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I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
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V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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I am so sorry you are in this situation, but, every person who receives government aid (such as Medicaid for nursing home bills) must turn over all assets, except $2,000 cash in bank, towards their bills. There is simply no way to get around it. If everyone who gets Medicaid were able to pass their house down to their family, just imagine how much more in debt this country would be--already we are at 18 trillion dollars--GASP--and with about 50% of our population reaching senior age, there are no easy answers. Hopefully they will teach all kids several times over, before they graduate, to take saving for retirement Very Seriously. And the kids need to know how much nursing home costs, so they can Plan for it, either through buying LTC insurance or deciding to live a more simple life now, so that they have enough money for later years.
And yes, I know i can't pay for insurance and taxes etc. it was more of she was wrong and giving people bad case management. Sometimes it's about pushing back when someone pushes the wrong information with a doubt without checking their information.
and no it was not a DIY project. It was done by a lawyer at the abstract & title office. He knew is stuff she didn't know hers and was pushing her weight and her attitude off on people struggling to navigate rough waters with no manual. There was no asking questions with her, there was no room for explaining things either. The elder law attorney became involved because of his case & work load of other customers that would be coming up against this person.
I consulted an elder kansas law attorney and after i sent a letter to the medicad person handling my case. I asked to see the Keepa law stating that a real estate deed could not have a recently added TOD. Remember the ownership was not changed only the TOD was added. I will gladly give what is coming to the state theirs but i should be able to give what is left to my TOD. NO WILL WANTED. I received a phone call from the case worker and she didn't mention the letter or statue but said i was approved and that Medicaid would go after the house upon my death. Not a problem, just the way it should work. At least she could have apologized for making me jump through hoops to prove my case. How many other people & cases was she wrong about.
I'd like to add, that for most, having a 2nd or 3rd home is not at all feasible financially to begin with for most of us; much less to pay what amounts to a 2nd or 3rd home costs on a NH Medicaid parents home that you may or may not ever be able to get ownership of.
The "intent to return" statement is a routine document required by state Medicaid program to be in compliance with federal regulations. It is an acknowledgement of a requirement of participation; if you do or don't sign it makes no difference. If you do, then easier for Medicaid. If you don't, it doesn't matter as by applying for Medicaid you agree to whatever conditions are set whether you sign off in agreement or not. In some states, if the property owner has a some significant health issues - like stage 3 or 4 cancers - they may not qualify to do the "intent to return" statement as they will have no ability to return due to the point they are with their terminal disease.
If you find that keeping the house is not going to be affordable for your family to pay from day 1 of NH till beyond death, you need to clearly ask the Medicaid caseworker IF your state allows for a diversion of the required SOC to pay the NH to instead partially go towards the costs of your home for a period of time while it is on the real estate market. For some states, in order to do this you have to have a signed Realtor contract for the 6 mo standard period and provide Medicaid with the MLS # on the property. It cannot be a ForSaleByOwner listing. You may be able to get $ 300 - 500 or so diverted from your SOC to pay for utilities or a special insurance rider to attach to your policy while it is being shown or for maintenance. This seems to be totally discretionary by your state program IF allowed and the amount and period of time. Someone - like a DPOA - will have to provide documentation on where the $ went. If you put the house on the market, I'd really suggest you push to get diversion to pay for the minimal house stuff. If family pays for things on the house, they likely cannot ever be reimbursed for those costs from the act of sale easily without placing a workman's or other lien on the property that has to be paid from the proceeds of the sale in order for lien to be lifted. Most of us do not have a business that enables us to do a workman's lien.
really look carefully at the costs to keeping your home and if it's realistic to keep it when you go into the NH for all involved.
Mike - so was this TOD a DIY project that you did? If not just who suggested you do this little nugget?
The problem is that by doing a TOD, it sets up for property (house, car, securities) to bypass probate. TOD = No probate. Probate is how recovery is done by MERP & is codified in federal regulations & state law to be done via probate. If you apply for medicaid, MERP is required to be done. By your doing a TOD, and doing it quite recently, it is viewed as done for medicaid avoidance. Your naming state as the TOD beneficiary doesn't work as MERP has to be done via probate or done via a default claim or lien on the assets of the estate for those that fail to do probate.
