My Husband would like me to place my mother, I am not ready for that. My mother is not easy to handle, but we have been doing well. I left my job to care for our child, and in 2017 my mother moved in with us when my father passed away and she was no longer able to stay in her apartment.
My husband wants her out, he wants his space, and has even pulled the he pays the bills card on me. How can I explain to my husband that I want to enjoy all the time my mother has left. I have tried to tell him this but he just does not get it. I do understand dementia is a handful, and thanks to the fact my husband is able to support us on his own income is helpful cause it allows me stay home. I wish for our child to get to know his grandmother in a place she is comfortable with not in a nursing home, he did not have the chance to know his grandfather I do not want to rob him of that.
My mother and our son to get along wonderfully, and my mother loves having him around. I do understand that this was not meant to be a forever thing, but I am not ready to send my mother away. I use to work in a Medicaid SNF I know the horrors that go on. My husband downplays the quality of care they are capable of provide. I could not live with myself if I did that to her knowing full well how they operate.
My family told me to tell him if he wants her out then he has to pay for her placement to a better quality place, but in truth MC is not really the best wherever you go and the cost associated with private care is insane. By no means am I burnt out. I used to do this for a living so I am better equipped to handle it. My husband is the one that is burned out. He wants his home back. My husband is not much of a people person and have never really meshed with my family.
Am I being unreasonable for wanting to spend as much time as humanly possible with my mom and child? Having both of them around has been pure joy for me. Sure she is complicated show me a person with dementia that is not. I understand his feelings, but I do not think it is fair to have him tell me when it is time to place my mother. I get it he just wants it to be the three of us, but that is not how things are right now. I have told him we still have many years together we can make up for lost time, please find some enjoyment. Our son has a chance to spend time with his last living grandparent do not rob that from him.
He was not pleased by this, I get it might be heavy handed but that is what he is doing. I have seen it many times I know many families say their loved ones are doing great in MC, and sure some are. Though they are not around all day. My mother, hell no one deserves to die in such a place if the a family member is able to and willing to put in the work at home. I get it I can do this because of him, but even still that should not give him a reason to tell me how to care for my mother.
Please advise what should I say or do, we have tried to talk it out and he is hard stuck on this.
Everyone loved them very much, and everyone came to the conclusion that this would be how they would help versus blowing up their marriages.
You are wholly being supported by him. In addition he's been supporting her for half a decade now. You are not in the position to issue ultimatums--he is. And frankly, it doesn't sound like something he came up with last Tuesday and will blow over. It sounds like he's been thinking along these lines for awhile.
If he pursues divorce, you could lose this house even if you own half. You would almost certainly have to work. In NYC? It'd probably be joint custody meaning three days one week, four days the next, not raising the kid.
The fact your hubs put up with this for five years indicates he's not just some misogynistic uncaring man--rather the opposite--but we all have limits. He is expressing those, and frankly you ignore them at your peril and your child's too.
OP doesn’t realize the wrath of Hades that if hubs hires a real Pitt-Bullie type of divorce attorney as to just what they can do. If they own a home, his atty files for a segregation of assets to happen & with time limit. So 90 -120 days to come to equitable settlement on joint property or placed up for sale. So if she wants to stay in the home, she has to buy it from hubs at FMV. She has no job so not getting lending. If they have a ton of savings that might get split (but his atty may ask for $ placed into educational trust) & she clear outs her 401k but unless she starts working again FT she’s losing house. And no home means APS gets called in to deal with the vulnerable adult position her 66 yr old mom is now in. If she goes back to work, who then takes care of a mom “who cannot be left alone”? If OP uses her moms SS mo income to float household expenses, or moms credit to buy or rent, hubs atty can ask APS to look into her taking advantage of a vulnerable adult…. will not be pretty.
His attorney can get her to pay 50% of all the sons educational costs…. so 50% of tuition, uniforms, camp, fees, dental work, etc. If hubs gets custody, then on her parental weekends she has to provide comparable living, so if hubs has his son in his bedroom, she has to do the same. This is why often noncustodial spouse will have their kids weekends / summer be at a hotel or a resort as the comparable living situation does not have to happen if they r staying away.
If she asks son to do any oversight for grandma, his atty can use that against her. I’m not talking kid and grannie watch TV or share a meal. It’s more that she asks kid to do oversight, like telling kid to make sure grandma take her meds or leaves kid alone with wandering risk grandma. His atty can ask APS & CPS to open a investigation. For a pittbull atty it’s like doing a whack-a-mole… constantly filing something to haul her butt back into court or document or getting others, like APS & CPS, to get her having to be accountable to them. So she folds.
