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VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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I suspect you mean, how do I tell mom , you know she is having bladder issues but is hiding it from you.
That's a really good question, if it was me, I think I would start by maybe putting it on me. For example like saying, mom when I sneeze I pee a little, or say " omg don't make me laugh, or I'm going to have to change my pants". So she opens up to you.
That's just a thought, hopefully others have better ideas.
You don't have to say anything. Remove her underwear from her drawer and replace it all with disposable pull ups. If mom is living with you (or you with her) you MUST start a routine bathroom schedule. Every 2 hours you TAKE mom to the bathroom. You stand there with her and help her. Keep an extra set of clothes in the bathroom for the "just in case we have to change". ("Oh, I was going to put these away and guess I forgot them in here, aren't we lucky") Mom is past the point of "knowing" or realizing what her body cues are. And getting back to the first bit above...if your mom is living alone and you are finding "treasures" hidden around the house it is time that mom is not living alone and she is in Memory Care or you begin living under 1 roof.
Anyone who is hiding urine soaked clothes instead of dealing with it is either terrified because they are in an abusive relationship or their mind is slipping a few gears, given that this is an elder care forum I'm guessing it's #2. The first thing you need to do is wrap your head around the idea that this formerly competent person is no longer capable of dealing with this on their own. Buy some incontinence pads or underwear, tell her you've found her wet clothes and you have found something to help. Hopefully that's all you'll need to do for now but if there is denial or push back you may need to remove her regular panties from the drawer and replace them with incontinence underwear, then insist she uses them.
I agree with throwing out her cloth undies and providing only pull-up style disposable briefs.
I also agree she should be escorted to a doctor's appointment for a wellness check where they will test her cognition and memory. Hopefully she has all her legal ducks in a row (has assigned a PoA, created her Advance Healthcare Directive, written a legal Will with an assigned Executor, etc). If she hasn't done this, then don't take her in for the medical exam until she creates these documents. An attorney will asses her legal capacity to make the docs (and the bar is very low so don't assume she's not able).
Then you will need to really think about whether she is truly safe living on her own and managing her own affairs.
With Dementia I doubt if your going to be able to explain incontinence to her. My Mom always wore a pad for her problem so changing over to depends was no big deal. Rehab started her on Depends and at that point she was in the early stage of Denentia.
If she is living with you, take her to the bathroom every two hours. No water afterva certain time of night. Introduce the Depends as "no more wet clothes".
You can tell her, but if she has dementia this will make no difference. She cannot compute it. Her ability to reason things out is gone. Think of it this way.......our toilet training is some of the hardest, most shame-based training of our entire lives. The loss of bladder or bowel control, even the passing of gas is a horrific thought to us for all our lives. And it is well engrained in our brains. Like Music we can remember when we can remember nothing else, it lives on when all else is going. Any training that is this crucial to our lives ALL of our lives dwells in the emotional centers that are very primitive parts of the brain. We can "know" reasons and "be told" reasons; but they don't matter. So your mom is subconsciously reacting to very primitive triggers that have nothing to do with REASON.
What you are experiencing is so common, and quite honestly so difficult to control. Just have a good disposal lined easy to access can or hamper in every room and reinforce "Here's the place for all our wet clothes mom" just as tho you all have them. Hopefully a habit will be formed. I surely do wish you good luck in this. Keep the house spare, clean, and as free of hiding places as you can.
Maybe print out an article fur her to read to show it’s normal and not anything to be ashamed about my father had a job digesting it as well i bought disposable pants for him and a baby nappy bin ( didn’t call it that tho otherwise he wouldn’t gave used it) and told him it’s normal to get leaks as we get older and I’ve bought him some pants to help he originally said he didn’t need them but slowly I had to keep repeating he did and it was normal shops filled with special underwear for men and women because it’s such a common issue and we can safeguard to ensure she doesn’t have any embarrassment if she doesn’t accept insist she use a special pantie use them a few times and it help she will want to continue using them its not easy especially for the older generation who have more pride than the present Generation its just a condition that affects us all as we get older - and that’s why they invented special discrete underwear good luck
Talk with her about there being no reason to hide clothes. Just tell you if she has accident and you can help her. Laundry basket in her room might help.
