ExhaustedPiper Asked October 2020
Is a diagnosis of dementia ever a legal defense?
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& perhaps before she gets you to be Piper the Chauffeur 24/7, call around to see if there is a Lyft or Uber driver who is known for being elder friendly and do a drive with them to discuss that possibility. Or if there’s a senior friendly transportation service that specializes in this.
I’m assuming that you really don’t want to blithely be her on call chauffeur. The Area on Aging for your area probably has a list of day programs that include outings in their activities. I’d suggest that you try to get her on a twice a week day program and let thier shopping outing be how she gets most of her retail therapy & shopping done. & get set up to order online & get it delivered to you at your condo. I think that if the anticipated 2nd wave of Covid hits in Nov& Dec, Jan, you’ll be really glad to have online deliver services already set up and relationships with Uber in place.
Okaloosa County Transit, (850) 833-9168
http://www.ecrider.org/routes/
Something else I've considered is hiring a companion aid that could do some driving, for things like getting nails done or some shopping. I actually thought about a companion even before this because my mom doesn't have any friends here, but I didn't know how to approach the subject of paying for a friend. This could be framed as paying a person to drive. It seems less insulting.
I learned when I had cataract surgery that some ambulance companies have nonemergency transit. This is what I used for follow-up after surgery.
They're not cheap; most point to point transit services aren't. But the local transit company does have small vans, wheelchair equipped, that are reasonable. A year or so ago it was a nominal cost, something like $1.00, for transit one way.
Personally, I would consider these before Uber. I've read of too many issues arising from private service, either to passengers or drivers. I consulted cab companies; they're expensive, and you have no guarantee that the drivers have experience with older people.
Please allow her the dignity of taking cabs.
A friend of mine told me she used Uber for her dad and it worked well. She used the app on her phone, he didn't need to do it. I just worry about safety.
I have wondered how others handle this?
I have no idea about the guardianship thing. I think you need to talk to her lawyer about how to get her what she NEEDS.
Is she selling the cottage at FMV? Not doing so has implications for Medicaid.
Yes, the cottage is being sold for FMV. One day after the real estate agent listed it two people made offers. I'll be glad to have the cottage sold. It was too risky for her to be there and one less thing to worry about. Plus that money needs to be earmarked for her care.
I feel like things just accelerated, but to what I don't know.
Since there was minor damage the fine may not be too bad. First time DUIs are usually not as bad. Bring Dementia into it and maybe the Judge will be lenient and she will just get a fine, has to pay for the damage if insurance doesn't and her license revolked for good. Laws need to change and doctors made accountable when they don't report a Dementia patient to the DMV. License should be taken away upon diagnoses. Because, by the time they are diagnosed they are pretty much into the Dementia.
We had a Cop in town whose Mom suffered from ALZ and he was told he couldn't take her license away until there was an accident and ALZ was found to be the cause. By that time she could have killed someone.
As said, get rid of the car. If there is a POA a diagnoses that Mom can no longer make informed decisions will put the POA in effect. Its no longer what she wants but what she needs. The POA can then sell the car for Market Value if u think Mom will need Medicaid within five years. In the meantime, store it somewhere else. Out of sight, out of mind.
This DUI is going to be costly. I bet it's 10K when all is said and done. At least it gets her off the road FINALLY. I agree with you JoAnn, I think a dementia diagnosis should be a nationwide permanent driving ban. An innocent life trumps the old person's desire to remain "independent". I'm not happy she went through the DUI, I know it was very upsetting, but I am very glad she will be off the road.
You also observe above that Mom was given a "DUI" but may not have done the tests. Refused blood test and I don't know about breathalizer. She may have been diagnosed as DUI because of her answers, which may have been a result of dementia. But that alone is enough to have license taken. I myself would be honest as to no more driving again, and would go for the Senior ID with her and release the license to drive. Your Mom has been diagnosed?
Are you thinking she may be needing more care now? Is she still living alone?
I am so relieved to hear that her POA is in place and you are on the spot. Wishing you so much luck.
In PA both tests are given. If either is refused then it's a mandatory suspension of one year.
She was diagnosed almost 2 years ago. She lives next to me in my condo building. She gets a lot of supervision, and there is a lot of back and forth between our two condos but I don't live with her. She can still do her own ADLs and she keeps her place clean, still pays her own bills (it just takes forever).
I think we're okay, for now. (I hope)
I haven't done any criminal work, or interpretation, in years, and couldn't say whether dementia is a defense w/o doing legal research. What I would do though is plan to appear in court with your mother (even if she doesn't want you there).