OPs mom is a mere 66; living with them FT now 5 years.
OP posted “she’s extremely healthy, no diabetes / hypertension, cannot b left alone…, is wandering risk…., difficulty w redirection”
OP & hubs maybe mid 30’s early 40’s w kid elementary age or so.
Hubs is as per OP “at his breaking point”;
He has a well paying job in NYC.
They don’t live in a vacuum, there will b women who have him on their radar. None are going to play nice about him paying for or bothering w a MIL or ex wife beyond what a court requires. And there’s going to be one who is absolutely all in having the son become a part of their new family.
if OP wants to stay married, she needs to get them into marriage counseling, be willing to have her mom use her $ to have caregivers come in regularly asap & look into moms LTC placement in senior living situation. Maybe then hubs will stay; otherwise imo he & his wallet r gonna bail & she’ll be destitute.
how long will your mom live ? When she becomes totally incontinent with both bowels and urine, what happens ?
When things become too much to handle and ultimately you HAVE to place your mom… where will your marriage be ? Will your marriage be gone? Did you marry your husband or your mom ?
when my husband’s family started the “ have to take care of them in their home” since we were retired we were the obvious choice… I told my husband absolutely not, I didn’t marry him to become his parents caregiver, clean up diarrhea off the floor( yes , who did my husband call when that happened ?) altering my marriage , my retirement … finally FIL placed after ER visit.. and much family destruction, MIL placed .. took a toll on my marriage ..
I understand your husbands point of view…
when I say look down the long road , will you be alone?
I would be searching for an appropriate place , visit as much as you want…
You are saying your husband has put up with your Mum living in the family home for coming on 5 years.
You are saying he is the soul provider for your family.
You are saying he has reached the end of his rope.
He is telling you he needs his home back.
He is telling you he is feeling like his needs are not being met.
You say I love my Mum and feel it is ok to put her first over your husband.
You say Mum can be a handful.
So basically you are saying your husband and his feelings do not matter, he has no say in his home, his marriage, his family?
I expect you will be a single parent sooner than later.
You say that you do not like care facilities.
You say that you want your child to spend time with Granny.
What is stopping you from placing Mum, and going to visit her with your child every day? You will be able to oversee her care, your child will still spend time with Granny and you can save your marriage.
We got really worried when mom started wandering from home and had no choice. Even living with family this could occur. I hope this gal thinks of what's best for her mother and not herself.
Of course that's not the right answer. If you want out of your marriage, that's one thing; you shouldn't die a martyr on the caregiver cross. But if you want to remain happily married, then it's time to find another place for mom. And if the siblings don't like it, that's too bad.
Now go do the right thing.
You said they told you to tell him what? That he is selfish? That he has no right to want something else? A lot of families like" the way things are" because they don't have to do anything. Many years ago I had a coworker who was overly focused on her ailing mother. She was not there for her family. Completely ignored them during her mother's final years. To this day her kids hate her and her husband is long gone. You are not the solution to everything as Beatty likes to say.
But... HASN'T he been understanding for the last 5 years, though? For five years he understood, and supported you - that's a LOT of support. When is it his turn? When DOES he get a say in his own living situation, marriage, and family life? How many more years does he have to put his own needs on hold? How long do you? And your son? At the very least, you should work out a timeline with a firm date for when this is going to end. Or it's going to end itself, the hard way.
I agree with others that perhaps you are the one who is not able to see the other side and that now it's time to consider your husband and son and decide what and who to prioritize. I know it's incredibly hard. I have been there, and no matter what you do, you feel pulled in several directions at once.
But your mother has a great chance of thriving in a care facility. Maybe we're just lucky, but my mother, who is still youngish, healthy, and spry, with moderate Alzheimer's is in a wonderful facility with amazing caregivers who treat her so well and love her dearly. She does have behavioral disturbances, but they know how to manage her, they involve me and communicate with me regularly, and they are able to get medications adjusted so much more easily and quickly than I ever could because there is a doctor available regularly and nurses on staff. My mom quite a handful, too, but she is doing far better in her facility than she ever did in her own home or living with us, which she did for awhile. We have kids at home and there was absolutely no way we could keep her here long term while prioritizing our kids and marriage. Placing Mom was the best thing we could have done - for all of us, including her. I never would have guessed that, based on her behavior before, but she's doing better than I could have ever expected, and her caregivers are truly wonderful, loving, knowledgeable, and competent people. Great places do exist.
