I think my MIL needs to wear Depends all day, but my husband needs to be the one to tell her that. What should I do?

Communication is the key...Do some research about her condition and then bring it to your husband and let him know her behavoir and you both come up with a solution to the problem, hopefully it will be her just wearing depends rather than trusting that she will remember use the toilet and not forget that the toilet seat is down. And that in itself is a problem when someone has to hurry and go to the bathroom :)

I suspect some of your comments may have been taken out of context. Sounds like "...I am not allowed to say anything." relates more to MIL than husband. MILs are like that sometimes... :-( Even our own mothers can be like that too!

As for the comments about this being his "castle", so to speak, hopefully we have all misconstrued what was written. Since you have several times now indicated that he would indeed do the clean up, hopefully we were wrong!

I think either setting a regimen for toileting or at least following her to the bathroom to ensure all "goes well" in there is the best way to handle this. She may balk at it, but perhaps you can just say you are going there yourself or to shoo the cat away, any excuse that works... I also figure that the litter box is in the bathroom - many people put them there, so it is the least offensive place and the floor is a bit safer if they have accidents (hence have to leave the door to the room open and the lid down.)

If you are aware that perhaps you speak with a bit of harshness, work on that. Be firm, but calm. You can get more bees with honey! Matter of fact statement to ask her to do whatever, including asking if she needs to go. It is so easy to fall into harshness with dementia, esp when they tended not to listen to you before. Take a deep breath and try to remain calm.

I don't think having her wear depends all day should be an issue, but it should be more to protect from accidents or a little leakage rather than replace toileting. As noted, we just took mom's undies away and replaced them with the briefs.

Do come back and let us know how things are progressing. Avoiding messes? Hubs taking on the clean up? Having a calmer relationship with MIL?

Sorry if you already said & I missed the answers..

Do you live with your MIL permanently?

If so, are you her designated caregiver?

If no & no, this is not your responsibility.

If yes & yes, I would arrange a medical review to get advice on the continence issue. Even better if there is a specialist Continence Nurse service.

A continence nurse was an amazing resource for my relative. Said if 'continence was no longer possible - containment was the new goal'. Advised which products, the fit, how to introduce them, when to change & how to keep as much independence as was possible. When independent changing of pad/pants was no longer possible, what to do then.

This issue becomes easier with the right advice

People with Parkinsons develop problems with depth perception and urge incontinence because the disease messes with brain transmitters. Your best bet is to educate your husband and you can find the information on the Parkinson's Foundation website.

From personal experience, keep her out of depends as long as you can, put her on a 2 hour bathroom schedule, limit fluid intake at night and have your husband discuss it with the doctor because there is a medication that starts with an M she can be put on that helps with the urges. Do not ever keep kombucha in the fridge where she thinks she can drink 6 in a day because you will be cleaning up for days.

It's not the business of anyone here to criticize your marriage. Apparently things have worked out well for you most of the time, but this is a problem that needs both of you co-operating...a joint effort and, after all, she is HIS mother.
Maybe if you appeal to him, asking that he help you with this, explaining how difficult things have become for you trying to maintain a clean and sanitary environment, maybe, just maybe, he'll be willing to take some action. Remind him that she will listen to him better than to you. You may have to reiterate this more than once. Buy her a package of Depends or similar adult diaper (something that resembles underwear) for daytime use and ask him to give them to her. He won't need to explain how or when to use them. You can do that.
Then, as suggested, take her to the toilet every 2 hours.

Imho, perhaps she needs to see her opthamologist as she is not seeing that the toilet lid is closed. That's just one thought. Until your husband either does the cleaning of the home or speaks to her about the issue, nothing may be corrected.

My mom was the same way. I kept buying new underwear and cleaning up. My step dad was no help talking to her. She was embarrassed at a store one day. She started realizing that she needed the depends. She fought with me but finally gave in. Just tell her it's normal to have issues and even younger people have the same thing. I wore some to Show her it wasn't that big of a deal. I had surgery and didn't want to embarrass myself. She is a grown woman and should take care of her business. You want to help her with this. We tried several brands but only one really helped. Depends silhouette.

