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She was out of her mind on Hospice at the end of life how could she legally sign anything? They have already been through her house in will spilt 50/50 so POA (Son) can't keep us out????? So after death POA is worthless????
POA ends at death. If there is a will the executor is now in charge of administering the estate, if there is no will each state has laws that deal with intestacy, if you wish to challenge a will then you need to see a lawyer.
My YB was mom's PoA---and after she died, her wishes were to have my other YB be her executor and he did. Altho PoA was mad as a hornet about that--he had to acquiesce. He still did a LOT of stuff that he shouldn't have (cleaned out her apartment with his family--a lot of stuff went missing!) and made some decisions that weren't what mom wanted.
The executor is what we call a Dr No-shot-meaning he simply doesn't do conflict, so he let it all go. The rest of us--no matter how WE felt about it, were asked to simply comply and not make a scene.
I hope for your sake you don't have that kind of dyamic going on. It's been hard.
You keep saying house is 50-50. I don't know what you mean by that. No POA can make your Mom's house 50-50.
If you mean executor then you are talking about a will, and I cannot know whether you are talking about a POA or a will. They are two entirely different things. One allows you to act for someone unable to act for themselves BEFORE death, and the other AFTER death.
As Mom is gone now her estate will be divided as directed in her will. If there is no will then it will be divided according to the laws of the state.
I would see an attorney so that the questions and answers are clear for you. I sure wish you the best.
Yes, the moment a person passes away the person who was legally assigned as their PoA no longer has any power unless they are also the Executor of the Will. The Executor of the Will (if your Mom assigned one) must begin to carry out the details of the funeral and burial she specified, and has the legal responsibility of dispensing with her estate and possessions as outlined in her Last Will and Testament. In many states her assets may need to go through probate, a legal process, before her assets and possessions can be distributed.
If she didn't leave a Will, then that's a different story.
Who is the executor of the will? IS there a will? Who has opened probate, because that person will be the one assigned by the courts as administrator of the estate.
You need to see a Trust and Estate Attorney ASAP, and I wish you luck.
Sandy, sorry but I'm still trying to understand. The son (your son? her son? your brother, step brother?) having POA is now meaningless because both medical and financial POA ended upon her death, he can't use either one any more.
WHAT position did he take - is there a new last will and testament naming him as executor and/or changing the conditions of her will or not?? And if her estate is being split 50/50 it seems as though you are not being disinherited so what exactly is it you want to happen instead?
Hospice wasn't the entity to decide if your mom could legally sign anything. Hospice provides end-of-life care, not legal services. Determining legal capacity is the job of the attorney who supervises the signing of the papers drawn up in his/her office. You need to consult a lawyer to find out if anything she signed was done in a legal manner. Do you have copies of these alleged documents?
As for how many people it took to get her into a car, that's irrelevant if her brain is capable of understanding what she was signing. When my dad reviewed his will for the last time before he died, it took three of us to get him in his car because his legs were no longer strong enough to support his weight. We helped him into the lawyer's office for a one-hour appointment. They went over the will, and dad signed codicils. He was certainly mentally capable as ascertained by his lawyer.
Who is Executor of the Will. Hope not the POA. The Executor can ask that everything taken be returned. The POA did not give the person holding it this kind of Power. If Executor and POA are one and the same, you may need a lawyer to tell them that everything needs to be returned. Check with Probate how this would work.
I think the POA was gotten illegally. I asked in your other post if it was witnessed and a notary involved. They have to be there when Mom signs it.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
My YB was mom's PoA---and after she died, her wishes were to have my other YB be her executor and he did. Altho PoA was mad as a hornet about that--he had to acquiesce. He still did a LOT of stuff that he shouldn't have (cleaned out her apartment with his family--a lot of stuff went missing!) and made some decisions that weren't what mom wanted.
The executor is what we call a Dr No-shot-meaning he simply doesn't do conflict, so he let it all go. The rest of us--no matter how WE felt about it, were asked to simply comply and not make a scene.
I hope for your sake you don't have that kind of dyamic going on. It's been hard.
If you mean executor then you are talking about a will, and I cannot know whether you are talking about a POA or a will. They are two entirely different things. One allows you to act for someone unable to act for themselves BEFORE death, and the other AFTER death.
As Mom is gone now her estate will be divided as directed in her will. If there is no will then it will be divided according to the laws of the state.
I would see an attorney so that the questions and answers are clear for you. I sure wish you the best.
If it was just the POA that is now totally irrelevant 🤔
If she didn't leave a Will, then that's a different story.
Who is the executor of the will? IS there a will? Who has opened probate, because that person will be the one assigned by the courts as administrator of the estate.
You need to see a Trust and Estate Attorney ASAP, and I wish you luck.
WHAT position did he take - is there a new last will and testament naming him as executor and/or changing the conditions of her will or not??
And if her estate is being split 50/50 it seems as though you are not being disinherited so what exactly is it you want to happen instead?
As for how many people it took to get her into a car, that's irrelevant if her brain is capable of understanding what she was signing. When my dad reviewed his will for the last time before he died, it took three of us to get him in his car because his legs were no longer strong enough to support his weight. We helped him into the lawyer's office for a one-hour appointment. They went over the will, and dad signed codicils. He was certainly mentally capable as ascertained by his lawyer.
https://www.agingcare.com/questions/sibling-tricked-dying-mother-to-change-poa-stage-4-cirrhosis-and-stage-3-renal-failure-could-hardly--480256.htm
Who is Executor of the Will. Hope not the POA. The Executor can ask that everything taken be returned. The POA did not give the person holding it this kind of Power. If Executor and POA are one and the same, you may need a lawyer to tell them that everything needs to be returned. Check with Probate how this would work.
I think the POA was gotten illegally. I asked in your other post if it was witnessed and a notary involved. They have to be there when Mom signs it.