I do fall in the camp of aging in your home is best but it is a luxury many cannot afford. The OP is trying to do something only a select few are capable of doing and while commendable the OP should come to terms and operate within her means. For her to find placement she has to accept the flaws with LTC and the risks that come with it. This fact is easier for those not involved in the back end and have not seen the darker shades of a certain job. Everyone probably has their horror stories for the field they are in and probably cringe a little when people try to put a positive spin on their profession. This is life when you work in a field you just naturally become hyper critical.
One factor I think many of us are forgetting that often does not get discussed. The toll placement puts on the family member that placed them. We tell people not to feel guilty but that is hard if your LO does nor adjust well to their new situation. Visits become less about quality time and more about redirecting them when they ask to go home, potentially chasing down staff to get questions and concerns addressed.
It is unreasonable to expect someone to go every single day to see a LO in MC especially now with covid and with a child. I do not envy the OP many here including myself are making it seem like this is an easy choice future or past. What we have to remember is the present choices define who we are in the future. If this choice of the OP leads her to become guilt ridden the husband and her child very well may lose their mother either way.
My family was never the same after we had to place our grandma. Holidays become lifeless, the warmth was taken away, resentment permeated the air because one blame the other. This is not a binary choice has many degrees that we as a general reader are not aware of. As many said I hope the OP seeks outside professional help. Cause OP has to make a choice that will leave scars, question is which set of scars is she able to live with.
Clearly you are a kind and wonderful person. Your mother is lucky to have such a caring daughter who wants to do right by her.
It's been five years though. How long is your husband supposed to sacrifice for your mother? How many years does his home have to double as a memory care facility for his MIL?
Your man and your child are the priorities here. There are beautiful MC and AL facilities.
Now, I've worked in elder homecare almost 25 years. Many of my clients had to go into facility placement. You having worked in a SNF yourself know how to guarantee someone gets good care. It's because the family comes around all the time. It's because they stay on admnistrators and nursing staff night and day to make sure. When my father was in an SNF after a stroke, I had to on several ocassions reduce some of the care staff to tears. I did not care. They were being paid enough to decently care for my father and they were going to. They knew my All-Seeing eye was everywhere at all times. I knew CNA's in his facility and if you take care of them, they help you out. It's not easy to have to be like that, but you'll do it for your mother the same as I did for my father.
It's time to place your mother. Your husband is growing to resent you and her. That's never good. I am my mother's caregiver. The constant neediness, gaslighting, manipulating, instigating, and her lifetime of mental illness gone untreated is pretty much what broke up my good marriage to my second husband. He was a good guy. Patient and very generous too. He couldn't deal with it anymore and we divorced. I live a lonely, impoverished life in my now elderly mother's house as her caregiver. I don't tolerate a second of abuse or ill behavior from her and she keeps it mostly in check because she's needy. She knows she'll be ignored and will get nothing from me if she starts up, but still it's not a good life. It's not a good life at all.
Please, don't let my life of lonely, isolated sadness become yours and it will if you don't place your mother soon. Your husband will go and rightly so because he knows he's not your priority. Your kid will get a lot of time with grandma, but he'll be growing up in a broken home because he won't have his dad living with him. Dad will be a guy he sees on weekends and summer vacations.
Your husband and son are more important than keeping your mother at your house. You can still be a good caregiver to her if she's placed. You become her advocate then.
I fail to see how such efforts will, furthermore, ameliorate the central crisis here.
Your husband is burned out. He might have thought that he'd be in this for a max two years, not five, and based on how you talk about her physical fitness, perhaps 10.
Five years is more than enough.
Move toward a care plan and milestones.
I've had two elders placed in public SNFs in NYC. Both were private-pay worthy. You bet it took tons of phone calls and string pulling for that to happen. You should start early, like now.
But you have to mean it.
If you do, then DH might give the situation more time. But if he thinks it's a stalling tactic, it's one more reason to get him to file. From there you can count on money for first your child, then maybe some for you, and absolutely none for his MIL. This is after you spend like six grand on lawyers.
Bottom line OP, the man feels like a derivative nanny-slave and he's paying for everything including your mother. He'll be under no such obligation should he leave, and this could leave you with spending down from your community assets money for lawyers and all this. He is going to leave unless you get on the same page with him.
That kinda says it all.
