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I was wondering what to do with a Father who is mentally ill but my mom has alzheimers and needs my help. I have been going over to my parents house for the past 6 months to help out my dad with mom who has alzheimers. My dad is just a hateful narcissitic crabby ill tempered old man. He has been like that his entire life. My bothers and sister have nothing to do with them anymore... all because of my dad. My mom is very sweet and I believe she has gotten better since I have been going over to their house to help... My father appreciates what I do... he tells me thanks sometimes when I leave... but I can't deal with his behavior towards me. I try to carry on a conversation with him... but with his mental issues... half the time he ends up yelling and cussing at me... for things like asking a question????? He has a horrible temper and needs help himself... my mom put up with his temper her whole life... she's an angel... I believe no one else would have... but anyway... he thinks he can treat me anyway he pleases... just because I am his daughter. He got mad at me last week because I literally just asked him a question he thought I should know the answer to... He was yelling and beligerant with me... just crazy stuff... so anyway I told him I was leaving and wouldn't come back. Now I don't know what to do......whether he's belittling me... telling me I don't know how to do anything right... whatever the reason... I can't deal with him anymore... I am feeling depressed and down a lot... just like I did growing up and having him as a father. ..it's like I am back in that time in my life again... that age again... and I hate it... I left home at 18 to get away from him... but I want to help my mother... I miss helping her... but I will not let my father destroy my happiness either. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated... thanks.

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PamelaAnn: You made the right decision. And by the way, I've never heard of someone getting better from Alzheimer's.
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It's positively surreal, dealing with my MIL who is pushing 80 but acts like a two year old (although a two year old would be more reasonable). Finally, I had to dust off my hands and retreat. She tells anyone who cares to listen that I'm guilty of elder abuse and she has the police report to prove it. *eyeroll*. NO ONE comes to see her because she's rude and mean and uncooperative. Very sad, but she has reaped what she's sown.
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Also.. My Dad is mean and ill tempered and has been as long as I can remember...and has admitted to me once a couple years ago he thinks he does have some mental issues...I will be doing some reading up on narccisistic behavior.I know caregiving to my mom is very difficult....but he should never talk to her the way he does and lose his temper with her also...I do know that's the worst thing you can do with someone who has alzheimers.It makes it so difficult to want to be there when he's around.I also may say if he doesn't want me to be there I will bring her to my house and visit with her that way.
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Hi, I deal with a situation close to yours. We've had police out, APS out, family members tried to "reason" with the folks etc etc. Being the daughter who took on the parenting role of both parents has and continues to be a challenge. It really is a situation that is further complicated by dysfunction and neediness. By now the pattern is set in how your folks deal with one another, and ANY personality disorder is now on steroids in my eyes. Anyway, I've been to support groups and all say the same thing.... take care of yourself first. I get it in my brain, but like you, my heart wants to help my declining mom. When my dad gets too intense, I take my mom on an outing which sometimes is just literally going outside to putter in the garden to get some alone time with her. I've found that removing her from the environment of being around her grumpy hubby is often therapeutic for all of us. Since my mom almost never "wants" to go anywhere or do anything, I tell her I need her help and how much I need her. Since I've learned she hangs out with my dad because she thinks he needs her, if I can tap into that need of hers to be needed, it sometimes works to get her away from my dad which gives him a break from constant worry about my mom( which often manifests as anger and tantrums aimed at nearest target-me). Sometimes he is just unbearable and my mom refuses to leave his side. On those occasions, I do leave them to fend for themselves because as I've learned to accept the fact if something bad happens, then it will just have to happen and repeat the mantra to take care of myself first. (In our case APS and police won't do anything until something bad happens apparently) Since I've been there to rescue my folks, I've found that I've created a safety net that prevents outside services from intervention. So, as mentioned previously, it's a stressful situation and every family has to deal with it in their own way. I hope you get some ideas and perspectives from which to draw your next strategy from these responses. Hugs to you from a fellow traveler on the dementia journey.
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I want to give you all a big thank you and (((HUGS))) for the comment and suggestions you have given me...I have talked with my husband and I think I will be going over there in the next day or so...and tell him that I don't want him yelling and cussing at me or mom anymore.I will leave anytime he starts it up..... and I know now not try to talk sense in to him about how he's talking to me because he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong when he does it.He definitely some needs "boundrys".I already do take my mom with me to lunch or shop to get her out of the house and away from dad for a while.My mom is only 78 and my dad is 83.He says very mean and ugly things to my mom too...he is not a good person at all to help out someone with alzheimers.I sure hope He is willing to stop it.I want to be around to help....It's been 9 days since I have seen my mom and I miss her desperately...I will be trying some of your suggestions...Bless you all!
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I second the earbuds answer. My dad had gone back to a very old behavior that I hadn't seen in years after my mom died. I was being called ignorant, dumba**, stupid, etc.. He was starting to do it to my 13 year old son as well. I called him out on his behavior several times which would work for awhile but he would eventually revert back within weeks. Now, if he blurts that kind of stuff out I just tell him that he needs to apologize immediately or leave, it's his choice. His embarrassment at having to apologize is what has really put a stop to it. I told him tnat I understand he gets frustrated when things don't go his way but that we aren't here to be his whipping boys.