KaleyBug has sent a reply saying “Peeing under the lid means her bladder is probably dropping close to protruding. This can cause front shooting Pee.” I’ve heard of a prolapsed uterus, and perhaps a prolapsed bladder is similar. This should be taken to a doctor for an examination. I think it can be treated in the early stages, more easily than later on when it requires sutures to hold the organs inside the body. This is a health issue that your husband should find easier and more compelling to think about.

If an appointment is made, write a letter to the doctor beforehand to explain all the issues, including your husband’s feelings about what both you and his mother should do. Getting more information to the doctor means that the doctor is likely to give more information and directions about what needs to happen. People listen to doctors, and it might be the best way to get the problem out in the open and dealt with properly.

If she is going to the bathroom, pulling down her undies and peeing/pooping on the toilet lid and/or floor, what difference will wearing Depends make? She can still get to the bathroom and pull them down, and still make the mess. About the best you can hope for if she would wear them is it will protect other areas of the house (chairs, floors, etc) if she leaks a bit or has an accident on the way to the bathroom.

When we decided it was time for mom to wear these, we just took away ALL her undies and put the disposables in their place (along with some in other accessible places.) No discussion. I can't say if staff were asked or had to answer, the topic never came up (she is in MC.)

Mom's problem wasn't using the toilet properly, but rather being unable, sometimes, to get undressed fast enough and so she would sometimes get it on the carpet in her room, resulting in extra charges for "deep" cleaning.

Perhaps rather than just leaving the mess for hubs to see/deal with, which he doesn't deal with, take him there, show him and ask him what HE thinks needs to be done so that YOU are not cleaning all that up every day. Don't let him walk away without a better response.

As for MIL, if at all possible, what others have suggested might work better - regular intervals suggest or take her to the bathroom, ensure the seat is up and let her do her biz. She sounds difficult, so perhaps she will balk at you attempting this - then it goes back to hubs. If he isn't willing to discuss or come up with REASONABLE alternatives/suggestions, then perhaps the other suggestions made about taking a min-vaca (or longer) might be the way to go. Nothing like being thrown into the pool, without a lifeguard! Sink or swim buddy! See you in a week or two...

I currently have 2 cats that I need to "toilet" - one is approaching 22 yo, and has forgotten what a litter box is... :-O The other, it's a long story, but as long as I put them in a large cat playpen with litter boxes on the bottom level, they use it! Harder to guesstimate timing for the old girl, but the other I do first thing in the morning, later afternoon and before bed - works well for #1... a bit more difficult to guess when #2 might be due... Sometimes she has to stay in the pen longer, if it's been over a day.

In your post, you wrote: "She wears depends to bed. I suspected she wet her bed." This initially wasn't an issue for mom, but when she got her second UTI (first one resulted in extreme sun-downing), it resulted in nighttime bed wetting. She has the max strength briefs and a bed pad, but she would SOAK everything! Once the UTI was treated, it was better, but still had some accidents. We also use a max strength pad inside the briefs. You might want to test for UTI (they can cause the most odd symptoms in elders, esp those with dementia!!!) Adding a pad in the briefs may help too. Bed pads would only work if it stays in place and she is on it...

Mom, 97 with dementia and no longer mobile, still will ask to be taken to the bathroom. Her big thing now is wanting new briefs if she dribbled a little in it! Nurse asked for more pads for daytime use, so we don't go through 5 briefs/day! They can just change the pad.

Final thoughts: "According to the bible, the man is the head of the home. His mom, his home. I try to do things his way." Just because you follow the bible and it says he is head of the home doesn't mean you have to be a slave. What exactly does trying to do things "his way" mean? You leave the mess for him to clean up and he ignores it, so you clean it up? Sorry, but marriage is a partnership, not a slave/master relationship. It may never be 50-50, but it also shouldn't be 99-01. {Curious - do your marriage vows include this "relationship" AND taking care of his mother, while he skates?} Sorry, but I wouldn't tolerate being treated like a slave or servant.