I think a forward-thinking spouse may see that he may get the same Exceptional TLC — if and when he needs it.
She knew that there was no one who could give up a career to care for her.
She got that all 3 of us were a united front and couldn't be manipulated.
We consulted with geriatrics docs and geriatric psychiatrists about her extreme anxiety and got it medicated judiciously. My mother was not "sedated". She was calm.
Even with extreme aphasia from a stroke she said to me one day, after we'd had her taken via medical transport to an appointment: "That was fine. I used to be so worried. I figured, what could happen?"
(This was a woman who was hysterical after she took a gifted Limo ride to her sister's home, 30 minutes away).
I guess I just don't get why people insist on sacrificing their careers, marriages and children to their parents when there ARE options available. Kind of like not taking advantage of insulin.
hugs!
seriously, these options aren't available everywhere in the world.
it's simply true: some parts of the world have bad facilities, some have good facilities.
even in the same city, you can have bad + good facilities.
there are varying degrees of good/bad facilities.
i happen to live somewhere, where - all - the facilities are awful.
(i'm not talking about my entire country)
(i mean, where i live)
so -- not everyone has these options.
fortunately, for my LOs, we can hire in-home care.
and in my particular case, even if the facilities would be wonderful, we'll keep my LOs home. my LOs are extremely happy waking up every day in their home.
if necessary, my LOs are willing to go to a facility. in our family, we all understand it can be necessary.
----
my point is just, that this "facility-option" is actually not always an option for everyone. depending on where you live, there might be absolutely - no - good facility. in such a case, if it's necessary to place your LO, then unfortunately they must go to a bad facility.
1) You worked in a Medicaid NH which you thought was not good. How much effort have you put into finding a better one?
2) How old is M? What is her life expectancy? How much longer do you expect to keep her at home? What is YOUR sticking point for giving up? What is DH’s sticking point for getting out? How much do you know about divorce?
It’s interesting to see which posters push the same line over and over again, with fixed opinions not facts.
@MarageMcKen Yes, I have looked, no I have no seen every Medicaid NH in NY so I am sure I may have missed a few gems that is why I appreciate what Barb has done and will make the calls on Monday. I have reached out to my contacts we are trying to see if it is possible to get a Medicaid bed in one of the higher end MC facilities with smaller resident sizes as a favor.
My mom is 66, based off her health and activity outside of a major life altering event such as a fall, stroke, heart attack she easily could live to 90. Vitals are all normal, no hypertension, no diabetes, no high cholesterol, her diet is mostly plant based. She is extremely healthy, just suffers from memory related issues. Reason why getting hours through Medicaid has been rough. Her working memory is shot, but everything else is pooling from long term / muscle memory. I do not know what would be my breaking point, my husband is at his breaking point. He is a loving and considerate man, his words he is not much of the paternal type. I know very little about divorce, but I am not overly concerned if he does file for it I will cross that bridge. Most likely since we live in NYC it will be joint and I will just have to take care of mom and myself to a degree. Divorce just replaces the problems with a different set of problems. He is a logical person, I doubt he will do such a thing. It would require him to adjust his work schedule, might mean less pay. Man does enjoy his warhammer so doubt that will happen (expense hobby) he is wonderful awkward around our child it is adorable to see but man freaks outs at the tiniest of things. He would be a hot mess trying to watch our son alone, and I doubt he wants that.
Worse case I will cash out my 401k to buy myself some time to get back on my feet. In that case our son will have limited access to both parents so not exactly sure what people think divorce will solve outside of the shared space issue.
I love my family, I am doing the best I can within this terrible situation. This disease is not pleasant nor easy. By no means was I trying to downplay the efforts and lengths families go through when it comes to placing LO's but as I mentioned in the OP I am not ready. She is young, if she was older "maybe" I have a far easier time. We had an older gentlemen in the legal department for one of the places I worked. He told me something I would never forget. "When I was younger I was pro NH, now that I am older I am deathly afraid of them."
Sure it is an option, and I am sure diamonds exist, yes I am being overly ridge and unrealistic with my expectations. I am the same way with child care, I do not trust anyone else to do besides me. My standards of care differ from many, I know we are underpaid, overworked but that is the job and for whatever reason we made the choice to work this job. As such we should do everything in our power to go above and beyond to do the best possible job. Sure it is difficult, time consuming, and feels like we do not have enough hours in the day. My belief is all I can do is try and do the best I possibly can with the hand I was dealt.