If her lawyer isn't a criminal lawyer, it's much better to get one. Law is so segmented by practice area that someone who's not in that field isn't going to be current on practice as well as legal precedents, penalties, etc.
You or your brother can ask for a court-appointed attorney (assuming that she's unable to afford an attorney of her own, or wouldn't agree to consider hiring one with a practice specific to criminal law). At least that way she has some level of protection.
I think dementia would be an explanation only, as to how the situation arose. And I'm pretty sure her ability to drive would be legally rescinded, likely permanently, unless she gets substance abuse counseling, and/or a doctor can certify to her ability to drive despite the dementia.
If this is the first offense, and depending on the hearing judge, she may just get off with a reprimand and revoked license, as well as mandatory alcoholic addiction counseling.
This is where an experienced criminal attorney could help mitigate a worse outcome.
Good luck; I hope this event has a side effect of bringing your mother closer to you and your concerns, and give up driving for her sake as well as that of her family.
My father went through the no more driving situation, and given his independence, it wasn't easy. So I tried to plan supportive happy events whenever I took him somewhere...little surprises, like stopping at his favorite restaurant, or getting a Dairy Queen (a treat for both of us), or visiting a friend, or putting a favorite CD on after we returned, to divert his attention.
Walks in the neighborhood also were a diversion, especially if we met other walkers, and even more especially if they were walking their dogs. I also tried to get neighbors to bring their dogs over to visit him.
So far she has only had the preliminary hearing. My brother was supposed to go and then at the last minute he changed his mind telling me that he didn't need to be there. I was so angry, but then my mom said "everything went okay" and it only took five minutes. She will have to return to PA for sentencing (that is my understanding so far) and I won't be counting on my brother that time. I will go or my sister will go.
I'm not looking forward to being her driver but I will do it. My mom can be really difficult and demanding, so how she takes to getting used to things will depend a lot on her. In the last couple years I've had to work hard to maintain boundaries and we've made progress. This will be an extension of that, so hopefully it goes okay. It sounds like you did pretty well with your dad. I hope I can too.
I cant imagine that dementia is a defense against a DUI. It might mitigate an order to attend AA meetings, say.
But this should be a wake up call to the court system that mom may need a guardian or at the least that she can no longer live alone.
I would ask your brother to press mom's lawyer to refer her case to whatever court handles guardianship in her jurisdiction.
I would also supply the court with the documentation that you've got on how your mom managed to get around her doctor's suspension of her Florida license and her getting a license in PA.
I have a durable POA, do you think the criminal charges will trigger something in regards to guardianship?
So you remember how she got around the Florida revocation! Quite crafty on her end and you might recall she won that legal battle! This is one she can't win. In fact I didn't even find out about it until she already knew she didn't have a leg to stand on. When she went to PA to visit, there were no plans to sell her cottage or her car, it was just to be a visit.
Next thing I know she tells me she got a DUI, she put the cottage on the market, and sold her car up there. I find out all of that in one conversation. My sister who had been there visiting the week before had no clue. My brother had no clue. My mom kept it all to herself.
So when she comes back to Florida tomorrow, that's it. She's never going to the cottage again. In fact there is already a buyer.
BTW- I'm VERY relieved nobody got hurt. These seniors that refuse to give up driving are ticking time bombs!
Where it could be a defense is in case of shoplifting, if seniors are bussed by their Board and Care of ALF to shopping center. And even that would likely be through "forgiveness" and the lack of the store pursuing charges.
It is time for the POA to take more active role for Mom now, it would seem, if she will allow it; if not, guardianship might be in the future. Good luck.
My brother's accident was the beginning of his diagnosis. Prior to that we thought there were only balance issues. He was only so thankful he had not injured anyone by his not knowing what was going on with his brain. I hope that's the case with your Mom. He was more than willing to give up driving.
I have no idea how the DA will penalize her, and as much as I hated waiting for the crisis I never expected that my 75 year old mother would get a DUI.
So in that regard this is a good thing. She can't blame me this time for attempting to take away her driving.
I just don't know what to expect in terms of any other penalties. For example she "left the scene" but according to her she didn't know she hit anything, and her driveway was right down the road. My brother told me that her lawyer did want a copy of her medical report showing her diagnosis. He won't be fighting for her to get her license back, the lawyer is aware that us (the adult kids) do not want her driving and like you said she shouldn't be driving period.
I just don't know what else to expect.