Is there another female in the family that could encourage her to wear them? I think the subject is probably uncomfortable for a son to tell his Mom, and embarrassing for her as well. Perhaps you could tell her the doctor said she should wear them so she doesn't get a UTI? It's a delicate situation.

"I did tell him. He suggests that he do all the cleaning."

Great job! Let him do ALL the cleaning. You, go get yourself a chamber pot for your own use, so you don't have to use the only bathroom in the house until your husband cleans it up.

Don't you go cleaning up the bathroom again until your husband decides he has enough and makes changes to improve the situation.

For clean up on the occasions when I have diarrhoea, on the farm I have a bidet. Here in Alice I put a plastic bowl on the toilet seat or on a small low table, and stand astride over it. Tip the bowl down the toilet when finished. It’s much less trouble than stripping off for a shower and then redressing. Not cleaning up properly is likely to lead to UTIs, so this is a useful trick.

i think it's time for ml to go in a nursing home because it's not going to get better with dementia good luck

I totally agree with Cherokee! There is more to the story than the mother in law wearing diapers and a kitty.

I have empathy for the OP and the mother in law. I don’t have much empathy for the husband other than I think that he could benefit from seeing a therapist for marriage counseling.

I realize the OP is trying to please her husband in her own way. She has been brainwashed and misled. She needs help to become deprogrammed from this toxic environment.

The question becomes, is she trying to please him out of love and respect for her husband and her Christian beliefs or is she doing things to ‘keep the peace’ because she is afraid of the consequences if she doesn’t?

Her definition of love and respect for her husband is slavery. She needs a wake up call that slavery ended long ago!

Lord, the cat is not a major issue here! The cat is caught in the middle of the chaos. Why did she bring a kitty into an already stressful environment? Why not close the door to the bathroom? Seems weird to me.

Oh, I am sure the OP loves her cat. She is growing tired of the responsibilities of caregiving and who wouldn’t be. All of them are suffering! Even the self centered husband. He doesn’t know that he doesn’t know and doesn’t care to learn because he has the easiest situation in the house! Unfortunately, he will not experience true joy and harmony of a healthy marriage if he continues to behave selfishly.

What a sad, sad story.

How many of you believe if there were no cat or mother in law, this couple would live happily ever after? I don’t!

Are any totally ‘submissive’ wives truly happy? I don’t think so. Successful couples walk side by side in life. The husband doesn’t lead the way and the wife follows behind on a short leash.

All of us have ups and downs in life. This isn’t the normal ups and downs that everyone experiences that are worked out. This is a dysfunctional situation all around.

To start with getting another pet was not a good idea. You have an elderly person with dementia and Parkinson's disease who got surprised by the new kitten jumping, which indicates to me that you keep the cats' litter box in the bathroom. Find another spot in your home for it because the toilet lid seat can no longer be kept down. If your mother-in-law is pissing and crapping all over bathroom because she forgets to lift the toilet seat lid up, then common sense should tell you to just leave it up all the time. She should be in a pull-ups style Depends during the day, but at night an actual diaper because it will make an easier situation for all of you. Your husband probably is avoiding having this conversation with his mother because he's embarrassed and she is too. So you're going to be the one. Speak plainly to her and if she denies or won't listen to you, then show next time there's a mess all over the place or you smell a load in her pants, show it to her. Then bring it up about using a pull-up during the day. If this doesn't work talk to your husband. Make him understand that you're not willing to clean up piss and crap all over the place because his mother is stubborn. Leave the mess for him and he will be more than happy to convince his mom to start using the pull-ups.

Some people's comments indicate they believe hubby doesn't want to have hygiene conversation with his mom. Based on what I read, what you're saying is she won't listen to you and hubby is the only one who can tell her what to do. (Has nothing to do with him not wanting to discuss an issue with her, but more about he makes the rules around the house.) If he makes the rules and she abides by what he says, then you need to stand up to him and tell him what the rules are that he should be explaining to her.

