I've set boundaries! Mother is now threatening to die. How can I handle this?

Hi Marylin,

You've gotten some really good answers, and great that you have set boundaries. If she is saying she is ready to die, perhaps the best answer is to accept that rather than looking at it as a "reactionary stab" although I've no doubt it feels like that. After all this abuse and bad feeling, aren't you ready for her to die too?!

I just shared this link on another thread. It just came across on my browser feed and I'm still processing it, but it seems relevant - the thought process about when we are ready to say "enough" and just opt for palliative measures. I realize this would be your mom's decision process since she still appears to have capacity (though I'm not suggesting you even talk to her about this as it would probably be a disaster!), but you might find the discussion in this article helpful for managing/calming your own thoughts about it all:

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/why-i-hope-to-die-at-75

Good luck!

Jane

Marylin, I know why I wanted to help my mthr (serious narc/ PD) when we rescued her at the point of death. I wanted to help because I want to do something good with the money she hoarded and it was being siphoned off by fraudsters.

I rescued mthr and placed her in a great memory care. We worked so hard to untangle the fraud, including getting a sizable loan back from the manager of her credit union! Mthr continued to be evil and the ladies here helped me set boundaries about visiting her.

The most important realization I had regarding mthr's hoarding and mental illness is that mthr needs to be considered as an independent person. I can't see her as an extension or any part of myself. She can make her choices and I can disagree with them. But I can't control her or change her. I can respect her bad choices and make decisions based on what she said she wants.

If your mthr does not want to take meds for CHF, I say you allow it. It's a horrible death anyway, and if she's ready for it, let her go. If this is just to manipulate you, she is simply speeding up the timeline she will travel anyway. Stepping away from treatment may allow her to "go home" to heaven sooner as well. I say let her make her own bed, no matter the reasons for her making it the way she does.

You help your mom pay for AL? If this is endangering your future you should rethink what you are willing to do. She doesn't deserve your future, no parent does.

Do you really want to put your son in the position that he has to care for you, at the expense of his future?

It's very difficult. You are doing your best. If her mind is still sharp, perhaps she would benefit from some therapy. Has she been counseled by someone from her Church? They might be able to help her adjust to her situation. Would a church person or therapist make a house call? Would she accept therapy or counseling? You can't force her to do anything. Some AL facilities can arrange for house calls. My mother's doctor also prescribed Melatonin to help her sleep and take the edge off. With my mother who has advancing dementia and also has said she wants to die, we changed her hospital directives to "no hospitalization." The staff will call EMS if she falls or has an emergency, but they will do their best to treat her in place.

Oh my. I am so sorry and I truly hope that things get better for you honey. Please do all you can to take care of your self and your sanity. I wish I could give you some better words of advice but I am kind of new and joined this site looking for understanding and help myself.

I am so sorry to hear all of this. I thought I was was going through a bad time living under the same roof with my 83 yr old manipulative and controlling mom but now I understand it can always get worse. I have put my Mom on a waiting list for an assisted living place (and she guilts me for it every day) and I was thinking, well hoping, that once I got my mother in there that all of my stress, worries, and troubles would be over. But, it sounds like that just because you put a parent in AL doesn't mean that it's the end of stress, worries, and troubles but could be just another load of the same if not worse! This makes me want to just go pack my bags and hit the dusty trail! God help us all. Is there just no hope? Don't "OUR lives matter too"? We are doing our best as daughters, and yes I'm sure our mom's are going through some things too and feel like they don't have any control over their own lives. And yeah, I'm sure when we get to this point we will have some of the same feelings, but so help me God, I will not put my children through what I have been put through. When my time comes, I will check my own self into AL. Don't beat yourself up. You are doing the best that you can, especially under the circumstances with your mom's behavior. I will keep you in my prayers and I hope things will get better for you soon.

While I always took my mom to appointments, both NH she was in offered a for fee service to escort patients to appointments so start there - quite often it is one of the staff doing this on a day off or an outside nursing service - there may be a minimum hours to be paid plus expenses - pay for this the first time & maybe take her the second so the dr can see her both ways

Your mom is emotionally trying to brow beat you - maintain your boundaries. My mom did the same when I finally set boundaries about 10 years ago. IT went from abusive phone calls, letters, to threats to kill herself in order to get me to knuckle under.

I would be on the phone or with her and when it started I would say "I love you mom, but I will no longer take this from you. Good bye" and leave or hang  up the phone.

One time on the phone she told me "i'll kill myself and then you'll be happy" and I said "no, I love you but there are two of us in this relationship" She kept on with the "I'll kill myself" and I told her "if you are serious, I'm going to end the call and dial 911 to have someone come and get you to the hospital to stabilize you" well, she backed off quickly.

