My Husband would like me to place my mother, I am not ready for that. My mother is not easy to handle, but we have been doing well. I left my job to care for our child, and in 2017 my mother moved in with us when my father passed away and she was no longer able to stay in her apartment.
My husband wants her out, he wants his space, and has even pulled the he pays the bills card on me. How can I explain to my husband that I want to enjoy all the time my mother has left. I have tried to tell him this but he just does not get it. I do understand dementia is a handful, and thanks to the fact my husband is able to support us on his own income is helpful cause it allows me stay home. I wish for our child to get to know his grandmother in a place she is comfortable with not in a nursing home, he did not have the chance to know his grandfather I do not want to rob him of that.
My mother and our son to get along wonderfully, and my mother loves having him around. I do understand that this was not meant to be a forever thing, but I am not ready to send my mother away. I use to work in a Medicaid SNF I know the horrors that go on. My husband downplays the quality of care they are capable of provide. I could not live with myself if I did that to her knowing full well how they operate.
My family told me to tell him if he wants her out then he has to pay for her placement to a better quality place, but in truth MC is not really the best wherever you go and the cost associated with private care is insane. By no means am I burnt out. I used to do this for a living so I am better equipped to handle it. My husband is the one that is burned out. He wants his home back. My husband is not much of a people person and have never really meshed with my family.
Am I being unreasonable for wanting to spend as much time as humanly possible with my mom and child? Having both of them around has been pure joy for me. Sure she is complicated show me a person with dementia that is not. I understand his feelings, but I do not think it is fair to have him tell me when it is time to place my mother. I get it he just wants it to be the three of us, but that is not how things are right now. I have told him we still have many years together we can make up for lost time, please find some enjoyment. Our son has a chance to spend time with his last living grandparent do not rob that from him.
He was not pleased by this, I get it might be heavy handed but that is what he is doing. I have seen it many times I know many families say their loved ones are doing great in MC, and sure some are. Though they are not around all day. My mother, hell no one deserves to die in such a place if the a family member is able to and willing to put in the work at home. I get it I can do this because of him, but even still that should not give him a reason to tell me how to care for my mother.
Please advise what should I say or do, we have tried to talk it out and he is hard stuck on this.
There is a bit of drama in your question. It is not sending your mother away. You are not robbing your son of getting to know grandma. It is teaching your son what a relationship should be. It is stressful for your husband to have her there. Do you want your son to grow up with his father or his grandma?
It probably is not a skilled nursing facility, that is much later. Have you checked into assisted living facilities, memory care? You think they are terrible places which leads me to believe you have not. There are many very good facilities with quality staff where there is more than one person to take care of her.
Go shopping with a positive attitude.
I would not say it is drama, I just worked in the system I know how it works, I know how staff treat difficult patients. Of course I want my our child to have a father, thing is I would not ask him to place his parent if he was not ready to do so. I have seen what families go through, I have dealt with the tears and broken heart of the LO that is placed. It is something that should be the last resort, as the caregiver I am not even close to my breaking point. I use to deal with far worse at my old job. My mom is a cake walk. I do understand where he is coming from, problem is he is unwilling to even understand where I am coming from.
See a marriage counselor with your husband.
Find a marriage counselor and a therapist for yourself.
Just the tone I get.
Maybe it's time for someone else in your family to take her in?
If you don't want to place your Mother in MC, you probably won't. But it might have consequences on your marriage you don't like.
I agree that marriage counselling may help you both to hear each other & see each other's viewpoint.
Compromise may seem impossible but can work too. I've met people who's LO lives in residential care but is brought home for weekends or every second weekend. (As longs as that is not too unsettling for Mom of course).
By definition, you are thus neglecting your child and your husband.
Mom has been there five years. I think hubby has been more than patient and tolerant with this situation.
After my grandfather died fairly suddenly at 79 my grandmother lived with one of those sons doing all I mentioned above despite her grief. She was 10 years younger.
After many years her health declined and a Greek AL facility was found for her. This was a wonderful place as everyone spoke the language. Sadly after a few years her health declined further and she could no longer walk. She was then placed in a NH facility. I visited her there and left crying each time but she simply needed too much care. She lived to be 98.
My point is that there are circumstances that make sense for an aged parent to live with family but there can come a time when the burden is too great. All your family's needs should be considered. It would be wonderful if each of us could simply pass in our sleep when the day to day life becomes so difficult that we wonder what is the point of all the suffering. Of vourse that is not the case and we must weigh the options that is best for all family members living together.