Out of curiosity, has anyone explained to you clearly how NH Medicaid works regarding your monthly income? For an individual NH medicaid, you are REQUIRED to do a SOC ( share of cost) or copay to the NH. All your monthly income less a small personal needs allowance (varies from $35-90 a month) MUST be paid to the NH. Like for my mom, her income $1800 a mo, so every month $1740 MUST be paid to NH. That $60 is maybe enough for beauty shoppe & in room phone or in room cable fees OR some clothing/toiletries replacement.
There realistically will be no - none - nada - of your $ to pay on house ever. So property taxes, insurance, utilites, yard, maintenance, etc will have to be paid by family or friends on the house for the rest of your lifetime and then afterwards as your estate goes through probate. If there is a mortgage (!!!), that too has to be paid. So just who in your family is going to pay for all on your house?. and be committed and able to do so from day 1 of NH admission to whenever probate and transfer or sale of the happens after your death?? And keep the meticulous records and receipts as to these costs to present to court & MERP???
Most of the time, this just flat is not feasible fair family to do. Perhaps everbody is OK for first few months.......but not for the possible years & years of your lifetime & post death probate & estate settlement to pay on a very very modest home worth 40K. Really speak with family on this.
Figure out what the true costs on the house is. Look to make sure your state has in its Medicaid regulations for exemptions or exclusions for property costs on an empty house. Then talk this over with family. If costs run about 10k a year & you live 3+ years in the NH, your heirs could find that MERP will not file a claim or lien as its just not cost effective because the property isn't worth very much at a 40k tax assessor value. But they will have to keep meticulous records on all expenses and file within the timeframe & rules set by your state for MERP & do whatever type of probate needed to close out on estate. It's not for everbody to be all OCD and proactive on this from now till beyond the homeowners death. For all these reasons, usually the NH residents old home gets sold & $ used towards spend down to qualify for Medicaid. 40k is pretty small- could pay for funeral & burial; new hearing aids & couple of pairs of eyeglasses; new NH friendly clothing; nicer walker; dental care. Really all those could easily use up 40k and could be a better use of time & $. But if family has the deeper wallet or purse (& a good sense of humor & no fear of risk), they can pay for house stuff then deal with MERP & probate with their own claim to hopefully get home. You need to clearly have a will or codicil naming whomever the heir is whomever is paying house costs.
To me, keeping the NH medicaid parent(s) property is like having the costs on a 2nd or third home but without any certainty or benefit of ownership.
Read Kansas Statute Chapter 59 Probate laws. Note that Kansas exempt the home from debts.(state law) BUT Medicaid is a FEDERAL law. So the feds require KHPA to go after the assets or lose federal funding. per KanCare: "The main example of this type of property is joint tenancy property or property transferred by a pay-on-death provision." Ask your attorney.
The deed itself states that Medicaid gets first choice at assets. It says: Except and subject to mtgs and claims of the state of kansas for medical assistance(Medicaid)....yes we want to avoid probate. All there is is a small home under 40,000 why probate and pay lawyer what we don't have
Clearly you have transferred the deed to avoid probate. MERP recovers assets via probate. So as long as you are hiding the asset, Medicaid will not give you coverage. It is that simple.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
The "intent to return" statement is a routine document required by state Medicaid program to be in compliance with federal regulations. It is an acknowledgement of a requirement of participation; if you do or don't sign it makes no difference. If you do, then easier for Medicaid. If you don't, it doesn't matter as by applying for Medicaid you agree to whatever conditions are set whether you sign off in agreement or not. In some states, if the property owner has a some significant health issues - like stage 3 or 4 cancers - they may not qualify to do the "intent to return" statement as they will have no ability to return due to the point they are with their terminal disease.