She started telling her building manager that I was a horrible daughter and she wanted to die. Of course the building manager called me "how could I be so insensible" I cut her off "there is more here that you don't know. If she threatens to kill herself - you should dial 911 so you have no liability"

Just keep your boundaries. Be polite and loving to your mom. But do not engage whenever she starts in on whatever manipulation of the day she tries. Tell her you love her but you have to go.

10 years later my mom and I actually get along really well. It took time and a lot of emotion but she respects my boundaries. She knows what will happen if she does not because I'm consistent in enforcing them. Good luck

How would you feel ... what would you think ... if she were not your mom but someone youve only heard about.

Marylin: You should listen to your husband's good advice. You don't deserve the literal emotional "beat down" by your mother, who is supposed to be your protector. It is imperative that you take care of YOU.

I haven’t read any of the other answers but I would like to make a suggestion. Take some time for you in solitude and silence. If you cannot do it in your house go to a park or any other place where you can be alone. Then think about your mom as that, your mom. Not the constant source of trouble that you feel she has become. Think about her as a person, as a human being that is terribly struggling with so many things: aging, illness cognitive decline, lack of control over everything including her own life -where she lives, who she lives with, what she eats,what she wears, when she showers, what she does with her time....etc, etc-EVERYTHING.
She also feels that death is really all she has to look forward to. Can you imagine? And maybe even all she wants, although it scares her.

It is a tormented life if you can call it a life. And she also feels like a burden, she feels her family doesn’t love her or cares about her (not saying it is true, it is what she likely thinks).

Although you think she is threatening with dying out of a desperate desire for control, I think at this point in her life there is actually a lot of truth behind the desire to die she is expressing. She refuses the medication for depression because depression makes her not to want to seek any help.

Now you might be thinking “So she is a saint, and I am the bad guy”? And, “Even if all that is true, why is she so incredibly angry at me? All I have done is to try to help her, why Is she trying to make my life miserable?”

The answer is, no she is not a saint, and neither are you, neither one of us is a saint. We are just human beings trying to do our best. And you are not a bad guy at all, you’re a daughter that is exhausted, hurt, and really trying to do her best.

I know how you feel, I have lived it, I live it in certain days more than others. But if there is something I know without the shadow of a doubt is that I really have no clue how I would deal with all my mom is dealing with at this stage of life. ZERO idea.
My mom is the strongest person I know, and if she is still alive is exactly because of her strength and her sense of discipline.

I think that if alll of us thought for a moment how we would deal with all that our elderly loved ones go through, we would likely not know the answer. Would we be miserable and behave accordingly? Would we not want to be bothered and demand constant attention from those closer to us? Would we want to die too?
What do you think? I think the odds are pretty high that we would react very similarly to how our mother or our father, or any other loved one would.

So, all I am suggesting is that you take an step back, and remember that your mom is as fragile of a human being as you are, being in her shoes right now is a very tall task. Don’t forget that Marilyn.

Having remembered that, I think a very valuable resource you have is to give her some of what she is so much hoping for but in a very honest and well managed way, what I mean by that is in a way that she can truly feel your love and relate with it. As daughters and sons we know how to go back to our basic way of giving and receiving love and she will feel it if you go to her without resentment, just with love. Then talk to her, all patients with dementia or even Alzheimer’s are able to reach a point of calmness if they feel at peace, at least for a while, and in that moment you may be able to reconnect with your mom and talk about important things, for example her living arrangements. If she is calmed enough and if you talk to her as her loving daughter you can get her to realize why it helps you and it gives you peace to know she is well taken care of, since you cannot do it even though you would love to be able to. I promise if you get her to reach that moment of a little peace you’ll be able to communicate better with her.

Even if nothing happens it will be really good for both of you to remember and act as you used to. May God bless you both!

1 - WELCOME TO THE CLUB
2  - her threat to die is manipulation 101 - this is her trying to prevent you from keeping her safe or as she sees it 'WHAT SHE WANTS'  but many times we/you have to do as is necessary but not what the person wants - would you let your 3 year old grand-daughter do what mom asks ..... no she needs more supervision than that child
3 - she MIGHT remember what you have done but if you can tweek/manipulate the outcome then you might be where she is happy ..... don't bet your house on it

Discuss this at once with the primary care doctor and the facility's head honcho. Do NOT, under any circumstances, give in to her and bring her home. You will have to live in HELL. "She despises me, hits me, curses me, & blames me for all her ills." How on earth can you put up with someone like this? No human being with even a pea sized brain would or could allow people to treat someone like this. That would be the END for me for good. She is 89 and she will get worse. Now YOU have to be strong - and sensible - alert those professionals who might be able to help her. All they can do is try, they are not God. Let her rant and rave and carry on - she has to stay where she is. And YOU have to be strong and keep away from her until she either stops the bad behavior (isn't going to happen) and start living your life and taking care of yourself while you still can. Talk also to the local Office on Aging in your county. They deal with seniors and aging problems. Good luck.