You also say he doesn't have a clue what you do. That's your fault. If you are cleaning up so quickly that he has never seen these messes, then you likely do the same for him. When there is poop/pee all over a toilet on a regular basis, trust me, he has seen it. He just happens to know that, miraculously, it disappears without him having to lift a finger. It's time to have a chat with him. What if he became incontinent? Are you going to allow him to just pee on the furniture or on the floor because he thinks he has a Molly Maid to follow him around all day cleaning up messes? You'll be in for a heavy workload if that's the plan. Even if you didn't have pain of your own, you should get more respect from him in regard to doing something to remedy a problem rather than making it your job to clean.

In a comment below, you said "The depends doesn't stop accidents. I already have a cloth under the rim because she pees under the rim, down the front, and onto the floor. A taped puppy pad on the floor helps." -- I have no idea how a seated woman can pee under the toilet lid and down the front of the toilet UNLESS she is not sitting on the entire seat. Go in with her and make her sit herself further back on the seat. This is another example of you 'assuming' your husband has no idea about the messes she is making. I mean, he doesn't even wonder why there is a cloth under the rim and a puppy pad in front of the toilet??? That doesn't make sense. He knows what's going on.

Maybe ask yourself why you would make an excuse for him. How many messes of his own have you been bending over backwards to clean up for him? Someone else said you consider him to be the head of the household (I didn't see your comment about that). Certainly, you have to know that a head of a household is also respectful of those in his household. Being head of household does not mean you have the right to demean or 'use' those in your household.

Stop doing all the cleaning.
Its his mother.

No, he has no idea because you do the work.
Stop making yourself a doormat.
If you continue to do this behavior, husband's and his mother's behavior will remain the same. Only YOU can change your behavior and the chips fall where they may.

Learn that you deserve respect and how to set boundaries to get it.

I am quoting your post of a few hours ago: "I have fibromyalgia and depression. According to the bible, the man is the head of the home. His mom, his home. I try to do things his way."

Now if this is truly your interpretation of the biblical passage and this is your belief, I'm not sure if many of the people here will be able to help you solve your issue because it seems obvious the "his way" is to leave the incontinence problem to you. He knows you will eventually clean it up, as you always do, so he waits for you to do it.
From a medical standpoint I have to agree with what many others have indicated. Adult pants should not take the place of appropriate toileting and in well run (and well staffed) facilities it does not. Very much like training your kid or your puppy; toileting is recommended every two hours. Of course, sometimes they will forget to toilet themselves and you will still clean up a mess (and unlike kids and dogs...... the elder person is not going to get better at this) but it's needed to combat skin breakdown which leads to all sorts of other nasty issues.
I wish you peace and luck on your journey.

It really isn't the goal of an online forum to change your mind culturally or religiously, but when you post:

"I have fibromyalgia and depression. According to the bible, the man is the head of the home. His mom, his home. I try to do things his way."

...I would have to ask you: isn't there someplace in the bible that the man should be respecting his wife even as he makes some of those decisions as the head of the home?

I'm sure it's difficult with one bathroom to leave a mess, so maybe it's time for you to leave for a hotel until the bathroom magically cleans itself. Would he also be in charge of you at the hotel - - are you "allowing" him to be in charge of you? Under your philosophy, does the wife have no rights?

As you might be correctly surmising, I'm having a but of trouble getting my mind around this.

I don't suffer from depression but I have industrial strength fibromyalgia. After 28 years of caretaking, it's progressed to a stage where I can't even reach the floor or my own feet, so I wouldn't be able to do the kind of cleaning you're obviously able to endure. But if you keep up what you're doing, you may find yourself further disabled or incapacitated, somewhere down the line.

My suggestion is that you stand up for yourself now, before you reach that point.

Maybe you could suggest that she wear the depends like underwear. Tell her she can still use the bathroom, but just in case she can't make it there in time......