I learned so much from my grandmother. My mother was not overly maternal. She was a dancer and then she became depressed spending periods of time in bed which confused me. I have wonderful memories of living with my grandmother. I feel her qualities live on in me when I am around my grandchildren. Your husband and child are your future. With the background you mention perhaps you could find a facility you would find decent. It is wonderful you have housed your mother this long but perhaps it is time for a change.
Your comments about residential care for the dependent elderly are by no means universal, but you are allowing yourself to justify making unilateral decisions that will impact on your whole family with no attempt to find a placement that would satisfy you.
You’ve already expressed your displeasure with your husband, but you are actually doing the same thing to him.
Many, MANY of us have experienced situations similar to yours. I slept on the floor next to my mother’s bed for months while we made a horrendously difficult attempt to care for my mother in my home.
Together, my husband (who loved my mother dearly) and I decided that my mother needed more care than we could provide for her, and we found a fine SNF near enough to my home that I could (and did) make daily visits, which I did (twice each Saturday and Sunday) for the 5 1/2 years before she died.
The Bible says “A man shall leave his mother, a woman leave her home….”I
If you want a life with your husband, honor his right to a wife and a mother for his child.
Two things for you to think about:
1) You worked in a Medicaid NH which you thought was not good. How much effort have you put into finding a better one? They are not all the same.
2) Have you considered how you, your son and your mother will live if DH gives up and leaves? DH will pay some child support for your son, but he won’t be obliged to pay for M, and (depending on local laws) he won’t be obliged to pay for you. (Where I am, he wouldn’t pay for YOU, only child support on a scale depending on his income, and certainly nothing for M). Property settlement on divorce will probably force the sale of the ‘family’ home – fair enough, DH needs his share to start the new life without you and M. So where will you go, where will M go, and how much ‘quality time’ will son then be spending with M?
How old is M? What is her life expectancy? How much longer do you expect to keep her at home? What is YOUR sticking point for giving up? What is DH’s sticking point for getting out? How much do you know about divorce? We have had posters who seemed to think that DH would leave (possibly taking the car and the sound system), keep paying the bills, and nothing else would change.
You are stuck in your mind about keeping things the way they are now. They will NOT stay that way indefinitely. If you can't see it, you certainly need a counselor and some legal advice.
And that's assuming husband doesn't sue for custody and win; if he can make a case that living in a home with a person with dementia is not ideal for a child; and he might be able to prove that he can provide a more stable, stress-free environment for his child.
I have to say, I am appalled at the number of LTC workers that come here and say how horrible they are. It's your job to make it not horrible and to provide care, yet you talk about the nightmare care. Think about the part you played in creating that environment for those poor people. I'd be worried about karma too.
If you don't prioritize your marriage, you will have your mom as long as you want. To bad for your husband that he married a selfish, self-centered female, he sounds like he deserves so much better then you.
For anyone on the fence or scared Please do not let others negative experiences deter you from doing what is best for yourself and LO. Do the leg work find the best possible placement and do not second guess yourself. If anything happens it is not your fault they failed not you. Please do not buy into the fear and bad rep medicaid facilities get. Many factors come into play state, temperament of patient, staff, location, size etc... you are important and you deserve a life.
Would you consider looking for a memory care unit where you might take a part-time job, either now or in the near future? - not as your mother's caregiver, but as a member of the team working with others to improve standards. As someone who has worked in the vocation, don't you think it's up to us to try to make it better rather than to fight to the last ditch to keep anyone we care about away from residential care?
I challenge you to put the shoe on the other foot; think about if this was your mother in law, your husband's mother who was suffering from dementia, living in your home and intruding on your privacy for 5 years already, taking up all of your husband's time and attention. And it was you begging him to place her so the two of you, together with your child, could have a normal family life once again. And he was the one who was throwing around wild stories about the horrors of managed care and how he didn't want his son 'robbed' of the opportunity to spend every waking moment with his last living grandparent. But you were feeling otherwise, and robbed of YOUR family time due to your mother in law and her ever-worsening dementia. How would YOU feel? Unheard and like you had no voice in your OWN HOME, I would imagine. Like your marriage came second to his mother, and you'd be correct.
No, he is not the one being 'heavy handed'.......YOU are.
