My father in law has Parkinson's and is also in the final stages of dementia, we kept him with us however it has started to take a toll on my husbands health.. he ruptured a disc in his back and is in need of surgery, I have to work full time while he takes care of his father. We decided to make the very difficult decision to move his father to a NH in the process we discovered Medicaid looks back 5 years. We thought no problem.. that was a mistake! There were a lot of poor financial decisions made in a very short period of time which caused us to loose the opportunity of a NH and unfortunately in home nursing is not an option either.
The family member involved will not communicate. Is there anything we can do or any way to get around the situation? The family left do not have the means to cover the expense of a $10,000 a month NH bill.
the 25OK was viewed as compensation for his caregiving but there was no caregiver agreement or other paperwork done to help establish that it was not gifting?
& parents did a RM on their home so essentially have no property that could ever be sold to create income / assets.
& home has been tuned back to RM.
That the backstory, right?
The biggest hurdles imho is that IF the son that was gifted 250k will not from the get-go be willing to provide details & be totally responsive to any requests for information or bank deposits, then you & your hubs are kinda left with 2 options:
- you 2 cobble together whatever time & $ to augment his folks SS$ to pay fir caregiving that’s done in your home. Really if your hubs has his own heath concerns you need to shift as much as possible to getting paid caregiving done all above board for the folks. & folks pay for this from their own $.
- you go nuclear option. 2 choices here:
hubs as DPOA for his parents meet with a NAELA or CELA level of elder law attorney to discuss filing a police report against bro & his wife for “exploitation of a vulnerable adult”. Often the threat of this being on the horizon will spur a recalcitrant sibling to suddenly be all cooperative. It’s a serious felony & in the process of filing a charge the atty pulls background reports on them & can call in APS to run a parallel investigation. 250k is serious $, its not grandaughter took MawMaws old pearls. If they work at any type of government or teaching job or other job that needs clearance, it could cause them to loose their job or be suspended...... not a DIY gotta have a pit bulky of an atty
or if $ move fairly recent, and folks did not do some sort of tax filing with IRS, then talk with atty ably folks doing an amended return with the $ as income paid to them for caregiving. $250k tax bill is like 75k hit.
Theses are both nuclear options but either establishes it was not gifting as you have a police report and charges brought so $$$ was stolen from them & ok for Medicaid OR it was paid for caregiving and they have irs filing to establish that. But folks have to. E willing to cause serious repercussions for 250k home owner brother. Really it’s something to clearly discuss with an atty & it will get ugly
As others have posted, the exact timeframe on $ is critical.
So exactly what month & year was the last time Scott’s folks gave $ to your BIL or any other family member.
Thats the drop date plus 1 month to work back from.
And find the paperwork on the RM.
If the 250k was from a lump sum payment from the RM, that probably was on a home 400-550k. I’m guessing MIL didn’t pay taxes or insurance, so RM called in loan within couple of months of those not being done. I bet his folks didn’t at all understand the compliance requirements of the RM. How they went about getting this RM may be something for an attorney to look at. RMs require consumer counseling & exit interviews; if these were done on-line, who did them?
Personally, really I’d suggest you & hubs contact an NAELA or CELA level of elder law attorney to see what the options are - if any - for the predicament you all are in. All of us can give you ideas & things to mull over....... we’re an opinionated group on this forum ....
But it’s going to be how Medicaid eligibility review & elder endangering laws are done for your state that will matter. And that needs an experienced atty to discuss this with. Good luck.
As for using the ER to help you and your husband get out of your present situation, it's called Granny Dumping and it's done by families and nursing homes alike when they no longer can provide the care needed for whatever reason. Social workers in the emergency department are used to dealing with it.
You will not feel good about abandoning him - you are between a rock and a hard place - and you have no good solutions to your difficult situation. Keep telling the social worker or discharge planner at the hospital "No, he cannot come back to my home". This is the sad reality of health care in the USA.
Have you BEEN to an Elder Law Attorney with this problem? It could be a good place to start to get some answers as I think the one in your state would be familiar with your medicaid laws. But honestly I do not have a clue. Your parents made themselves virtually indigent with this gift. Yikes.
How far into the five year lookback did the $250 large gift occur? As it is now apparent that MIL is living with you as well - what is the plan for her as she declines?
Since MIL AND FIL are both living with you and assuming their expenses are low and they are both receiving Social Security - yes? - is there enough money to bring in a paid caregiver for even a few hours a few times a week to help with some respite for you and your husband?
Im sorry - but I can’t help but think you are leaving out some bits of information. That there’s a bit more to this situation than you’re telling. I truly don’t mean to be accusatory and/or mean but if anyone here can give you any real workable advice or potential solutions - you’re gonna have to be completely forthcoming.
I tried Medicaid in Idaho, www.medicaid.idaho.gov, just to see if there were any examples, and this is what happened in bold red typeface:
Access Denied
You are attempting to access a forbidden site.
So not as helpful as I'd been hoping, then...
I can access it here.
https://medicaid-guide.org/state/idaho/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Search_ID_Kwd_Medicaid&utm_content=Medicaid_BM&utm_term=%2Bmedicaid%20%2Bidaho&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxd7oj6mw5AIVgP_jBx0OogkeEAAYAiAAEgJiIfD_BwE
There are across the pond pages I would sometimes like to read that I am denied access to.
What happened to the wife - your MIL?
Just how old is FIL? You say he has Parkinson and late stage dementia- any idea on how much longer he’ll live? Sorry if that’s a morbid and insensitive question, but I’m very much a realist and a workable plan might need the “devil in the details”.
At what point is FIL in the five year lookback? Exactly when was your husband’s brother given the $250 grand?
... just trying to see a larger pic with a few facts that would make a difference in a workable plan.
Have you looked into a care home instead of a nursing home. They are like little mini nursing homes. They are about half the cost. I know, still not cheap.
I've brought this up before, consider Mexico as an option. There are plenty of nursing homes along the border that cater to Americans. They are about 1/5th the cost of an equivalent US nursing home. And, due to culture, they will get more caring care. Being so close to the border, if needed for insurance reasons, they can be in a US hospital faster than many people living in rural America can.