Is there a legal way to stop my 93 year old dad from leaving?

Sondra27,
1) what do you want as an outcome?
2) what are you legally able to do?

For your poor husband's sake I would rehome your father into a nice care facility whether he wants to go there or not. Your first obligation is to your husband and children, not your father. No where in your profile or post do you mention the word "dementia". Yet, he has the hallmarks of it.

Are you his only child? If you have siblings you need to have a family conference about when and how to get him placed in a NH. Does anyone have Power of Attorney for him? If no, and if he won't assign it and if he already has enough cognitive decline that he won't know what Power of Attorney is, then your only recourse will be to pursue guardianship of him through the courts. If you/some one in your family doesn't pursue it, the county eventually will and you/your family will have no power, no say in where he goes and what care he his given.

You also need to bring yourself up to speed on his mental decline. Teepa Snow has some very informative videos on YouTube. I suggest you watch them, as I think you are somewhat in denial since you can't seem to interact with him as a person with a broken mind, as opposed to who he used to be (your pre-dementia father).

Start with getting durable PoA if you can. Who is paying his bills or managing his financial affairs? You will need to know what assets he has so you know whether to apply for Medicaid for him or not. Does anyone go to the doctor with him? Take him for a medical exam and have the doctor give him a cognitive assessment so that you know what you're dealing with. Start researching local facilities. Don't tell him anything about moving, don't react to his mistreatment of you (he can't help it). Walk out of the room, or just don't respond. Don't respond to any talk about him leaving or goldmining. Save your energies for creating a transition plan and all that needs to go into. In a care community he will have much more socialization and activities and get all the medical care he needs, while you can go visit him as often as you want, and your home can come out of the chaos and your husband gets his wife back. I wish you all the best...let us know how it goes and come back with more questions as they come up.

Sondra

Are you for real? It sounds like you have spoiled your father rotten. And you’ve already had seven family members telling you that would be my guess. What could we possibly say that will wake you?

Let him plan his trip without interference. Maybe it will keep him occupied. If he is not incompetent to make his own decisions then he can. Age alone is not a reason to hold someone against their will.

It sounds like he has been propped up so much he is delusional but couid he pass a competency test?

If he is deemed competent, you would need guardianship to stop him and then it could be hard. Who controls his finances?
I suspect once you let go of your end of the rope, he will forget about it.

The first rule of the game is if you quit playing, game over. His game seems to be called “How quick can I bring daughter to tears.”

Do not cook him another bite would be my advise. Hand him a protein drink if you must and say “Enjoy” and walk away. You don’t need to engage in conversation. You already know what he has to say. Quit trying to argue with someone who has dementia. Plenty of old people live on their own and don’t cook and don’t take their meds correctly if at all. He doesn’t sound like the sort who will miss out on too many creature comforts.

While he’s planning his trip, you start researching alternate housing for him.

No one can stop this madness but you. Go to therapy. Post often here. Do something for yourself BEFORE you do another thing for him. Let me amend that. Do something for yourself and your dear husband before you do another thing for him. You are giving him all your power and all your emotional energy.

And it’s not making anyone happy is it?

Start with the basics. Please and thank you. Respectful tone. Genuine appreciation. And in case you don’t understand, that would be coming from him to you. Otherwise ignore him.

You are not his servant. Quit acting like you are and you are afraid you’ll be kicked out of the house and won’t be able to feed your six grown children if you lose your job.

Its the old proverbial “tail wagging the dog”. He needs you, not the other way around.

Sondra, what are you afraid of after all?

I hope someone answers this post with words that will bring you out of the trance. I know it’s hard to turn your back but not as hard as what you’ve been doing.
Good luck.

Your father is obviously suffering from dementia and has no way of 'going gold mining in the hills of Lake Havasu', let's face it. Therefore, since it's literally impossible for your dad to leave, I wouldn't be worried about 'legally' stopping him from doing something he can't do to begin with.

I would, however, get him placed in a Skilled Nursing Facility immediately. You need to take your HUSBAND'S serious health issues into consideration and realize that the stress your father is creating in your household is hurting him.

Caring for your father for 8+ years at home is ENOUGH. He can go into a SNF or an Assisted Living Facility and 'order' his meals precisely the way he wants them THERE. And let's see how that works out for him.

