My 80 yo mother shows plenty of signs of having dementia: she is forgetful, gets confused, asks the same questions over and over, gets obsessive over things so will repeatedly call people and call her bank to check her balance, still insists on driving and will head out to a destination and then realize she's not where she intended, and loses her car when she parks in a large parking lot like WalMart; and at times appears to hallucinate- thinks she's with people when she's not or seeing people who have passed. I contacted her primary doctor and finally they got her in to see a neurologist. I'd been trying for some time to get her to one but she always came up with excuses not to go. The neurologist did an MRI and an EEG and the results have come back as "normal", although the doctor says she has "mild cognitive impairment." So she thinks she's fine and of course continues to drive. Her mother, her grandmother, and great grandmother all had dementia, but she also has psychiatric issues. So if all her tests say she's "normal", are all these behaviors from her psychiatric issues? Thanks for any insight given!
@jeannegibbs, thanks for your comment. I wish everyone could see a clinician trained in geriatrics but unfortunately, we are too few! For the short and medium term, older adults and families have to inform themselves and then persist, as you are all doing.
I'm glad you can support each other in this. I have been recommending this group to other family caregivers that I'm working with.
Sdhlfk, I will contact DMV in his state; His records would support it now, I think - thanks!
They will mail a notice to her that she is required to take a driving test to keep her license. In our state, they gave my mom one month to get that done or her license would be automatically revoked.
Mom's notice was prompted by her driving down the wrong side of a busy expressway.
The cops called my sister and I to tell us about it without her knowledge and she never even mentioned the incident to us...she just kept on driving!!!
Then as luck would have it, last week someone called the cops on her for weaving down their street on the wrong side of the road. The cops came out again and called my sister (who lives in the same city) and she drove to the scene and drove Mom home.
Next day my sister retrieved the car, parked it Mom's garage, and disconnected the battery. We told Mom the cops had reported her and they had revoked her license. Which wasn't 100% true: it will be revoked on June 15 if she doesn't go take (and pass) a driving test. We are not saying a word about it...we're just going to let that date come and go!
Turns out, she hid the initial report and notice from the DMV about the first incident and had had zero intention of taking the test! She was just going to keep driving.
I really don't know what to tell you except that I deeply empathize, she's endangering others by driving and it's unfortunately your responsibility to take action as much as you possibly can, and this situation truly is crazy-making! The very best of luck to you.
#1 Her declining driving skills could harm her and/or others.
#2 She is a huge target for crime as she gets lost in a Wal-Mart parking lot.
#3 Being taken advantage of by unsavory people.
#4 Her hallucinations manifesting themselves into not being able to discern reality from the possible voices in her head.
My step-father has this condition. He's always peppy in the mornings and very cordial until around 4:00-5:00, then things change to the point he starts talking to people, shadow boxing and words I never thought I'd hear come out his mouth.
I had to place he and Mom in a group home. My step-father has become more agitated not only toward the people in his head, but to the staff. Once he's talked out of it, he doesn't remember anything.
He placed his dirty clothes inside the dog food container and does not know how the clothes got there OR who placed them in the container.
Talk with Mom's Dr. He/she can't take the keys, but will "suggest" that Mom be given a basic driver's test, not on the road, but in the area where one must park between cones, 3 point turn etc. You can place a big in the ear of the tester too.
I'm a geriatrician and I routinely evaluate older adults for possible dementia. In principle a correct preliminary evaluation can be done in the primary care office -- or by a general neurologist -- but in practice, they either refuse to do it or do it incorrectly.
Dementia means the following are true:
- The person has developed more than minor problems in some aspect of memory or thinking skills. We gather evidence of this based on what family or other observers report the person is having difficulty with (most people with dementia are poor reporters of their difficulties) and also by doing some office-based cognitive testing.
- The memory/thinking problems must represent a decline from prior abilities.
- The memory/thinking problems are not due to delirium, medication side-effects, or a treatable medical problem interfering with brain function (e.g. thyroid dysfunction, electrolyte imbalance, vitamin B12 deficiency, occasionally a chronic infection).
- The memory/thinking problems are not better accounted for by another mental health condition, such as depression or schizophrenia.