Yes, a laundry basket in her room may help ... or she may put her lunch in it, too.
(One Main) The issue on this site is that many people do not know what dementia is ... how the brain (chemistry) works / changes ... what parts of the brain do what - and stop as brain cells die. And then they give advice, although certainly wanting / trying to be helpful and supportive.
People need to educate themselves on what dementia is (Teepa Snow) and how to manage / communicate.
People need to (project) / put themselves in the brain of the inflicted person ... not continue / look at the situation / need from the point of view of the person 'wanting' to help / needing to take care of the welfare of another.
You do not 'tell' or use 'logic' with a person inflicted with brain chemistry changes / loss of brain cells = dementia. They do not understand BECAUSE they cannot.
I do not know your reasoning / desire to 'tell' your mom about incontinence. Do you want to tell her to STOP? She cannot. Do you want to tell her to STOP hiding wet clothes? She cannot.
* You take care of the situation as best you can. * Check her disposal underwear (I hope you are using these pads) to change as often as needed * Look in closets ... and under the bed. She may hid anywhere. She may also start / be hiding food. * Get caregivers as needed.
Get on Teepa Snow's website and educate yourself about what dementia is and how to communicate with persons with it; it is not easy; it is exhausting and heartbreaking. Still, you need to learn how to best serve your mother.
Buy her some pull up disposable underwear. If she still is in denial and refuses to wear them, take all her underwear away, so it's the only thing she has. Some people I know have complained that the disposable pull ups are uncomfortable. Another option would be to buy incontinence pads - much like menstrual pads, that stick in your underwear.
Also, cover her favorite chair and her bed with washable underpads, to avoid saturating the furniture with urine.
As far as talking with her about it, Be direct! Simply tell her its time to wear an incontinence product. Tell her that hiding her soaked clothes is causing her home to smell like urine - it can be an awful ammonia smell! Any wet clothes need to be washed daily. If this feels like too much for her, perhaps you (or someone) can help with the laundry task.
I swapped out the normal undies for pull-ups. Later I put a change in her bathroom. Tucked into towel bar which was in front of the commode so she could see them and change. Later we had to ask for used ones (holding out a bag lined waste container) and handed her a fresh one. Took it out to garbage immediately. No household odor. Then we entered era where she didn’t believe she was wet and didn’t want to get up from her chair to change. Variety of things done at this point to gain compliance. Mostly discovering that she was losing her ability to walk. She is totally bedbound now.
The point is, it’s progressive. No need for big discussions. Just pay attention to what is happening. This was with my DH aunt who has dementia.
My mom, who didn’t have dementia and was never totally incontinent, was convinced to wear pull-ups to keep from having to rush to the bathroom. She was afraid of falls so she was compliant. Also when she stood up the urine would sometimes flow. Because she understood what was happening, she wore the pull-ups.
About hiding them. She is perhaps embarrassed, afraid, doesn’t understand what’s happening, maybe thinking she will manage it when she is alone. Any number of reasons depending on her level of decline which is sometimes difficult for you to comprehend, much less this forum.
I would just pay attention to what’s missing from her wardrobe or how many changes in the wash. Something simple to keep up with like this. It may be as simple as it registers with her that you get angry when she has soiled clothes. Just focus on the underwear and see if her behavior changes. Sometimes I noticed it would be a long time between changes in behavior. Other times things declined rapidly. It’s good to pay attention to all ADLS when you see a change in one area, might be going on in others and you haven’t noticed yet. This is also a good time to get home health in with bathing aides if she qualifies and you want her to live at home as long as possible.
Oh I did also provide pads for aunt in the beginning. Actually she was already using panty liners. But that eventually proved too difficult for her, got flushed, panties thrown away, etc. pull-ups worked for years.
My mom use to wear panties with pads. Once she had a long hospital stay, she became accustomed to wearing adult diapers. The pull ups are great. It's more expensive, but the generics are just as good. My dad needed to wear them also. Keep in mind, they can be incontinent with both pee and poop. Sometimes medications or too much fruit may give them diarrhea. It cuts back on huge messes.
M0mmascot: Due to suffering from dementia, your mother's brain has illogical thought processes. Provide Depends for her after you remove her underpants.
