This one is for anyone in Victoria AUS. My husband is in permanent dementia care. He has FTD. I cannot take his phone away nor can staff. He has started getting taxis and coming to the house. He is becoming increasingly volatile and threatening. Is there any legal action I can take to stop him being here up without notice. I share a house with my son and grandchildren. My son co-parents every other weekend. His wife could ask that the children don’t come with this happening. Thanks
Can you arrange for him to be evaluated/reevaluated by a Geriatric Psychiatrist?
It is very different from other types of dementia.
Many times, there is no memory loss.
Many times, patients have challenges with violent behavior. That could be why the OP needs to be separated from her husband. Her life may even be in danger.
Public hospitals - yes.
These are a government funded service & they accept everyone for anything. (Exceptions being rural, where transfer to a larger city hospital may be necessary).
The elderly may be admitted to a geriatric medical ward. If absconding is a risk, to a locked door ward. A large hospital may have a specialised Geri-Psych unit. The public rehabs also treat Geri-Psych patients.
You can count on support with encouraging advice from other caregivers on this site but not legal advice.
For example… The legal advice I receive may not be exactly the same as anyone else unless they and their loved one live in my zip code and have the exact same eldercare legal documents in place when they ask the question.
Most residents would not be, so even if breaking out, would not have the phone skills to call a taxi or money to pay for it.
At only 67 too, very tragic.
I imagine thinking, moods & behavior fluctuates?
No-one would want to strip him of using skills he has... taking away phone & money prematurely. But these also enable him to escape.
I can't really see an Intervention Order being very useful. The consequence being Police returning him to his address - the Care Facility. Then what? He leaves again. It won't stop him.
I personally could not live that level of stress.
I am trying to think of alternatives for you until such time that his phone & cards are taken away &/or a Treatment Order brings something like long acting meds.
- Install a location sharing app on his phone, to enable you & the Care Facility to know his location (need concent).
- have a regular visits with him in the Facility coffee shop or even a local coffee shop insted (if safe to do so).
What advice did you get?
I would say call 000 if Husband turns up & is aggressive but the reason I suggested CATT is they are the experts in mental health. They will take someone to hospital (not Police station which is the wrong place for your Husband).
But check if your GP has better advice. Also, I am not sure if CATT is for +65s (if he is).
I’d say 1) Apply to the police for a restraining order. There is no exemption I know about for people with mental illness – in fact many of the domestic violence murderers quite possibly qualify. However it’s an unusual one for the police. You need to take with you notes about his increasing threats, and also his past behavior that led him into locked care. I’d stress the potential harm and children’s upset to the police, and I’d go to a Domestic Violence service for women if you don’t do too well with the police. Don't link it to your son's marriage issues, it only clouds the situation. Try police stations where you are, and also where the facility is. Either is appropriate.
2) Yes, he may well use the same taxi company each time, and you can tell them the situation. Do it in writing, with any back up evidence you have. Obviously you send them a copy once you get a restraining order. They may not be willing to do anything until then.
3) Find out who ‘owns’ the facility. Make an appointment to see the real boss, not the staff on the ground (though putting them on notice first is only fair), You want them to get a diagnosis for your husband that will give them the authority to operate as a locked facility, which is what they hold themselves out to be. It's not an excuse if they say that they can't do it without his permission until they have a diagnosis, and they can't get a diagnosis because he doesn't permit it. Take a witness with you, and write down the management comments immediately.
4) Tell them that you will be making a complaint to the Commonwealth funding department if they don’t sort it out. Your complaint will be that they are not operating as a locked facility, they are ignoring your husband’s mental health problems and mental health needs, and failing to undertake the supervised care that they purport to provide. There is also a designated Commonwealth complaints section relating to aged care facilities, which you will use. Make it clear that your notes are for that purpose. Notes made promptly after an incident have a special status in formal and legal proceedings. Make them in the waiting room before you leave, so that they know you’ve done it and you are serious about the complaint. Keep dated notes for all these meetings.
5) You can also threaten (genuinely) that you will use the Police Complaints system. Failing to respond to DV issues is a hot topic at the moment. It’s not an excuse for them to say that it’s not the normal DV problem.
This is probably happening because DH is only causing problems to you, your son and grandchildren. The staff at the facility have no incentive to make it their problem and have him becoming hard to manage on their premises. You need to make it THEIR problem. You do that by telling them the steps you are taking – talking to the boss, going to the police, and complaining to their funding body for inadequate supervision and care. The more fuss you make at each stage, the more likely they are to get working on the problem. If that doesn’t work, threaten to go to the ABC – aged care and domestic violence are about the top topics of interest. A pity he’s not transgender – you would have hit all targets at once! And go to the ABC, if you have to.
My understanding is that you have been separated from your husband for a considerable time, for good reasons. Do not get engineered into taking responsibility yourself for his care or treatment.
This is a real pain in the neck for you, and you certainly should not have to do all this yourself. You might find a support social worker through a Domestic Violence service, someone who knows the ropes and can also provide you with some personal support. Best wishes, and good luck, Margaret
He can't control his impulses or behaviour, so very strong boundaries will be need to be put in place. For you & your family's safety, but also for his.