I was a care giver to an elderly man who suffered from Alzheimer's many years ago. He too would bark out orders about how he wanted his eggs and bacon prepared each morning. And naturally, my eggs & bacon were never perfect, the way they were when he was on the QE2, years ago. I would remind him that this was NOT the QE2 but his kitchen, and my eggs and bacon were perfectly wonderful, thank you very much. After cooking for a family for 30 years, I knew how to make eggs. I wound up taking WAY too much crap from old Gene and quit that job after working for him for about 2 months. He wound up living for 10 more years, believe it or not. He'd also treat me like a slave and a second class citizen, coming after me with his walker raised over his head. Not okay; not from an employer OR from a family member.

Tell your father he will be moving out soon, and then make arrangements to have him do exactly that.

It's time to take care of your immediate family and yourself now. Dad will be in very good hands in residential care and you can go see him every day if you'd like.

Good luck and all the best moving forward

"He wants to move south and go gold mining in the hills of Lake Havasu"? Sounds pretty good to me. Buy him a bus ticket, and give it to him. He can choose.

Why do you want to stop him?

He sounds beastly and your husband doesn't need the stress.

I would give him a bowl of bran flakes for breakfast and tell him that is what he gets until he can appreciate the effort you make to feed him.

Sondra: your first concern should be your husband and his health; your father needs to be placed in Memory Care facility (as his dementia has progressed) allowing you to concentrate in caring for your DH.

Please look into memory care specifically. They can do wonders with people like your dad that regular AL or skilled nursing do not.

My mother nearly withered away in skilled nursing because she wasn't sick enough to warrant much attention. I finally moved her to a memory care place, and she's doing much better.

I suggest you decide which of his ailments is the most important to you to treat. In my very smart mother's case, it was her mind needing stimulation more than her heart condition, so I moved her. It was the best thing I ever did.

You mention he is a Veteran.
Check with the local Veterans Assistance Commission and bring what papers you have they can help determine what he is eligible for. It might be a little or a LOT. They base accepting someone into one of the VA facilities on % of "Service Connected Disability" so the paperwork is important.
If he qualifies for Medicaid begin that process now.
You might want to talk to an Elder Care Attorney, you might have to obtain Guardianship.
Does your dad have a "formal" diagnosis of dementia? If not hold off on that until after you see the attorney.
It sounds like Memory Care facility would be best for him. If he does not need skilled care he does not need a "nursing home" or Skilled Nursing Facility.

And I would stop catering to him as much.
He eats what the family eats, when the family eats.
Don't argue, you will never "win" an argument with a person that has dementia.
When he starts to "get" to you and you feel like crying...if it is safe to leave him..walk out of the room. Or take to wearing head phones or ear buds so you can block out the arguments.
If you can, if you are the only one caring for him hire a caregiver to come in a few hours a few days a week.
You might even want to look into Adult Day Care if that would be appropriate for him. He would get a break from you and you from him. The VA does in some cases pay for that and most Adult Day Care will pick up and drop off.
You need to prioritize your husband and his health and needs before your father.
Your also need to prioritize your health and needs before your fathers.

Your Dad has a Dementia. He can no longer make competent decisions. If you don't have POA it may be hard to place him. But I think that is what you need to do. If he can't afford the cost if an AL or MC then apply for Medicaid. They will pay for his care in a LTC facility.

Your Dad can no longer be reasoned with. He has lost the ability to feel empathy. His mind is dying. He is in his own little world. He needs a good physical to rule out any physical problems and to have him declared incompetent. Your time and energy needs to go to your DH. The stress is not helping him or you. Dad needs more care than you can give. It no longer is what he wants but what he needs.

My dad's not usually mean, but he does the "want to leave" thing, all the time. He says he's "just out of the Navy, and has to get a job," or that he's "got to go sign up for old age pension. "
I think the best answer is that the man simply cannot do what he has in mind, as one of the others said. He won't get far, on foot! You can't reason with him.
I have POA, and I have dementia locks from Home Depot on the two street doors. Technically, my dad can get out the back, but the yard gate is locked, if he does.
One time he went out there, and I distracted him by showing him the new baby chickens, then calling him in for supper.

Sondra, the way to get him to a doctor visit is to employ a "therapeutic fib". You tell him that this year the govt changed the law and now people on Medicare need a mandatory annual physical. This usually works. Whatever it takes. Also, when he goes on about "grand travel plans" you can either redirect the conversation to a completely different topic, walk out of the room, or nod in agreement but then change the topic. I did this with my MIL before she was even elderly she would bore us with her self-pitying medical ailments conversation. I decided that every time she started in on it, I'd change the topic and keep doing it no matter how many times in a row I had to do it. The first time I did it to her, she stopped cold and looked at me in total surprise. I continued MY topic. She got the message very clearly and stopped boring me with that topic. This may work with your dad if he has much memory left. If not, just redirect the conversation as many times as it takes -- usually something very cheery like a fun story you read online, an exciting medical or scientific breakthrough or whatever. Make it really positive.