First of all your husband should be helping out with cleaning up after his Mother. She did it for him. Cleaning up after someone one is not gender assigned. I can understand he not wanting to see his Mother undressed but he can clean up any messes she makes in the bathroom and bedroom or any other place. This will help him to understand the situation better. The other option is to hire an in home caregiver. When my mom got incontinent I got read of her regular underwear and purchased Depends. I was able to apply for In Home Support Service thru medical and hired a caregiver to bath, help dress and prepare food for her. She was a great help and my mom loved her. Even if you can get someone to help 2-3 days a week would be good respite for you.

Since 2013 my wife sits and sleeps on bedpads, no undies, No UTIs.
Facility standards for scheduled toileting is every 2-hours.
She taught us that she requires toileting every hour. She is ambulatory, requiring a little assistance for safety, so we so simply take her for a walk every hour.
Since 2015 few accidents and usually our fault for missing schedule or signals of urgent need.
We often discuss why we ever used pull-ups.
They are inconvenient to pull down or tear off, then replace and they are traumatizing.
It is easier to stand her, pull the the bedpad and replace. Especially those occasional times in the night.
We wipe her with witch-hazel and water dampened terry cloth, or shower.
The hourly walk cost a little more time, but she is thriving and happy.
So are we. 5 years, now.

Oh we did have 2 months of her needing total assist as she couldn't support herself due to something in her hip.
We, usually I, had to transfer her to a wheel chair to toilet, so there were some accidents.
But we discussed again how not having to deal with pull-ups is so much easier.

These days, they make very cute "disposable panties" for daytime use with flowers and things on them.

I recommend that you work hard to convince both your husband and your MIL that she needs to wear the "disposable panties" during the daytime. She can use an uglier Depends-type underwear for nighttime use, if necessary.

Can you consider keeping the bathroom door closed so that cat does not enter it? That way, you can leave the toilet lid UP.

I wear a pad every day and if necessary would wear depends if i needed to.

i kinda sorta am embarrassed but at the same time feel independent and dont worry about problems ... unless It’s my bowel and i have to get to the toilet quickly.

i dont worry about sitting or being in public. I have a job by the way and have to manage my physical problems.

i would try to “forcefully suggest” to your husband the importance of your mom no longer worrying about getting to the toilet in time.

i dont know if this would work with your cat but you may want to try picking it up and taking it to the cat box every time you see it going into the bathroom ... or near it.

pick it and take it to the cat box and put it in. Kiss it and pet it and tell it how wonderful it is. Hopefully it will eventually find no interest in the bathroom.

I think most of us can feel your pain. It’s so tough trying to make everything seem “normal” for an affected LO when normal is ever changing! I might suggest you buy a prettier box of women’s pull up briefs, assuming she can manage getting pants on/off to put on a new brief. Wrap them and have your husband give them to her. He can suggest you go help her try them out. HE should tell her you’re working together to address needs as they arise. Remind her you each have a part to play. Her job is to cooperate and accept more help as it’s warranted. It’s non negotiable. (If she can’t or doesn’t have help you’ll have to use tabbed briefs which can be tricky to put on by oneself.) the prettier briefs are a tad more expensive, but once she accepts using them you can always switch to a cheaper brand that’s plain! This worked for us- hopefully it will work for you🤞

I haven’t read the responses below so others have probably said the same thing but from experience I can say that this is a really difficult subject for both your MIL and your husband. It’s really hard for anyone to come to grips with the need for Depends but having your son involved has to be particularly hard just as a son having to to deal with this for his mom is really uncomfortable. I don’t live close enough for daily or even weekly visits, it’s my brother who does that but this is a subject he asked me to start and then he slowly moved into. It was difficult for my mom to have me involved but she accepted it better and I did everything I could to keep it dignified and more mater of fact. I still order her Depends and have them delivered to the house, I am the one she talks to about her changing needs in that area and when she has a UTI or once a yeast infection I’m the one that has the hygiene discussion. These sensitive subjects are all in the timing and approach in my experience.