She could and should be transported via ambulance to a psychiatrist for a mental evaluation. YOU do not get involved because she's so acrimonious and mean spirited towards you. Her drama will continue to make you ill and you cannot let that happen.

I once was asked to drive a woman who was not right in the head. There was no way I was going to do that for fear for my life. [Insert- how do I know she wouldn't have pulled a knife on me?]

marylin; Read what Golden23 wrote!

She has walked this path; I have not.

My mother, (who also had mental illness) talked about suicide and I told her case worker and a psychiatrist she had seen. It was enough for them to hospitalize her (involuntarily if necessary,) She went and spent almost a year there being assessed as having dementia and eventually treated. She refused meds for months. I had made it clear to her all my life that I would never take her into my home. She would have ruined my life. She tried to guilt me about that but I held firm.

Stick to what Barb wrote. If they ask you to take your mother the answer is "No". She is violent towards me. I cannot endanger myself, nor provide adequate care for her."

It is your mother's choice to take her meds or not . There is nothing you can do about that. Don't let her use it to manipulate you.

((((Hugs))))) I know it is hard but you can do it, and need to

The elderly do bring the drama.

Marylin;

If you are "asked" to take her, you say "No, I can't possibly do that; she's violent towards me."

If she needs to be transported in an ambulance, all the better.

If they threaten that "the state will take over her care" you say "yes, thank you, that would be a relief".

Marylin

You are within your rights to just step away and send the occasional card. That would be an acknowledgement on your part that you can't make your mom happy. She's safe and cared for in AL; as far as I understand, you've fulfilled your responsibility as a dutiful daughter of a mother with lifelong mental illness.

See, she's competent. She is an adult with choices and agency- e.g., she is allowed to exercise her own powers of decision-making to say Yes, I will not take meds even if it endangers my life".

Uunless she's NOT competent. That really can only get determined through a thorough psych eval. How do you get That? You really need to talk to the NP about that.

I have some questions and some suggestions. At 83 I understand that I am nearer to the end than the beginning. I am a care giver for a disabled daughter who sometimes drives me to the movies. (Literally). I realize that we are limited in the amount of control we actually have. I ask her why she doesn't want to take the meds and then just tell her she gets to make that decision. There is a group of doctors, across the country called "Doctors who make house calls". You might check and see if they are in your area and arrange for one of them to come to her, not have her go to them. DO NOT LET HER CONTINUE TO ABUSE YOU. You may also think about communicating with her by mail. Get a bunch of cute cards at the dollar store and send one to her each week with a short note, a memory of something from your child hood that makes you smile and say, Sorry I couldn't come by this week but was thinking of you. I may make you feel better.

Marlin
Just wanted to thank you for posting about this issue. There were so many helpful answers given. Hope things do smooth out for you. Please keep us posted.

As a Christian, I believe we are obligated to be sure our parents are taken care of in their old age. However, that does not extend to allowing them to abuse us. If she is well-cared for, then you do not even have to have contact with your mother. You do not have to continue to visit or talk to someone who hurts you. You can monitor how she is doing by keeping in close contact with the AL facility. Laura Schlessinger has some excellent books on dealing with toxic relationships. I'm sorry you are in this situation and will pray for you and her.

If she is intent on dying ask your minister to do a service of healing for her. In this particular case healing would relate to her passing on based on God's will for her.
Then you are out of the picture and it now is between her and God!
By the way, a service of healing can take on many different aspects of a persons spiritual life.

My situation was not quite this bad, but close. I used my mother's love of her physician to get her to a Neurologist. I told her the doctor scheduled the appointment and requested it, so she went along. She failed her dementia exam big time, so my suggestion is to get your mother in for an evaluation. After that she had a springboard POA so that all we needed were 2 physicians signatures to obtain the POA. This was helpful when placing her in MC.
It may be that she needs more social stemulation. My mother's MC has been excellent at making sure she stays engaged socially and mentally with a variety of activities. As she put it, "I have to go to bed early because if I don't get up for breakfast with the girls, I don't eat." I can see that if she had been placed in AL, she would have been very isolated and without routine in her daily life this would have exasperated her condition. MC makes sure she has daily routine, meds, and social experiences. Also, although she was still able to cook and personally care for herself, we were unaware at how stressed out she was by having to take care of her house, dog and personal self.. all of which had gone downhill in the past year. Just by not having the stress of it all, her mood and personality improved significantly.