- The memory/thinking problems are bad enough to interfere with the person's normal day-to-day function. This last criterion is part of what distinguishes clinical dementia from mild cognitive impairment.
The basics of evaluating an older person for cognitive impairment are to get information on what are the difficulties and how they've progressed over the past months/years, check for medical problems and medications that interfere with thinking, do a good physical exam (including a neurological exam), and do an office based cognitive test. Then we usually do bloodwork (unless it's recently been done) to help rule out some of those medical problems that can affect brain function.
It is a lot for a single office visit, especially if the family doesn't come with information on what kinds of difficulties the person has been having and for how long.
The Mini-Mental Status Exam used to be used quite a lot but it's not a great test. Most geriatricians consider the MOCA (Montreal Cognitive Assessment Test) to be better. It takes 10-20 minutes to administer. More in-depth neuropsych testing usually only makes sense if someone has subtle problems, or if they do quite well on the MOCA despite their family reporting significant problems.
The MOCA comes in a few versions, so it's usually possible to give someone a "new version" of the test...although someone who remembers the answers to the previous one is unlikely to be significantly impaired.
The necessity of MRI is debatable. It is often done and in most cases shows some brain shrinkage and also some signs of damage to the brain's small blood vessels. These findings are common in most older adults and often don't correlate well to the symptoms a person has. MRI does not easily tell us whether the brain's neurons are being affected by the changes specific to Alzheimer's disease versus Lewy bodies.
Of course, not every older person will "cooperate" with the office-based cognitive testing (already it's often a victory to get them into the office in the first place). If an older person resists or "flips out", then I focus on talking to them just to get a sense of what their reality seems to be, and then I also try to get as much info as possible from family and others (what's a problem, what's new, what's changing). After that, we often have to give the situation some time to see how it evolves.
BTW the older people get, the more likely it is that their brains are being affected by multiple dementia-causing processes at the same time, this has been repeatedly shown in autopsy studies.
A UTI can cause new confusion or illness but UTIs would be an unlikely cause of chronic confusion or thinking problems...and one has to be careful about culturing the urine because many older adults' bladders become "colonized", which means their urine grows bacteria in the absence of a clinical infection. This is called asymptomatic bacteriuria, it's a well-documented phenomenon and studies show it's generally not useful to treat it with antibiotics (you just get drug-resistant infections after that).
Hard to say what you can do if you take your parent to a health provider and they do an inadequate evaluation. I suppose either you can inform yourself and then ask the provider to do a more detailed evaluation, or you can look for a different provider. You shouldn't have to help a provider do their job, but there it is...
It is certainly common for older adults with psych histories to develop dementia symptoms due to developing underlying brain changes. Also I would say that developing memory/thinking problems often worsens any underlying anxiety or psych problems. It is a hard situation for everyone involved, especially the older person and their family.
Good luck, I hope you can get a better evaluation soon! I wish it were less common for people like to you to get the runaround from their health providers.
By the way, most or even all of the comments about this problem are intelligent, sometimes too much so.
At your Mom’s age, I would suggest breaking things down to the basics.
1) UTI’s are absolutely known to cause high levels of confusion. Home urine samples are very easy to obtain with a $5 plastic toilet seat funnel thing designed for this; sterile sample bottles are available at her Dr’s office and she should be lab checked at least every (6) weeks for a UTI.
2) Have her medications checked for side effects involving confusion BY A PHARMACIST. With multiple doctors, one won’t always know what else is being consumed but her pharmacist will. Things like benyldryl , statins for seeking the Holy Grail of low cholesterol, and many other meds, Rx or OTC, that we consider harmless are devastating to a person with dimentia.
3) In many respects, a person with dimentia is no different than ourselves. We have our pride and cherish our independence.
Within (2) years of the initial diagnosis,my wife, then (72) , would have passed every driving test known to man, but she wouldn’t have known where she was going or how to get back. I let her keep her DL, and exchanged the keys she always had in her purse with a set from a car we no longer had but on the same key ring. She was happy and I was happy because she was! She still felt that “she could drive if she wanted to”.