When is enough enough? He's paying all the bills and you are saying that "he has even pulled the he pays the bills card on me." Unless he has a money tree in the backyard, he IS paying all the bills and with inflation being at an all time high, his point is valid. Sorry.
As far as 'your family told me to tell him if he wants her out then he has to pay for her placement to a better quality place', isn't that rich? What about THEY take their mother into THEIR home instead of YOUR husband footing the bill for her placement in a Memory Care ALF which you've already said isn't a great situation anyway?
My mother has lived in a wonderful Memory Care ALF for nearly 3 years now, and in regular AL for 5 years prior, and let me tell you something, she's getting MUCH better care THERE by a team of people working 24/7 than ONE person could EVER provide her in a house setting. Don't kid yourself. And don't put the burden of that cost on your husband either, it's not his burden to bear.
You're looking for justification that your 'my way or the highway' shtick is the proper way to go here, but you won't get it from me or most of us here on the forum; you're barking up the wrong tree I'm afraid. I'm sorry for your husband in this situation that he's married a woman who has no interest in his feelings whatsoever.
In a normal marriage, you'd accommodate your husband's wishes and arrange it so that you and your son would go visit your mother on a regular basis. Not only would she have a whole new social environment in the SNF, but she'd also get to see both of you on a regular basis, making it a win-win situation for ALL involved, not just you.
As to the rest of the family saying that HIS money should be used for this, they are out of this world full of nerve. That is nonsense.
I cannot know how strong your marriage is at this point. I think I would recommend you see a marriage counselor, a psychologist or a licensed social worker to work out some sort of agreement. You may be able to compromise on how much longer Mom will stay with you.
Think about all the people whose parents retired, moved to FL or AZ and only saw their grandkids once or twice a year? It's not the end of the world. You mom can also have a life separate from you.
If you are really struggling with this I also strongly agree that some couples therapy would help. Moving your mom out does NOT mean you don't love her (even though she may not be fond of the idea). It does mean you do love and respect your husband. You won't regret it.
Place her while your son still has good relationship with her.
Hubby’s $$ should not pay for it..this is your mother’s $$ should pay. Your family is worried about inheritance. If she qualifies for Medicaid, the facility can help apply.
I side with hubby . Hugs 🤗
I think you're out of line.
Have you stopped to think about the impact on your son, should your husband decide he's had enough and leaves? How do you think your son is going to feel, when he puts together that dad left mom because mom wouldn't choose dad over grandma? Who do you think he's going to be the most angry with? His "wonderful" relation with grandma might very well fly out the window.
And, suppose you get your wish and keep grandma until the bitter end? I don't know how old your child is. Are you prepared to tell him why you all can't go on vacation like the rest of his friends, because of your mother? Why you can't make his games, concerts, plays, etc. like the rest of the moms because your mom can't be left alone and you can't find a sitter? What about when he wants to invite friends over, but he can't, because grandma is now saying inappropriate things, or behaving in an inappropriate manner? Or maybe he's just too embarrassed with grandma to invite friends over. How are you going to handle HIS stress, when your mother's dementia really worsens, and you're dealing with wandering, incontinence, possible violence? You say you've worked with dementia patients, so this might be "normal" to you, but to a child? It's going to be dreadfully traumatic. Could it be your husband is already seeing shades of this?
My kids were 19 and 23 when my mom got so sick; and her illness was "mild" in comparison to ALZ. Mom lived with us - in her own apartment - since my eldest was 2. And my mother's illness and decline was terribly hard on them, from the fear of seeing their grandma so sick to the resentment - yes, resentment - that our lives as a family were in hiatus while my mom was ill and dying. Her death was very traumatic for them as well. And my kids were adults by that time.
I think you need to *hear* - not just listen to- to your husbands very justified concerns about this living arrangement. And take into consideration that there are 3 other lives here whose well-being have to be taken into consideration as much as your mother.
The system can be improved but to try and sell they were horrible because of a few bad apples is disingenuous.
Some say I should voice my concerns, I do but then you are considered a snitch and at that point you have to work in a toxic environment because you dared to put the patient first above a paycheck. Sure, I have also worked in some wonderful facilities but generally those are few and far in-between at least in NYC. The truth is everyone who has worked or has experience in LTC knows the gritty truth about what really goes on behind the doors. To hide between the few places that are run well is what is truly disingenuous in this conversation.