Ear buds will put a stop to the behaviors in the mean time. Put them on while cleaning or doing laundry. If he stops getting a reaction or the fight he's looking for, then there's no point in engaging you is there? As others have said, try to get your mom out if you can. For lunch, hair appointments, nail appointments, window shopping, lunch in the park, etc.. This will also give your dad some private time to himself which may be very helpful to his mental health. I've no doubt that caregiving has been hard on him too and some time truly alone may do wonders for his sour attitude. It will give him some time to miss you both as well, the value of which cannot be understated.

These behaviors can be very difficult to stop but they can eventually be made more manageable.
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I would like to share a similar situation. Dad was no so nice growing up. He had anger issues. Now Mom, age 81, is on a walker for 3 years. Dad is 86 and getting stressed out by her increased dependence on him. He drives and heats up most meals. She has major anxiety that has increased. She drives him nuts with questions and anxiety every day. I have commiserated with him but he just sent her a nasty note not to bother him with questions before breakfast or when driving when he cannot control other drivers. Suggestions? I've have told them they are both pushing me away and making it harder to help them. I have a brother to help but he has 2 full time jobs.
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Hi, my mother is 81 and on a walker. She has major anxiety and has for most of her life. SHe's on some meds from the neurologist. She has become so dependent on my 87 yr old father. I realize that he's getting meaner (he was not always nice growing up) as the pressure is on him from my Mom's anxiety and being a caregiver. He wrote her a nasty note that she is not to ask him anyq uestions before breakfast or when he's driving and things are out of his control. Suggestions ? I have told him that I empathize with him about Mom's constant questions and nagging but I also have some bitterness on how he treats her (and did treat Mom in the past and us when kids).
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I might write down all of the things that you have observed about your father and consult with an attorney regarding your mother's rights. If he is abusive to a disabled person, that is illegal and unacceptable. I'd pursue ways to correct the situation. If she is incompetent, you might pursue Guardianship in order to make decisions on her behalf or have someone else appointed Guardian, like the County. The goal being to protect her from abuse. The attorney should be able to provide you with the evidence you need, how the process works, the costs, etc.

Is it possible that he treats you terribly, but, treats mom wonderfully? I'd discuss that with the attorney to find some options.
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katiekate, I agree that's the best way to handle it. That's what I've been doing for the first time in my life and it's working. They need to understand boundaries and consequences.
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I applaud you for trying to seek positive options... in reading your post, my first thought was ear buds and wonderful, uplifting music... :) Past that, you have a variety of viable options posted here. Only you can pick what best fits your personality and the situation. My Dad did this behaviour to my sister and me, we, however, set our boundaries. One vivid memory is when he was cussing at her - and in a calm voice my sister told him - "If you are going to cuss at me, I'm leaving and you might notice there is not a line of folks at the door, waiting to come in here and help out." Apparently, something clicked with this reality, cause he started to observe the boundary. Bless you, for your willingness to serve your family, as you move forward remember our treasures are stored above, your unselfish efforts will not go unnoticed. :)
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I applaud you for trying to seek positive options... in reading your post, my first thought was ear buds and wonderful, uplifting music... :) Past that, you have a variety of viable options posted here. Only you can pick what best fits your personality and the situation. My Dad did this behaviour to my sister and me, we, however, set our boundaries. One vivid memory is when he was cussing at her - and in a calm voice my sister told him - "If you are going to cuss at me, I'm leaving and you might notice there is not a line of folks at the door, waiting to come in here and help out." Apparently, something clicked with this reality, cause he started to observe the boundary. Bless you, for your willingness to serve your family, as you move forward remember our treasures are stored above, your unselfish efforts will not go unnoticed. :)
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Pamela, I'm going to go against the flow here. I'm sure my daughters could have written your letter about me. But let me take your Dad's side for a moment. As you read through this site you will see hundreds of letters about the stress of caregiving. Most people do not understand that and are unable to handle it. So, try being a little empathetic towards you Dad. Offer to take care of your Mom while he takes a break to get a haircut or shop or just go for a cup of coffee with a friendBeing in your Dad's position, I can tell you he needs you. He needs you tohelp him cope with the lack of sleep, the stress of taking care of a wife doesn't understand what is happening to her.
He does not need someone who is angry because he moved further away from her, who feels she knows what to do better than the Doctor, who constantly points out what he is doing wrong but is never there to help. In other words he does not need a daughter who expresses the seemingly common ide of younger people today, "I want it MY way" or "If you don't agree with me, I hate you". Just maybe if you remove the chip from your shoulder and instead to telling him what needs to done, ask him how you can help. Like I said, he may just need caring, loving help. At least I do.
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My Dad was just like that.

My brother called him at my request. My brother read him the riot act. Told him..you both with be in separate nursing home if you don't knock off the sh*t. Told him..you depend on your daughter..you better act like it or you will be forced by social services to leave your home!