Your husband has CLL and you are subjecting him to this stress?

What meds is dad now NOT taking? I'm hoping that that will create a medical crisis, and when that happens, or when he falls, you call 911.

And you refuse to let him back in the house. It is FAR past the time for him to be placed someplace where he can order breakfast to his liking and chew the fat with other older guys. He'll have a ball.

Sondra, it sounds like you have been groomed for a very long time to do Dad's bidding. It can be very hard to change and yes, there will be push back.

If you have not had therapy, now is the time for it. You have two major events going on in your life, a husband with Cancer and a father who is causing no end of problems.

First, not more cooking any meals to order. You are not running a restaurant. Dad will not like it, but tough beans. Just because he is ranting and raving, does not mean you have to feel any guilt.

How do you make this change? "Dad I am sorry but as you are never happy with what I prepare, I will give you what I am eating." He will rant and rave and complain, you go for a walk, get out of hearing range. If he does not eat the food in front of him he will go hungry, so be it.

Sondra, you do know that you can still stand up to him and cry? Starting to cry does not mean you have to back down from your stance. "Dad I can see you are upset, so am I, but no, I will not prepare what you want for breakfast. Here is a bowl of cereal and fruit."

As far as the statements that he is going to leave, you know deep down that they are empty threats. He is physically incapable of going gold mining.

I agree 100% with others, your focus needs to be your husband. Dad needs to be in a care facility, check with the VA for options.

Put him to work trying to get mining permits.    I don't even know if they're possible for an individual these days.     And don't volunteer to do it for him.  

AZ is experiencing what could be considered a medical crisis b/c of Covid 19; I doubt if they'd even issue permits to mine for gold, if the rights aren't already tied up.  

A some point, you are going to have to get him out of your house and your life. He has not been himself for a long time. You can't communicate with him at all. He will never give any thanks for all that you have done for him. If he is a veteran, what about the VA hospital? You could tell him anything at this point. You could tell him he has been called up and he needs to report. I am sure you have no sense of humour now but I have a bit of the devil in me so let me give you some silly sugestions so you might have a laugh.
You could say you don't believe he is really your father because your real father loved you and your cooking and never spoke a mean word to you. (In a way, tbat is true. He is no longer your father). You could give him a peanut butter sandwich for breakfast and when he complains you say you don't know how to cook. You could say you know his body has been invaded by an alien and demand to know what they have done with you "real" father. Of course he doesn't like "earth food" because he is not from this planet.
It may be helpful to not think of him as your father. You can't please him and I don't know how you have done it for so long. You and your DH should take a vacation together and have a nice time. You could put him temporary care. Some places have that. You need to get him out of your life because he is ruining your life and the life of your family. He was so lucky to have you care about him and for him. But there is nothing you can do and you need your own life back.

Oh wow..my dad who could barely walk at 94 also thought he could do what he wanted. He even tried to ‘escape’ from the nursing home! They had to put an ankle bracket on him. But he was in a wheel chair so couldn’t go far. Unless you want to call his bluff and say go! He would have to figure it out and without a car how far could he get.

Yes. You can become his legal guardian. You will need to have his doctor state that he’s incompetent and/or a danger to himself or others and you will need to do so before a judge. The judge will then rule. Contact Social Services in your state.

However, if your dad is not incompetent and his doctor will not testify, your dad has free will and can do whatever he wants. I know this information because my 94 year old dad wants to move from his independent living apartment to a house. I don’t think that’s a viable plan so I told him I would not help him and then I contacted all the people he has previously reached out to and told them dad is not moving.

Recently he was in the hospital because he got a pinched nerve from packing and now has a walker. He knows he can’t move himself with a walker so he has physical therapy and still is pushing to move.

His doctor said they will try and fail and then come back. Personally I don’t want my dad to face any danger. With Covid everything is on hold so tell him that. We told my dad that but he didn’t think it pertained to him! Every state is different for laws pertaining to the elderly. Call legal aid for free advice or social services.