That said I understand the my husband is at the breaking point, but what he does not understand is placing my mother will be a tall order. She is still physically fit, active, and does not respond well to unfamiliar places and people. Isolation also triggers her anxiety, with covid she will be fairly isolated. I also know placing her then taking her out for the weekends will be a bad call, because under the slim chance she adjusts all that will do is reset her and make the staff's job that much harder because they will have to readjust her. She also has a big mouth, and still has some grasp as how to use her phone, I will be getting calls left and right not like it is will be all that much easier. Placement does not remove the stressers it just slightly adjusts them. She only has SS and Medicaid, I am in a shitty situation cause I know my mother she will not adjust well to placement at least not yet. I will be stressed because my mother will be calling me constantly, and with what I know I will not be able to just to chalk it up to her overexerting I will feel the need to check on it myself. Do you really think having to drag our son around each time my mom has a panic attack is more ideal then having her home with us? What life is that? His father works during the week not like he will be able to watch him while I take care of my mother. Me going back to work also limits our sons interaction with his parents. As I told my husband I am sorry I will not be able to turn off the part of me that will be concerned for my mother, that is something to a degree you have to do when you place someone. You have to have a sense of faith in the staff that they will do right, I do not have that for any place in NYC that has availability. I have reached out to contacts and the ones that are accepting have horrible staff retention and mortally rates.
I am not sorry for what I said about placement. It is my experience, you may have your own but it matters very little cause I bet no one would be saying that if they lived in NYC. If my husband is willing to leave me because I care for my mother so be it, that is something he will have to start. I am willing to work something out but placing my mother is not it. If it was my MIL I would also be against it even if we did not get along. Proud to be a good kid.
I will say for certain in the NYC area our Medicaid eligible facilities
I do hope if he does grow to hate me, when he is older he comes to understand why I had to do what I did. It is not an easy choice, nothing about this disease is, every family has to make difficult choices that we do not know if they are the right choice end of the day all we can do is making the choice that we feel we can live with in that moment and try not to beat ourselves up. When you have seen others pass alone in a NH it does something to you, and by no means if I can avoid I do not want to put my mother through that. No one should ever have to die alone if it can be helped. That is where I am coming from.
What comes of this because of my choice so be it, I am sorry for evening coming her. This was my fault I knew generally many would not understand, but for those that do thank you I appreciate it.
You're emotionally abusing your husband who has no peace in his own home.
He's gonna walk and sue for full custody. And he'll win.
You'll have no financial support and will have to get a job thus being unable to tend to your mother and will end up having to place her.
It's a nightmare scenario you're is creating.
As for him paying?!...So, YOUR family thinks that HE should take money away from your child's future to cover their future inheritance??? Your mother pays, medicaid, and her children pay if they want her to have more perks.
I do not agree with what my family said, and I am not proud of even bringing that up in the first place. Where exactly do you see inheritance. She is on Medicaid and her only source of income is SS? What are they are going inherit? Credit card debt? If she had assets I would have a far easier time placing her because I know of many great private pay entire MC facilities where I do feel my mother would thrive. No aspect of isolation every resident has some form of memory related condition and their safe to resident ratio is fairly small. Problem is quality care costs money, I wish my mother had money I would easily use it to pay for her care in a heart beat.
1. I work in the business and I completely understand how disheartened she feels about it.
2. Among our clients, the ones who are most often afraid of us and afraid of receiving care are those who have worked in care. Not afraid for long! - I'm happy to say, because our team is different from the run of the mill; but it's noticeable how apprehensive they are and how low their expectations are compared to the overall client base.
I've been in my job for over two years now. I have nothing but praise for my co-workers who I know to be good, caring, dedicated people. I have learned that I am not the only one who cares, and I need to be more accepting of not solving every problem. I have also learned that my lifelong habit of being vocal about standards because "I'd rather be right than popular" simply does not work here. If you try it, people will just stop listening to you. They won't have it. They won't be told *by you.* They will think you are an arrogant cow who needs taking down a peg or two and you will achieve nothing to the benefit of your client.
And I work for a *good* service, and our clients are not vulnerable in the way that residents in facilities are, wholly dependent on the staff 24/7.
You can do your best to set an example, you can get as close to the standards you believe in as possible in that moment; but you cannot create the time it takes to deliver excellent care and you cannot just barge in and tell your co-workers to change their attitude, method, insight, understanding and personalities. Much as you might like to!
And actually, it all comes from the top. Good leaders make good teams, because they make standards an aspiration for their people instead of a threat.