The word is "incontinence - lack of voluntary control over urination or defecation:"
Something I never personally see on these posts: when my brother almost died and came to live with us, I realized that he did not seem to know he was incontinent. Fortunately I had padded the furniture. 1. I found that grey sweats will show leaks from diapers when other colors do not ( I got grey for home and black for doctor visits) 2. I learned to watch for the wet marks as it was better than waiting for the urine smell and extensive room clean up. Every 2 hour potty breaks may help ….or not. 3. It is NOT fun to add a pad to the diaper and have it flushed down the toilet ( I got rid of the pads)
Not sure if Mom is living alone, with you or in assisted living.
If alone, that may be challenging but I agree with introducing disposable underwear. The pullup style is not a huge transistion to make. I like the 'special' bin for used ones too.
Depending on where Mom lives, how much she understands & what level of supervision/assistance she has will help you decide what advise will work.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
That's a really good question, if it was me, I think I would start by maybe putting it on me. For example like saying, mom when I sneeze I pee a little, or say " omg don't make me laugh, or I'm going to have to change my pants". So she opens up to you.
That's just a thought, hopefully others have better ideas.
Best of luck
Remove her underwear from her drawer and replace it all with disposable pull ups.
If mom is living with you (or you with her) you MUST start a routine bathroom schedule. Every 2 hours you TAKE mom to the bathroom. You stand there with her and help her. Keep an extra set of clothes in the bathroom for the "just in case we have to change". ("Oh, I was going to put these away and guess I forgot them in here, aren't we lucky")
Mom is past the point of "knowing" or realizing what her body cues are.
And getting back to the first bit above...if your mom is living alone and you are finding "treasures" hidden around the house it is time that mom is not living alone and she is in Memory Care or you begin living under 1 roof.
I also agree she should be escorted to a doctor's appointment for a wellness check where they will test her cognition and memory. Hopefully she has all her legal ducks in a row (has assigned a PoA, created her Advance Healthcare Directive, written a legal Will with an assigned Executor, etc). If she hasn't done this, then don't take her in for the medical exam until she creates these documents. An attorney will asses her legal capacity to make the docs (and the bar is very low so don't assume she's not able).
Then you will need to really think about whether she is truly safe living on her own and managing her own affairs.
If she is living with you, take her to the bathroom every two hours. No water afterva certain time of night. Introduce the Depends as "no more wet clothes".
She cannot compute it. Her ability to reason things out is gone.
Think of it this way.......our toilet training is some of the hardest, most shame-based training of our entire lives. The loss of bladder or bowel control, even the passing of gas is a horrific thought to us for all our lives. And it is well engrained in our brains. Like Music we can remember when we can remember nothing else, it lives on when all else is going.
Any training that is this crucial to our lives ALL of our lives dwells in the emotional centers that are very primitive parts of the brain.
We can "know" reasons and "be told" reasons; but they don't matter.
So your mom is subconsciously reacting to very primitive triggers that have nothing to do with REASON.
What you are experiencing is so common, and quite honestly so difficult to control. Just have a good disposal lined easy to access can or hamper in every room and reinforce "Here's the place for all our wet clothes mom" just as tho you all have them. Hopefully a habit will be formed. I surely do wish you good luck in this. Keep the house spare, clean, and as free of hiding places as you can.
and not anything to be ashamed about
my father had a job digesting it as well
i bought disposable pants for him and a baby nappy bin ( didn’t call it that tho otherwise he wouldn’t gave used it) and told him it’s normal to get leaks as we get older and I’ve bought him some pants to help
he originally said he didn’t need them
but slowly I had to keep repeating he did and it was normal
shops filled with special underwear for men and women because it’s such a common issue and we can safeguard to ensure she doesn’t have any embarrassment
if she doesn’t accept insist she use a special pantie
use them a few times and it help she will want to continue using them
its not easy
especially for the older generation who have more pride than the present
Generation
its just a condition that affects us all as we get older - and that’s why they invented special discrete underwear
good luck
Brain cells have died which is what happens when a person has dementia.
She has dementia.
Yes, a laundry basket in her room may help ... or she may put her lunch in it, too.