If you find that keeping the house is not going to be affordable for your family to pay from day 1 of NH till beyond death, you need to clearly ask the Medicaid caseworker IF your state allows for a diversion of the required SOC to pay the NH to instead partially go towards the costs of your home for a period of time while it is on the real estate market. For some states, in order to do this you have to have a signed Realtor contract for the 6 mo standard period and provide Medicaid with the MLS # on the property. It cannot be a ForSaleByOwner listing. You may be able to get $ 300 - 500 or so diverted from your SOC to pay for utilities or a special insurance rider to attach to your policy while it is being shown or for maintenance. This seems to be totally discretionary by your state program IF allowed and the amount and period of time. Someone - like a DPOA - will have to provide documentation on where the $ went. If you put the house on the market, I'd really suggest you push to get diversion to pay for the minimal house stuff. If family pays for things on the house, they likely cannot ever be reimbursed for those costs from the act of sale easily without placing a workman's or other lien on the property that has to be paid from the proceeds of the sale in order for lien to be lifted. Most of us do not have a business that enables us to do a workman's lien.
really look carefully at the costs to keeping your home and if it's realistic to keep it when you go into the NH for all involved.
The problem is that by doing a TOD, it sets up for property (house, car, securities) to bypass probate. TOD = No probate. Probate is how recovery is done by MERP & is codified in federal regulations & state law to be done via probate. If you apply for medicaid, MERP is required to be done. By your doing a TOD, and doing it quite recently, it is viewed as done for medicaid avoidance. Your naming state as the TOD beneficiary doesn't work as MERP has to be done via probate or done via a default claim or lien on the assets of the estate for those that fail to do probate.
Out of curiosity, has anyone explained to you clearly how NH Medicaid works regarding your monthly income? For an individual NH medicaid, you are REQUIRED to do a SOC ( share of cost) or copay to the NH. All your monthly income less a small personal needs allowance (varies from $35-90 a month) MUST be paid to the NH. Like for my mom, her income $1800 a mo, so every month $1740 MUST be paid to NH. That $60 is maybe enough for beauty shoppe & in room phone or in room cable fees OR some clothing/toiletries replacement.
There realistically will be no - none - nada - of your $ to pay on house ever. So property taxes, insurance, utilites, yard, maintenance, etc will have to be paid by family or friends on the house for the rest of your lifetime and then afterwards as your estate goes through probate. If there is a mortgage (!!!), that too has to be paid. So just who in your family is going to pay for all on your house?. and be committed and able to do so from day 1 of NH admission to whenever probate and transfer or sale of the happens after your death?? And keep the meticulous records and receipts as to these costs to present to court & MERP???
Most of the time, this just flat is not feasible fair family to do. Perhaps everbody is OK for first few months.......but not for the possible years & years of your lifetime & post death probate & estate settlement to pay on a very very modest home worth 40K. Really speak with family on this.
Figure out what the true costs on the house is. Look to make sure your state has in its Medicaid regulations for exemptions or exclusions for property costs on an empty house. Then talk this over with family. If costs run about 10k a year & you live 3+ years in the NH, your heirs could find that MERP will not file a claim or lien as its just not cost effective because the property isn't worth very much at a 40k tax assessor value. But they will have to keep meticulous records on all expenses and file within the timeframe & rules set by your state for MERP & do whatever type of probate needed to close out on estate. It's not for everbody to be all OCD and proactive on this from now till beyond the homeowners death. For all these reasons, usually the NH residents old home gets sold & $ used towards spend down to qualify for Medicaid. 40k is pretty small- could pay for funeral & burial; new hearing aids & couple of pairs of eyeglasses; new NH friendly clothing; nicer walker; dental care. Really all those could easily use up 40k and could be a better use of time & $. But if family has the deeper wallet or purse (& a good sense of humor & no fear of risk), they can pay for house stuff then deal with MERP & probate with their own claim to hopefully get home. You need to clearly have a will or codicil naming whomever the heir is whomever is paying house costs.
To me, keeping the NH medicaid parent(s) property is like having the costs on a 2nd or third home but without any certainty or benefit of ownership.
"The main example of this type of property is joint tenancy property or property transferred by a pay-on-death provision." Ask your attorney.