Caretakers, be it spouses, children, siblings , etc have to forego worrying about an official label and just deal with “what is”. Even with a label the odds are there will be no cure if medical or medication issues have been tested for and ruled out.
Once the caretaker and family finally accepts that, there seems to be a calming effect on all (except the patient of course 😂). The job is unbelievably hard but also very very rewarding.
After which, you may have a diagnosis of which particular type of dementia process is going on, and maybe what stage it's in ... or you may get what you already know, 'mild cognitive impairment with some mental health issues.'
If she's obsessively calling her bank to check her balance, is that a sign of an obsessive disorder? or (I hate to even mention this) could it be that someone has in fact been raiding her bank account or in some other way robbing her financially?
This showed up in a friend's family as 'I gave my grandson my creditcard so he could do my grocery shopping, but now there are all these charges I don't recognize'. Some of the charges were at stores where she routinely shopped, so she didn't notice right away that she was spending twice what she expected. Eventually it turned out that the kid (who was in his early 20s) had run into a financial difficulty of his own and had been 'using grandma's card just until he could get on his feet' for about six months! He certainly intended, at first, to pay it right back. But then when he'd run up several thousand dollars in charges he didn't know what to do.
And the only way she found out what was happening, at her advanced age and with some normal-aging cognitive decline, was to phone the bank rather obsessively until finally an officer offered to sit down with her and review the creditcard statements line by line with her.
Sometimes you have little power to change things and they continue on until some tragedy occurs. It’s a terrible situation to be in.
Yes, you should be concerned - but calling the DMV will not help you as people with Dementia can still get a driver's license. My Dad's Heart Doctor told me, in front of Pop, don't be in a hurry to allow him to drive again. Thankfully, we had 1 near miss with a pileup and my Dad from that day on was glad he was no longer driving. I had luckily avoided the pileup and he said his reflexes would not have been as good.
My DH (96) was starting to hallucinate and they took him off Benedryl as it seems it can cause hallucinations in the elderly! Yes, his hallucinations did stop. DH's problem was that his dreams were so real, he thought his dreams were memories. He was very vocal when dreaming and the day he awoke and tried to go outside to help a "woman in distress" - I called the doctor and was told to stop the Benedryl.
It's time to call your mother's primary physician and have her and her medications checked for any needed adjustments.
Even at 96-1/2, my DH had no dementia - his was all age-related memory loss - and even without the dementia, he had sundowners. He scored 25 out of 30 on the dementia cognition test and it was said that was extraordinary at his advanced age.
She has been treated with antipsychotic medication for paranoid schizophrenia which was causing PD like symptoms, so her neurologist had her stop that for 6 months to see if symptoms improve. She also has a family history on her dad's side of Parkinsons AND mental health issues, so that makes it even more complicated.
At her last psychiatric appointment, her doctor said it is very possible that mom could have brain damage from the diabetic coma that does not show up on the scan.
As of right now, it's kind of a watch and see, and she is being treated with other meds to help manage her anxiety/paranoia and muscle twitching/stiffness.
But yes, I believe that there could very possibly be neuro issues that don't show up on a scan. You might get a second opinion and see if any new insight can be gained on how to better manage the symptoms. If it is LBD or some other kind of dementia, it's my understanding that some psych meds (and even certain types of OTC meds) can make it worse, so I can see how important it is to try to find out to know what meds will work best.
Alot of times we know our own parents alot better than the doctors. So, trust your gut.
Thank ya'll for your responses! :)
By her behavior, Mom demonstrates that she has something more than normal aging going on. You are going to have to deal with the symptoms you see, whether you have a label for them or not. I'd start with the driving problem. That puts other people's lives at risk. Contact the DMV, explain that Mom has MCI and that you believe her driving is unsafe. She will probably have to take a test to retain her license.
Look up advice on how to deal with dementia symptoms, and/or ask about specific symptoms on this board. For example, no matter what label we give her, Mom has hallucinations, and it is good for caregivers to have advice on how to react to these.
If you want a second medical opinion, I suggest you find a geriatric psychiatrist. Not that psychiatrists are better than neurologists at this kind of diagnosis, but they do come at it with a slightly different approach.
Is your mother being treated for her psychiatric issues? What kind of a doctor is following that?