ...everybody gets old,but Not everybody plans for getting old...do not feel guilty !you are doing the right thing !!and you are a very Good person!!! for doing this !!Good luck !! Hugs to you !!!

Lorraine, you state "I always thought guardianship is the basicly same as medical POA or DURABLE POA." 
They are NOT the SAME.  A Medical POA or Durable POA is chosen by the person while guardianship and conservatorship MUST be COURT-APPOINTED even if the person states that they want a certain to be their guardian. 

https://www.guardianship.org/what-is-guardianship/

www.elderlawanswers.com/whats-the-difference-between-guardianship-and-power-of-attorney-12419
What's the Difference Between Guardianship and Power of Attorney?

A power of attorney and a guardianship are tools that help someone act in your stead if you become incapacitated. With a power of attorney, you choose who you want to act for you. In a guardianship proceeding, the court chooses who will act as guardian.

A power of attorney is an estate planning document that allows a person you appoint to act in place of you for financial purposes when and if you ever become incapacitated. You may limit a power of attorney to a very specific transaction or you may grant full power to someone over all of your affairs. For more information about powers of attorney, click here. 

Guardianship
If an adult becomes incapable of making responsible decisions due to a mental disability, the court may appoint a substitute decision maker, often called a "guardian," but in some states called a "conservator" or other term. Guardianship is a legal relationship between the guardian and the person who because of incapacity is no longer able to take care of his or her own affairs (the "ward").

The guardian can be authorized to make legal, financial, and health care decisions for the ward. Depending on the terms of the guardianship and state practices, the guardian may or may not have to seek court approval for various decisions. In many states, a person appointed only to handle finances is called a "conservator."

Because guardianship involves a profound loss of freedom and dignity, state laws require that guardianship be imposed only when less restrictive alternatives, such as a power of attorney, have been tried and proven to be ineffective.
 

https://info.legalzoom.com/guardianship-vs-durable-power-attorney-20060.html
Guardianship Vs. Durable Power of Attorney By Chris Blank
No one likes to consider the possibility of becoming physically or mentally incapacitated. However, guardianship and durable power of attorney provide two possible alternatives to ensure the proper handling of your affairs if you are not able to do so for yourself. The two roles are similar, but there are significant differences between them.

 Durable Power of Attorney
Assigning a durable power of attorney allows you to designate a trusted friend or relative to handle your legal, financial or medical affairs on your behalf if you become incapacitated. With a durable power of attorney in place, your agent may pay your bills, access your bank accounts, file legal actions on your behalf and make decisions about your medical care when you are unable to do so. A durable power of attorney remains in place until your death or until you cancel or revoke it.

Guardianship
Guardianship is an action taken by the courts to appoint someone to look after your welfare when you have become incapacitated. Along with handling your personal and financial affairs, a guardian is responsible for looking after your physical well-being. For instance, a guardian may arrange for an in-home nurse to care for you if you cannot bathe or feed yourself. A guardianship remains in place until you are able to demonstrate that you are competent to handle your own affairs, or until you die.

Mental Competency
Even if you have assigned an agent with a durable power of attorney, you retain the authority to handle your own affairs as long as you are mentally competent to do so. In addition, the agent cannot make decisions that explicitly go against you

Often when someone petitions for guardianship of a "Vulnerable" person, the Court appoints an attorney temporarily, often known as the "Attorney Ad Lidem", to represent the "Vulnerable" person during the court proceedings.  The family member or whomever is petitioning for Guardianship &/or Conservatorship will also have their own attorney during the proceedings.

When I petitioned for Guardianship & Conservatorship of my Mom, I had my own attorney and the Court appointed an different attorney as Mom's "Attorney Ad Lidem" to represent her during the proceedings.  This attorney is the one who decided that Mom did not know what she was doing when she changed her POA from me to our family lawyer; and who changed Mom's POA back to me after a series of meetings between Mom and her attorney, our family attorney, and me and my attorney.  After the Attorney Ad Lidem made her decision, then the Court Judge agreed with her decision and I legally became Mom's POA again.

If I had been appointed (and accepted) being Guardian/Conservator, within 30 days of Appointment Letter, I would have had to file with the Court: 
1.Acceptance Letter
2.General Information form
3.Address Information form
4.Personal and Financial form (10 days if with Proof of Restricted Account)
5.Inventory and Affidavit of Due Diligence – Sent to all
interested persons with Notice of Interested Party form(Inventory is reviewed by Judge or Clerk Magistrate to determine if bond is appropriate)
6.Acknowledgment of Financial Institution
7.Proof of Restricted Account (if applicable)(10 days)
8.Bond (if required)  (Usually $10,000)

90 days after Appointment, I would have had to complete Guardian/Conservator training and file certificate with the court.

One year from Appointment & Acceptance Letters, I would have had to file (as Guardian/Conservator), a Reporting Packet which includes:
1.Annual Report on Condition of Ward
2.Updated Inventory
3.Annual Accounting (if money has been deposited or paid out)
4.Certificate of Proof of Possession
5.Redacted Bank Statements/brokerage reports
6.Notice of Right to Object
7.Certificate of Mailing  (to ALL Interested Persons, such as the Vulnerable Person, any family members, etc.)
8.Personal and Financial form

As Durable POA, I did not have to fill out any of these forms.

I had POA for my dad but only one bank would honor it. The other 2 wanted additional forms completed by HIM which defeats the purpose of the POA. I knew he wouldn't do it so I went the guardian/conservatorship route instead. This has opened up a whole new can 'o worms, however, and my workload has greatly increased. Instead of leaving his house maintenance to him, i am now responsible for finding services like gutter cleaning. My husband and I already own a house and I sure don't need another. But dad doesn't want to have money spent on that and will refuse anyone who comes over. I work full time so it is up to him to direct them when they get there. All he has to do is refuse their help. Not to mention that things like batteries in smoke detectors are my responsibility also. I never worried about this before but now everyone looks at me as the responsible one. I knew I was taking on the financial thing but it hadn't dawned on me that all this house maintenance would be included too.