I don’t live with my dad but still do a lot of care giving and he is similar to your dad. You need to set some boundaries or his demands will destroy you. I can’t help you there because I wasn’t good with that either. I did tell him over and over that I would not help him move because I don’t feel it was in his best interests. I also had to hang up on him. You will need to say no and walk away. It’s hard but you are hurting yourself by putting up with his mistreatment of you. Tell him you love him but he can’t be so demanding. Good luck!

Yes, that all very familiar. You can't do anything right, you can't satisfy his needs. Everything is wrong. I'm pretty sure that you know by now that none of that has anything to do with you, but you are worn down by it. Who is your support system, besides your family? Do you have a therapist who you can talk to, vent to, and who can help you problem solve some of these situations?

If he can't walk around the block how is he going to get to Lake Havasu? That seems impossible. It's like a little kid threatening to run away. Maybe creating that as a fantasy is not such a bad thing. Maybe just planning and thinking about it is enough?

The best choice would be for him to move to Assisted Living and let the professionals tend to his daily needs, which would allow you to just be the daughter who visits. Is that an option for your family?

If not, it is definitely time for you to take back control of your house, your life, and your family. You are not a short order cook. Come up with a menu of items and provide those for meals. For breakfast, DAD, you can have toast, or cereal, or a toaster waffle. WHICH one do you want? You could even make a menu and post it on the refrigerator. And that's it. Do the same for lunch and dinner if you have to. You can have a menu of snacks, too. This way you can reduce the amount of energy dedicated to this particular issue.

My mother was pulling this "no food will satisfy me" crap when she still lived with my sibling. Now that she lives in Memory Care she eats whatever they serve her. I'm so relieved that she still enjoys eating and she still feeds herself. There are others in her unit who cannot feed themselves. This is the reality of diminished brain capacity.

Also, I have a little story about my mom which is similar to your dad wanting to take off for Lake Havasu. My mom went through a very hard time before we moved her into Assisted Living, and it wasn't all on her (longer story). We didn't understand how far her dementia had progressed, and she actually ended up in Memory Care. It has not been an easy or simple transition, it was very difficult, very fraught.

The night before we were supposed to go to the facility, she was staying with me and she pretty much had a meltdown. I had some travel magazines in my house and she took them, ripped out some pages and told me she wasn't going to any facility, she was going traveling. If I could've taken her, I would have.

No one wants to lose control of their mind or their life, and no one wants to contemplate death. I don't think we can understand how that feels until it happens to us. It's something to remember for when we are the elderly.

If he can't walk around the block, how is he going to leave? He can't! Dementia isseeingin I'm sure. You need to find him a facility. You've done your part and there is no such thing as keeping demented people happy. Good luck

At some point you lost control of your own household, you need to take it back. It won’t be easy because you’ve allowed Dad to rule the roost for far too long. 

Do you cook breakfast for everyone or just Dad? I might start there by telling Dad that you will only cook breakfast on Sunday and the rest of the week there will be cereal or whatever everyone else has. Also limit breakfast to what time you establish, what works best for you and your husband. If Dad misses breakfast time he can go without or is on his own.

Do not let him get away with the refusal to see his Dr or take his meds. Inform him if he is staying in your house he needs to comply. When he threatens to leave ask if he needs help packing and where will he be going so you can call a cab for him. Call his bluff! In the meantime start looking at facilities and see if there are any openings.

Contact the VA as others suggested and get him evaluated for care. Also contact your local Agency on Aging and see what they have to offer him and you. They should have Caregiver Support to help you deal with Dad and now caring for Hubby. Hubby is your 1st priority and if that means Dad has to move out then Dad has to move out.

If he doesn't have access to money or transportation, he can't leave. Just let him talk about this "dream" and don't let it rattle you.

It seems you let him rattle you since you care so much. Start valuing yourself and your relationship with others. Your relationship with your dad is going to be flawed because of the dementia. Stop letting his disease tear down your self-esteem. Right now you have the equivalent of a toddler throwing tantrums and mommie trying to soothe him at any cost - regardless of the cost. Start by talking with your husband about what are reasonable limits and what to do when those boundaries are stepped over. Please read any of the Boundaries books by Townsend and Cloud to help with dealing with difficult behavior. You may also benefit from seeing a counsellor to talk through creating a new lifestyle at home.

There is way too much on your plate. It is time for Dad to go. You mention meanness but don't mention dementia, though searching for gold when you haven't been able to drive for 5 years does seem to indicate that there is some lack of understanding of the way the world works. It is time for assessment and placement for Dad. You owe your energy to your primary family. To me it sounds neglectful of your family to put time and energy into this mean as a snake man you will never please. I would be desperate enough at this point for the ER Dump.