So first thing I would do is change the approach a bit, just because she is wearing disposable underwear all the time doesn’t mean she shouldn’t still be using the toilet when she needs to, the underwear is simply a back up to help eliminate the need for more clean up and laundry should accidents occur as well as a safety for her so if she just can’t get to the bathroom or doesn’t feel the urge in time she doesn’t have to go through the embarrassment of wetting herself and the bed or chair she’s sitting in. Urinary (and I would focus on that) incontinence is very common in woman, in particular women who have borne children, as they age. It’s just a fact and it’s something your husband might be able to understand. Take the focus off of all you have to go through cleaning up as the reason to change things and put it on what’s best for MIL, wether she says it outwardly or not every time she has an accident it must be awful for her. Some people deal with embarrassment by trying to hide things and acting embarrassed, others deal with it by ignoring or even blaming others in some way but internally it’s torture. Believe me the hiding and trying to pretend everything is ok isn’t better. Anyway if I were you I would encourage having her doctor start the conversation with her, it doesn’t have to be you or your husband and then maybe she and her doctor can figure out which one of you MIL is most comfortable with being the go to in the household on this. Don’t refer to the disposable underwear as diapers, they are underwear, find the type and style that she likes best and start slowly replacing all of her reusable underwear with the deposable she likes. Then perhaps discreetly put a fresh new pair out for her morning and night, maybe on her bed or just in the bathroom, somewhere that will trigger her memory to put a new pair on without you or hubby saying anything to remind her. We have one of those small metal trash cans with a lid that closes on its own in Moms bathroom rite nest to the toilet, I get the small lemon scented trash bags that fit inside from Walmart and she can just tie the bag up when it gets full which happens every couple days. This not only helps hold the smell down but gives her the independence to take care of this personal need on her own. Is there a way to keep the cats out of the bathroom she uses? Somehow make it off limits to them so the toilet seat can stay up and surprises while she is in there don’t happen? If litter is in there it might be better to move it elsewhere anyway with an elderly person around to keep hygiene easier and better, she is far more susceptible to UTI and anything you can do to help prevent that will only make your life easier.
Also, you not being “allowed” to participate in MIL care other than as maid in your own home is not sustainable so maybe finding a way through this will help DH let go of some of that control and trust that you can be a participating partner before you have to be forceful. GL!

Take away all panties and replace with pull ups. Schedule her bathroom times to every 2 hours. If she has a white board, record bathroom times on it and tell her it is ,"doctor's orders." Do not put the seat down on the toilet. Accompany her to the bathroom and keep her briefs and a trash can next to the toilet. If she has a BM in the brief, I find it easiest to just move her to the shower for cleaning. I have a radio in the bathroom tuned to her favorite music that only gets turned on when we are in the bathroom. Consistent routine works really well!

Open the toilet seat and train the cat. This is not a situation that requires her to wear depends, the cat is creating a situation that is easily fixed.

He is in denial. And I get it. He doesn't want his mother to wear a diaper all day since it makes him feel bad for her and/or she doesn't want to (since it makes her feel bad). It's a difficult situation. But, you know what needs to be done. She needs to wear it 24/7.

My father was living in a facility that offered both independent and assisted living options. He was in independent and I was the primary care giver when he reached this point (needing to wear all the time). And, I let it slide. I covered the bed in plastic and washed sheets once a week. But, it was not enough since his apartment smelled of urine. That continued for months until the staff of the facility stepped in and asked to take over. I let them and they did what was needed. They kept him in absorbent underwear and they kept his clothes and bedding clean. No more smell. Dad was clean. Dad was being cared for.

I know my situation is different than yours since you are doing the cleaning. But, I wanted to share my experience to support you and what you know needs to happen. Like the staff at his facility, you see the problem and you know the solution.

How do you get your husband on board? I don't know, other than to say you need to be firm with him. Tell him that his mother is changing; that he may not be ready for it; may not like it. But it's happening. It's time for him to grow up and take responsibility for his mother. Role reversal is normal. It is now time for him to care for her. She will increasingly become more childlike and he must act like the adult and do the right thing.

Good luck.

If she still goes to the bathroom during the day, she shouldn't have to wear Depends.
Actually wearing them 24 7 could lead to infections.

Juse keep the lid up or shut the bathroom door.

Your MIL is more important than your Cat