It worked. I noticed right away...no more trash talk. He would still grumble to himself. He would still say sh*t with a "stage whisper". But, the crap stopped. He was never pleasant to be around, but leave Mom without care was not an option. My brother was never going to come and help...but he made that call.
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Hi PamelaAnn,

Maybe you could take your mom out for meals or fun, drop off books, groceries, supplies and clean laundry, hire house cleaners or take her to your home for a few days at a time.

My dad was a sociopath and a nasty piece of work and as he aged got worse and worse. Luckily he and my mother split when I was 16. I tried to have a relationship with him after that but we were mostly estranged until he died at 86.

My mother has narcissistic personality disorder. She's much more personable than my dad but she was jealous of me and scapegoated me all of my life until I also became estranged from her for about 15 years. I recently moved back to her city a few months ago because I missed having a mom and knew she probably doesn't have much longer.

I learned a lot about her personality disorder while I was gone and now when she lies or manipulates I call her on it and tell her that it's wrong and that I won't put up with it. That helps a lot--it's like shining a flashlight on something she thought she'd hidden.

You might try calling your dad on his meanness and point out that it hurts your mom by causing you not to come around. These mean people seem to live forever...
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Pamela, Browsing around this forum you will notice that you are not alone in being abused by a narcissistic parent. It's not a lot of consolation but I have found some solace in just reading of other people's experience. The only thing that helps me cope is accepting that nobody can change an elder's narcissism ; you can only try to not take it personally, considering the source as you would for a toddler. I know it's tough, since we the children of such people are (were) often conditioned from an early age to respect our parents, no matter what. Hang in there
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Hi pamelaann, and the nice answer-ers so far. Definitely, my reading up on borderline personality helped me in dealing with my mom... You do learn perspective and tools, and you can get more respect out of them, usually, by setting your own new rules. One thing that always works for me is having someone else there. Try asking a friend or associate at church or civic group to come with you, for a small fee or treat like coffee afterwards, to come every single time. Go only when they're available to come along. Or call some caregiver agencies and find one who's flexible enough to offer this service at a reasonable fee.

I hope I'm saying this right, but it's almost certain she's not getting adequate care so you may need to get moving with her doctor to evaluate the next proper move for her. Good luck, I know it's so hard to feel how you felt back then... remind yourself that it's a completely different time and place, and you can do more for yourself now to keep him from even reaching you emotionally. You're like Hebrew National hot dogs, and you answer to an even higher authority! I try to see how amusing it is that my mother thinks hers is the final word on whether I'm a good person, am acceptable, etc. I answer to me and my maker, not her. Hugs.
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Is your father mentally ill, or is he "just" a hateful, crabby, ill-tempered narcissistic etc.? It's possible to be both, of course; but the reason it matters is to do with whether or not he can be reasonably expected to support a person with Alzheimers Disease living at home. If he's mentally ill, as in diagnosed ill, then I'd suggest not and you'd better refer them as a couple to APS.
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Dear PamelaAnn,

Sorry to hear what you have been going through. It is tough. And you have to protect yourself as well. Because you miss your mom, do you think there is any chance she would consider moving out? It can't be easy on her not to see you anymore. Or maybe just take your mom out of the house, so you can have a girls day without your dad.
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Hi, Pamela. My heart goes out to you. I am the daughter of a narcissistic mother, and she is now 90. She lives independently with my help. About 15 years ago, I was in your shoes, and couldn't take it any more. So I educated myself about the narcissist personality, started setting boundaries with her, stopped participating in her rants, and slowly but surely have a better relationship with her. It's still very difficult at times, but I made it clear that if she wants my help, she has to rein it in and be respectful of me. Before you go back, read about what you are dealing with, and how you can protect yourself if you want to help your parents. The moment your father doesn't respect you, even if its shortly after you get there, stay calm and tell him you have to leave because of his behavior. You didn't mention your parents' ages, but senile dementia can impact your father's personality and outbursts as well. He may need to be evaluated by his doctor to see if there is any need for medication. My mother is on medication that helps her be less combative. I have had private meetings with her doctor about what I'm dealing with, but it is clear in doctor visits, too. Talking to professionals about your situation will give you the support and strength to develop clear and steadfast boundaries that should make it easier to help your mother and deal with your father. I wish you the best!
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Pamela, you made the smart decision stepping back. I seriously don't know what to advise, because I know you want to see your mother. I have the feeling that your father will stay the same. Whatever makes him mad will be your fault in his mind. Since he is your father he will feel that he has the right to do and say things. Parents can forget that we're adults now. In their minds we are often seen as willful teenagers. It does get tiring.

If you think you can, you can listen to him with half an ear and still continue to see your mother. You'll have to find something that works for you. It could be that he is feeling a lot of angst, worrying about your mother. That added onto the original personality and the crankiness of age is making him unreasonable to be around. Maybe saying something like "Will you quit being so mad all the time" would work (but may make it worse). You know him well, so you might be able to figure out a way to calm him down long enough to visit. Good luck! I do empathize with what you're going through. Parents are always right even we're they're not.
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