It is good that you have come here and can see that what is happening isn't your fault! That is step 1. Others have mentioned not arguing or disagreeing with anything he says and to try to either walk off to another room if he upsets you or try to change the subject. It doesn't always work, so walking away might be the only thing you can do to avoid your own upset. If he gets upset or angry, so be it. He'll eventually get over it. Nothing you say or do will change that, so it is best to "save" yourself and your sanity!

As for him going where he wants, make sure he can't open the doors to outside or have an alarm system so you know that he has gone out. Being unable to drive and having difficulty walking, he won't get far! Perhaps you can give him maps and maybe some phony mining applications to keep him busy. Make copies so he'll have to redo them - with memory loss, hopefully he'll forget he did it already or tell him he misplaced it or made a mistake and has to do another. Anything to keep him "occupied".

I do like one suggestion that says offer him a "menu" of meal/snack choices. Mom's MC does allow the residents to "choose" from several options on the menu. If he doesn't like what's on the menu, he'll just have to wait. He won't starve if he misses a meal, but he should be hungry at the next meal/snack time! If he complains that it isn't done right, just state the fact that this is how this restaurant serves them, and walk off. He'll either eat it or not. Do not let his complaints and personal bashing, etc get to you. It is easy to do that, but if you just think about how this isn't your "normal" dad, and that he's regressing, so it's like dealing with a toddler, you can work on letting his tirades roll off. You KNOW it isn't you and others have backed that up. It's the dementia controlling him.

As for going to the doctor - maybe add something to that phony application where he is required to have a physical. Let his delusion work for you! No physical pops, they will refuse your application! If you need medication and refuse to take it, they will also deny. Play into his "games".

Meanwhile... explore the VA option. If he is eligible, there might be somewhere he can be moved to, but it will take time and will be better to wait anyway, given the resurgence of the virus. It will give you time to explore that and any other options. It sounds like other than some medications he is healthy, so NH would not be the right place. MC would be best (and is less expensive than a NH - NH requires skilled nursing care, which increases the cost and he doesn't sound like he needs that care.)

If you find a good place and he can afford it (you might have to look into VA or Medicaid benefits, if his income is not enough), then comes the fun part! More trickery... When we needed to move mom (she was early stage, living alone, refused aides 1 hr/day after less than 2 months), the EC atty told us we couldn't force her to move. Despite having all the POAs, etc and dementia, this is where we were! He suggested guardianship, which is costly and time consuming, but the facility we chose said NO to committals. They said just get her there, they would take it from there. We had to come up with a ruse (having developed cellulitis helped us in her case!) For you, perhaps once everything is in place, you can call this the transition place for his "mining". Kind of like a meeting place or bus terminal that will organize everyone for the "trip". Be creative! Bring all his "mining" paperwork, so he can continue with his plans! It would be best if you have POA, so that you are signing FOR him, not you. If not, guardianship might be needed - wing it. Controlling assets are also best with POA, but SS can/should be done via rep payee.

An ER dump won’t work. I tried that with my mother in the past. I said she lives in a hoarder mess. I told the social worker failure to thrive at home. After finding nothing wrong with my almost 96 year old mother the hospital asked her where she wanted to go? Home she said. Home it is. They got her a cab and sent her home. If your father has dementia he can’t be home alone. It’s time to look at a facility.

Consult a medical professional and your local agency on aging. It’s time to move him probably.

I think you need to consult his doctors for assistance and also talk to the Office on Aging for help. Why people take in old parents with all of their horrible behaviors and needs that present themselves and thus destroy the caretaker and other family members just makes no sense to me. DO NOT TAKE INTO YOUR HOME THESE PEOPLE. Put the responsibility on them - someone must place them. You do NOT deserve this. No if's, and's or but's. And if somehow they stay and do things, well, let them make their beds and live with what happens - it is THEIR DOING that will fix them, not you. What they sow is what they reap. You can do nothing - let it go. Whatever happens is the fault of your father and why has no bearing on this.

Prayers sent to you.

Come up with a response akin to "Dad, I read on the internet that the gold has dried up at Lake Havasu."

That's rich for him to be acting in such a manner as your husband has CLL!

It’s time for dad to move to assisted living. If he can’t afford it, it’s time for a SNF.

Time for him to move out, It seems he gets pleasure from putting you down and seeing you cry, as well as getting your husband involved as well.

Unless you take steps to protect your husband and yourself, he'll continue to play these "games" since they provide him a sense of enjoyment.