I understand what I am saying may be seen as fear mongering, and once again by no means am I trying to sell short the wonderful places many have found. I will make a better effort to be more open minded.
It is just touring these places are depressing you pick up on all the short comings, and short cuts people take which are unsafe. When I see the NH riddled with patients in wheel chairs awaiting to be taken to rehab but since they are short staffed they are unable to get them down. When you hear the person calling to be changed but everyone is running around and 20 mins go by and the person still has no been changed. When someone walks up to you asking for a blanket or something to eat. I get into I wanna fix in mode and wish to help but I cannot.
You aren't really in the middle by thinking you have a right to not work because you want to do one on one with your child, let alone your mother. That's a complete privilege given to you by your husband, and you don't seem to be caring about compromise that could involve Mom not being with you.
You are literally choosing Mom over your marriage. If a bunch of Internet randos can get that, then so does your H. He won't be subsidizing your lifestyle if you can't compromise
>Would your Mom be upset if she thought you were jeopardizing your marriage because our are refusing to consider placement of her in a facility? Most parents want their children to live their soar and live their own lives.
> Would you be willing to take your in laws into your home also if the situation should the situation arise?
> Future time is not necessarily granted to us. There may or may not be time for you and your husband to make up what you are missing today. At your mother's current age and health she could easily live another 20 years. Your husband is twenty years older as are you and your child! You will see the world differently. Going to Disneyland when you are 60 is fun but it is difinitely different than going when you are 30. Different eyes, different capacities.
Just ideas and question for you to consider.
I can think of a few I knew who spent most days with their parent/s helping, or just hanging out. Or having Mother over to dinner every night.
Or maybe like the original Lucille Ball sitcom where she is always hanging out with her bestie & seems to have a stronger/better emotional relationship with her, then with her husband.
Not judging. Sometimes one relationship doesn't provide everything we need.
But if the OP really did have to choose which to live with, Husband or Mother, which would she choose? Not *should* & all that, but WANT.
I get he has a larger amount of say because he is able to provide for us, but it is not like I am unable or unwilling to work we just came to an agreement that me killing myself and the stress was not worth the pay. I love being a stay at home mom, but if I had to work I would work. Simple logistics he makes nearly three times as much as I did. I had no reason to work outside of the fact I wanted to, but yes the stress of the job was getting to me and I was taking baggage home with me. So we came to an agreement, if I had know he was going to try to use it as leverage I would have said nah.
The OP's mom is in her 60s, diagnosed with this awful disease for at least 5 years. She was probably displaying symptoms before since she lived with her husband and could not be left alone after he died.
Meaning that the OP was still quite young when her mother was found to have dementia.
Still, this is so much more a tragic a situation that it already appeared to be when you posted.
Please get your mom on every waiting list possible for the places you know of that are smaller census. Your mom has years and miracles do happen. I remember a bunch off years ago, a friends dad was in need of a place and a few phone calls later, he was in a "good" place in Bensonhurst.
As I'm sure you know, the easiest way to place is from hospital to rehab. Keep that in mind.
From a fellow Brooklyn-ite, ((((((hugs)))))))).
I'm curious, do you plan to homeschool your child? That would add a layer of complication, but maybe you are a ways off from that decision.
Yes, paying all the bills and allowing their elderly, needy in-laws with dementia to move into the house means that person is exempt from having to help with their care needs.
Keeping a roof over their heads, food in their bellies, the lights and heat on so no one's starving while they sit the dark and freeze, and being fine with the other spouse contributing nothing financially is how ACaringDaughter's husband helped out with the caregiving needs of her parents.
find a nice care home close to home so you and your son can visit whenever you wish.
That is incorrect. My sister is in AL, memory wing with limited access to an enclosed courtyard because she wandered away. On the fourth time is when she was moved from her open access apartment to the memory care wing. So there are most definitely AL centers that cater to wanderers.
if you are close to the nursing home they will contact you and you will be able to be there, also when the time is approaching you know. So if you do place your mum (it’s going to happen eventually-the aggression,wandering hiding poo everywhere- that’s NOT going to be a nice home for either your son or husband to live in) you will be able to visit immediately.
Its a very tough decision but you have to do what’s right for the family you created.
As others have said, your first duty is to your husband. If the family living situation is making him uncomfortable, listen to him. It's his home first and he has expressed his need for privacy.
Find a good care facility for your mother. Visit her often. Take your son along. Call her when you can't visit. But, unless there are other issues that make you want to dissolve your marriage, don't insist on having your way in this matter.