Stuck, keep looking for a facility that is well led. Meanwhile, what about additional support at home, or respite care, or anything that might take the pressure off?
Every one I know with a parent with dementia on Medicaid in NYC lives on their own with a 24/7 aid. Did you explore that possibility?
Having a parent with a broken brain on psychotropic meds is not "sedating" them. It is treating the panic, agitation and depression that often accompanies dementia. I was happy to be able to give my mother the gift of "calm" in her last years when no one, not me, not around the clock private paid help was able to ease what appeared to be existential dread.
You really want the EMT to do chest compressions to bring your mom back from a cardiac event? So she can linger until she is a drooling shell of a person who can't swallow? THAT is the reality of where this awful disease leads.
I know that none of us here will change your mind. I just think you have an awful sense of where your priorities should lie.
I really think you need to seek a good marital therapist to work this out.
My husband does not get how dated the system is with dementia care, it was a battle just to get her 4 hours, and even with that her aids sometimes do not even show.
I know the difference, and when I worked that night shift I would take the time to validate their concerns and comfort them as best as possible. People would be amazed how simple things like holding their hand and looking at them in the eyes telling them it will be okay goes to sooth them and relax them. Sometimes I would even take them around for a walk if they are getting restless, and engage with them. You can do other things before going whelp time to get the medication because person in 6A keeps bothering us while we bullshit at the front desk watching tik tok.
If they have a life threatening condition then sure DNR is reasonable, but I always tell people make sure you talk to a doctor about it not the social worker. Discuss their concerns with the doctor, the social worker may not have what is in the best interest of the family in mind. As I mentioned I have seen social workers get families to sign a DNR for someone on short term rehab. I am sorry that should not even come up in the conversation in my opinion. They are here for rehab not to die, this is why I also tell families unless you have ZERO means do not use these SNF for short term rehab. At most they will get 30 min, and unless the person speaks up or has a family member present they will often "forget" about the person and they will miss their time. The system is flawed to the core.
I fall in the camp of positive approach advocated by Teepa Snow. Yes medications play a role and have a use do not get me wrong. I am not denying that. What I am saying is often people are quick to use that as the first course of action when I do not feel that should be the way unless someone is truly expressing harmful behavior.
I have seen someone make the claim that a 82, 4'1 female posed a danger to a 5"11 worker because she kept getting up asking for milk at night.
When I did not back up their claims that she posed a danger I lost all respect from the staff, people would go out of their way to make my job harder because I did not back up their claims which would allow them to have an easier night shift. The quality of worker some of these places hire is jarring to say the least.
I stood firm and took care of my parents while my husband complained.
My three young children pitched in here and there. (My husband refused to help, but paid the bills). He was very antagonistic at times.
For my young children, this experience was extremely beneficial. They became more responsible, caring, capable and empathetic. They developed a priceless grandparent bond.
It was very difficult at times, but I recall these times with great tenderness and have no regrets.
:)
No facility is perfect, not nursing homes, not schools. A very wise friend told me once, vis a vis public vs private school "you can be unhappy for thousands of dollars a year, or you can be unhappy for free".
My mom was in a Medicaid-accepting NH (not in NYC) because we didn't know if she'd run out of money--she lived for 4 1/2"years there. It was not the "best"--they were terrible at communication and I spent many, many hours on the phone, untangling problems.
There is no "easy" way to have a parent with dementia; we sometimes joke here that we are all in the club no one wants to join. Sometimes there are no "good" choices, only the least bad ones. But do gives me thought here to where your loyalties and priorities need to be.
With the breadwinner and the future generation?
I am almost always on the side of placing dementia patients early enough so that they can adjust to new circumstances. You will have to place her eventually--no one person can do this 24/7 in the end stages. Give it some thought and take some tours.
You visit at different times. You encourage family to visit. If you motive things that are unacceptable, you report them to administration. You involve the ombudsman.
The OP also might be hesitant cause I know as family we can encourage others to visit but sooner or later she probably will end up being the one to visit and that will become a chore the traveling and dealing with staff will become a annoying to say the least. I loved my grandma but visiting her every weekend got old very quick as I got older by the time I was in elementary school I remember asking if I could just stay home.
No matter how hard we try for the most part visits start to dry up even for the most diligent. Exceptions to every rule but I can see the fears now if they have lived that.
I think we should stop using custody as a point to persuade the OP cause it could go either way.