This is a terrible situation for anyone to be in. No one should take abuse like you state you are.
I have a question: Why isn't the facility taking the action and calling in a phych to evaluate her. The doctor has the right to do this and i am told that every facility has them on staff. I would request that if they didn't approach this matter than you should. don't talk to the nurses talk directly to the doctor.
Second, i agree with many of the caregivers responses. I would simply tell her she has the right to do what she wishes with her furture. If she choices not to take her medicine, call a lawyer, etc, that is her choice, but when it comes to you, her abuse physically and or mentally is your choice. I would state if you continue to abuse me in these manners i will not come and visit. I will continue to call and speak to the nurses on your health issues and behavior. I will do this because i love and care about you. This is your choice and you need to think it out well. Your family loves you but if you choice to push us away we will have no choice but to stay away. I hope you decide to have a loving healthy relationship with me as i would like with you. than i would say I have to go now , take care of yourself. and leave...............
I would keep in touch with the facility daily but stay away until you hear positive news from the nurses.
This puts the ball in her park now . Maybe staying away and being alone will clear her head, but if it doesn't i wouldn't step in her room until she grows up...............
good luck.....

Giving you big hugs here!
Sorry this is happening. For me, it screams Narcissism. You are allowed to choose to be mentally healthy. You are allowed to disengage, report threats, enlist appropriate resources.
In recent reading on the Hemingway family, I saw many parallels to my own birth family, who I have very little contact with. While my family has been plagued with Narcissism and Flying Monkeys behavior, severe scapegoating targeted at yours truly, there is also the underlying mental illness, bipolar disorder, BPD, depression, afflicting my family. Several relatives were successful suicides. Several more attempted and were unsuccessful. All threats of self harm must be taken seriously. Please put the necessary phone numbers into your phone, to be ready for the next threat. Responders will be able to pull together medical care for suicidal people quickly, once hospitals, doctors, clinics become involved. Let them do what they do. As one whose childhood was constantly upended by nocturnal parental fighting, including murder and suicide attempts, I didn’t know, as a child, that it wasn’t normal for Dad to destroy the family car in a suicide attempt, or mother to go after father with scissors in a murderous rage. It was accepted part of living, for phone calls to Crisis Hot Lines to bring teams to the house, for suicide prevention response. I suggest you be prepared, notify your best option for suicide threat, and back away, to protect you. You don’t deserve the emotional blackmail. There is so much more to life.

Ugh. Yes. When my MIL threatened to stop meds and die, I would casually and very matter of factly state, “Well, you are an adult, and you are in charge of you. You can certainly make that decision, and we will support you in whatever you choose.” Stopped the ranting in its tracks! Except one time she backed down to, “Fine! I just won’t get my hair done no more.” Lol!! Like that would hurt me!!

i hear you loud and clear. Absolutely manipulative behaviour. Turn off voicemail. Do you have a mobile? If so give this to staff and not your mother. If she can’t leave a message she will stop trying. So she won’t take her meds. So what? She’s threatening suicide. So what? The more she tries this on in front of staff the bigger she is digging a hole for herself Don’t take her to any of appointments that are not necessary and scheduled. Do you have to take her? Does she have ambulance cover or access to very cheap transfer services through local NFP agencies? Does she have access to Veterans Affairs. She should if her husband served. Heaps of stuff there. If she needs psych evaluation I am sure staff we organise it when and where.
She’s using you as entertainment I feel you need to stop being responsible for her and stop saying “How high?” when she says jump. I bet there is a girl inside you just busting to say NO!!

I am so sorry for you!  My MIL was a guilt-tripper, but this is just plain mean.  You have nothing to feel guilty about and I'm going to make a suggestion that I truly hope you'll consider.  You say she's threatening to get her church involved (like you are the one in the wrong) - CALL HER MINISTER.  Tell him that she is threatening suicide and ask him to visit with your Mother.  Her church family SHOULD be involved and they can help in ways that you probably wouldn't even think of.  God love you - you are being abused and manipulated and this needs to stop.  💙💙

If she hits you, that is assault....you do NOT have to put up with this behavior!! Walk away and dont look back. You cannot change her behavior only your non-reaction to her tirades....does she hit others as well, or just you? Stay firm on your boundaries!!! Hugs to you!!

I read your post carefully, and I couldn’t find your mother threatening ‘suicide’ as such. Refusing to take medication is a right and can be a sensible choice (eg it’s a common thing to assess in hospice). I don’t think it classes as suicide, and I can’t see that it requires a psychiatric assessment. It would be a good idea to lock up any easy means to suicide (guns, bulk sleeping tablets etc), and wait and see whether this is simply an empty threat intended to upset you. One thing you don’t need to do is agree to help along her requests to die. Try letting her kick and scream all by herself. It probably won’t last long.