The crux here is blame the illness. Not him.
The legal & medical terms that may help;
*Treatment Order*
A legally enforced hold (similar to Baker Act in US).
"be taken to, detained and treated in a designated mental health service".
Can start with a Temporary Treatment Order (TTO) & move to a TO if required.
May also be called Involuntary Treatment Order or Community Treatment Order (CTO).
*Intervention Order*
"Family violence intervention order (FVIO) - a court order to protect a person, their children and their property from a family member, partner or ex-partner."
However, the FVIO is a legal deterent - it can not physically prevent access. It will be useless against his altered thinking.
Right now, I have many questions regarding the facility.
1. Locked dementia specific ward. I am not sure how he is absconding?
2. I thought facilities are mandated to report escapees to Police? *See below
3. Is he aggressive/violent towards staff & they let him go??
4. In the community, violent behaviour endangering himself or others warrants Police or CATT (crises assessment treatment team).
Ask the facility what their procedure is. I would expect esculation to nearest Acute Psych Care in nearest public hospital via ambulance.
While dementia is not actually a mental illness, it is a brain disease, it all falls under the Health Service & the Psych area is probably best set up to deal with. Geriatric Psychiatry is the specific area needed.
Assessment & Treatment Orders are arranged as deemed necessary. Emergency Guardianship may also be needed.
* Note: the Aged Care Quality & Safety Commission website advises from 1 Dec 2022, updated Serious Incident Response Scheme. This includes;
"Unexplained absence from care – where the consumer is absent from the service without explanation and there are reasonable grounds to report the absence to the police".
The aged care facility MUST report his absence to Police immediately, everytime.
OP needs to be very careful not to drift into being responsible for the health and care issues. She needs to get into 'the system' that will deal with it at arms' length from her.
i am so sorry, it seems detrimental to him and a liability to the facility
Panda, have you looked into having your husband declared incapacitated?
In the US, if a person is a danger to him/herself, they can be detained.
https://www.victimsofcrime.vic.gov.au/the-crime/types-of-crime/family-violence
Ask the authorities for help and make sure he has a Geriatric Psychiatrist.
I hope you can get resolution to this situation right away Pandabear. BEST OF LUCK.
We had an OP tell us that in her state that she was not allowed to take the phone from a LO in a Care facility because by law they had a right to have one. Is this how it is in AUS? Or is it he becomes violent when someone tries to remove it?
Here in the States we have Assisted Living and Memory Care. With my Moms AL because the residents were those who were competent and those who were not, there was a code entry lock on the front door. Needed a code to get in and out. The fire doors could be gotten out of if the bar was pushed for 15 seconds. Memory care is a step up from AL for those with Dementia and these are lock down units. If you lived here your husband would be in MC. He would also be medicaid.
We also have the ability to place restraining orders on someone. Meaning when DH showed up, the police could be called to return him back to the facility.
In the Stares, if a person suffering from Dementia came to my house from his facility and was threatening, I could call the Police, tell them I was afraid for my life and they could Baker act him. This means time in a Psychiatric facility where the person would be given a cocktail of drugs to see what works. Then returned to the facility he was previously at.
Like said, you really need to contact a Lawyer to find out what your rights are. I think FTD is the worst of the Dementias because the person can be violent. Here, these people are in lockdown facilities and on medication because they are a danger to others and themselves.
If your husband is permanently in a care facility because of his dementia, someone else is making his decisions. I will state the obvious here and please bear with me. When a person gets put into a dementia facility it is because they cannot care for themselves. They are mentally incompetent and must have 24-hour around-the-clock supervision. I don't understand how the dementia care facility he lives in allows him to call a taxi and leave whenever he likes.
The facility can definitely prevent him from leaving by locking the doors.
You can also do a few things to prevent him from showing up. Like disabling his phone. The facility may not be able to take the phone away, but nothing is stopping you or your son from going to 'visit' at the facility and taking the battery out. He has the phone but it no longer works. Or, you can stop paying the cellphone bill and the phone will get shut off. I'm pretty sure your husband in the dementia care facility isn't making out the bills anymore. You can also get a list and call all the local taxi companies in the area that he uses. Tell them plainly who you are (his wife) and that he is mentally incompetent and a permanent resident of a dementia facility. They are not to send a taxi to him FOR ANY REASON. When he calls a taxi company have them call you at immediately. If he becomes persistent and keeps calling the taxi company tell them to call the police because this harassment is costing them business. The police will put pressure on the care facility to get him under control. Call the police if he shows up at your house.
There are some things you can do. If he can't get to your house, he can't be a danger to you, your grandkids, or himself.
Let's recap. While you're trying to get the diminished capacity declared in court, try any of the following in the meantime:
-Disable his phone by removing the battery
-Stop paying his cellphone bill. The phone service then be shut off.
-Speak to the cab companies he uses. Tell them he lives in a dementia facility and they are not to send a cab there FOR ANY REASON. If they do, they can then look foward to getting sued.
-Call the police if he shows up at your house.
It sounds to me as though he needs admission to a psych facility in order to get him on the right meds and then discharged back to his current facility. Will the Social Worker at the current facility help facilitate that?