(One Main) The issue on this site is that many people do not know what dementia is ... how the brain (chemistry) works / changes ... what parts of the brain do what - and stop as brain cells die. And then they give advice, although certainly wanting / trying to be helpful and supportive.
People need to educate themselves on what dementia is (Teepa Snow) and how to manage / communicate.
People need to (project) / put themselves in the brain of the inflicted person ... not continue / look at the situation / need from the point of view of the person 'wanting' to help / needing to take care of the welfare of another.
Gena / Touch Matters
I do not know your reasoning / desire to 'tell' your mom about incontinence.
Do you want to tell her to STOP? She cannot.
Do you want to tell her to STOP hiding wet clothes? She cannot.
* You take care of the situation as best you can.
* Check her disposal underwear (I hope you are using these pads) to change as often as needed
* Look in closets ... and under the bed. She may hid anywhere. She may also start / be hiding food.
* Get caregivers as needed.
Get on Teepa Snow's website and educate yourself about what dementia is and how to communicate with persons with it; it is not easy; it is exhausting and heartbreaking. Still, you need to learn how to best serve your mother.
Gena / Touch Matters
If she still is in denial and refuses to wear them, take all her underwear away, so it's the only thing she has.
Some people I know have complained that the disposable pull ups are uncomfortable. Another option would be to buy incontinence pads - much like menstrual pads, that stick in your underwear.
Also, cover her favorite chair and her bed with washable underpads, to avoid saturating the furniture with urine.
As far as talking with her about it, Be direct! Simply tell her its time to wear an incontinence product. Tell her that hiding her soaked clothes is causing her home to smell like urine - it can be an awful ammonia smell!
Any wet clothes need to be washed daily. If this feels like too much for her, perhaps you (or someone) can help with the laundry task.
Then we entered era where she didn’t believe she was wet and didn’t want to get up from her chair to change. Variety of things done at this point to gain compliance. Mostly discovering that she was losing her ability to walk. She is totally bedbound now.
The point is, it’s progressive. No need for big discussions. Just pay attention to what is happening. This was with my DH aunt who has dementia.
My mom, who didn’t have dementia and was never totally incontinent, was convinced to wear pull-ups to keep from having to rush to the bathroom. She was afraid of falls so she was compliant. Also when she stood up the urine would sometimes flow. Because she understood what was happening, she wore the pull-ups.
About hiding them. She is perhaps embarrassed, afraid, doesn’t understand what’s happening, maybe thinking she will manage it when she is alone. Any number of reasons depending on her level of decline which is sometimes difficult for you to comprehend, much less this forum.
I would just pay attention to what’s missing from her wardrobe or how many changes in the wash. Something simple to keep up with like this. It may be as simple as it registers with her that you get angry when she has soiled clothes. Just focus on the underwear and see if her behavior changes. Sometimes I noticed it would be a long time between changes in behavior. Other times things declined rapidly. It’s good to pay attention to all ADLS when you see a change in one area, might be going on in others and you haven’t noticed yet.
This is also a good time to get home health in with bathing aides if she qualifies and you want her to live at home as long as possible.
Oh I did also provide pads for aunt in the beginning. Actually she was already using panty liners. But that eventually proved too difficult for her, got flushed, panties thrown away, etc. pull-ups worked for years.
The word is "incontinence - lack of voluntary control over urination or defecation:"
when my brother almost died and came to live with us, I realized that he did not seem to know he was incontinent.
Fortunately I had padded the furniture.
1. I found that grey sweats will show leaks from diapers when other colors do not ( I got grey for home and black for doctor visits)
2. I learned to watch for the wet marks as it was better than waiting for the urine smell and extensive room clean up. Every 2 hour potty breaks may help ….or not.
3. It is NOT fun to add a pad to the diaper and have it flushed down the toilet ( I got rid of the pads)
If alone, that may be challenging but I agree with introducing disposable underwear. The pullup style is not a huge transistion to make. I like the 'special' bin for used ones too.
Depending on where Mom lives, how much she understands & what level of supervision/assistance she has will help you decide what advise will work.
🌟🌟🌟
Grey for home (see any dampness).
Black when out (adds to dignity).