Follow
Share

My mom is "her way or the highway" w/ mid stage Alzheimer's. She is always right and thinks she is perfectly fine and remembers exactly what happened 100% total denial of any memory issues ever. In this instance I am stuck with a big problem, if I lie, tell the truth do anything other than agree with my mom she insists we are wrong. period, you could not reason with her before dementia but not now at all. She had a caregiver go to the store to get her cigs but then without her knowledge used the card to get over $1200 cash back over 2 days of which she pocketed. She didn't know we watch the bank records closely & caught it immediately fired her, filed a police report etc (she was the only one that could of used the card and on camera during this time etc) mom was amazed this could happen. Well it's all changed around now in her mind and now we fired her needlessly - because she asked for the money to pay a bill and we are wrong and she wants her back now and we are to blame and we wrongfully accused her and she's been calling her cell phone etc it goes on and on. Her whole story as to her not stealing the cash is 100% made up. She won't accept ANY other care and is so messed up this is really throwing her but insists we are wrong and to hell with us she wants her back she did nothing wrong . Very mean insistent etc and won't let it go it's been 3 weeks.

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Find Care & Housing
What do you mean when you say "won't accept any other care"?

Is your mother physically capable of blockading the door?

Do you think it might be time to place her in a facility?

You seem to be saying mom was stubborn and willfull BEFORE dementia. This type of patient rarely gets optimal treatment.

I would chalk this up to her personality and simply say "she's not coming back, mom" and leave it at that.
Helpful Answer (6)
Report
Sunshinejello Jul 2021
She is physically amazing gets around just fine but the alzheimer's is so evident on every thing out of her routine. Because she is such a type A personality you can't discuss anything with her the Alzheimer's Association said try to make things " her idea " try to make it like she thought it up or it was her suggestion and that does work if you can get to that point.
(2)
Report
Let her insist you’re wrong, it changes nothing and doesn’t hurt anything. You know her diagnosis and that she’s no longer capable of good decisions so no arguing, just accepting that you now make the best decisions you can for her, whether she likes it or not. Hire a new caregiver if that’s what she needs. Block the number of the fired one on mom's phone. I’m sorry you’re dealing with such tough behavior, never let it make you feel like you’re not looking out for mom, even though she can’t appreciate it
Helpful Answer (8)
Report
Sunshinejello Jul 2021
ok you hit the nail on the head for me! She is incompetent and she makes me feel like the bad daughter i have to let it go, even though it's repeated every day. I blocked the number but it doesn't stop my mom from dialing her! Mom still calls her every day and at least leaves a short message i know this from the phone records. thank you for replying it made me feel better i'm trying to get a new careperson so far it's not happening she refuses anyone. One person said tell her a caregiver or a facility- i like the idea however again there is no rationalizing at all with her she just isn't capable. she will just continue the rant "i want her back!" " you are wrong she never took any money" "you aren't here you don't know anything". This site has been so helpful on many topics . thanks again.
(3)
Report
A good idea would be to pay as much attention to who's hired to care for your mom as you do to monitoring her financial activity.
Your mother has in your own words "mid stage Alzheimer's". Should she still be in possession of an ATM card attached to an active bank account?

No. She shouldn't be.

Her family should be getting her cigarettes and doing her shopping. If mom needs the caregiver to run some errand which requires payment, you or another family member should have the cash waiting ahead of time for when the caregiver comes.
Also, lock up things like jewelry, checkbooks, credit cards, etc... when someone has Alzheimer's/dementia and there is going to be caregivers coming into their home. This is common sense.

Your mother will not accept or admit that she is wrong. People without Alzheimer's often refuse to admit fault on anything.
If your mom is insistent and refuses to cooperate with any other caregiver, then bring the thieving one back. Just make sure she has no access to money or valuables.
You know, as wrong as it is, your mom may very well have given her permission to take that $1,200 and the caregiver accepted. Nursing home social workers and admin staff are not above accepting the permission some elderly person with dementia or Alzheimer's to get into a bank account or acquire a POA. Yet, their thieving is perfectly legal and acceptable.
The nursing home my father was in actually wanted me to hold his hand and forge his signature on paperwork granting them permission to run up his credit cards for the monthly room and board costs.
Bring that caregiver back if your mom gets along with her. Just keep an eye on things and make sure neither of them have access to a bank account or anything valuable.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report
Sunshinejello Jul 2021
We have been getting all her groceries & usually cigarettes but you can't have cigarettes delivered and you are not supposed to ship them. So sometimes she would run low. we used visa gift cards but mom had insisted on keeping one bank card to allow her to go get her cigarettes once in awhile. i fully agree no more of that period and so she no longer has a bank card but this is a strong A type woman she will throw a fit if she knew she doesn't have the bank card so i replaced it with a visa gift card ! When this all happened she knew nothing of it she would never ever even with dementia allow her caregiver to get that kind of money as she is tight on money and receipts and her money is a huge deal to her after all she is a depression child that's why she still had the bank card. on the days in question my mom asked her for the receipt and the caregiver said she didn't have it would give it to her the next time she saw her. There's of course more to the story the caregiver was working her for money here and there telling her she loved her and telling her all her problems (made up) so my mom would feel sorry for her. my antenna was already up but my mom makes life so much harder than it has to be. This forum helps so much to realize you are doing the best you can given the circumstances!
(8)
Report
See 2 more replies
In this case, No matter what your mothers say, can't bring that care giver back. Look for an agency. For future caregivers: you can also have a prepaid card. Put certain amount, over can't be withdrawn.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

Do not allow that caregiver back into your moms house. I am glad you filed a police report. In the future I would not allow any caregiver access to credit/debit cards. There is always delivery service you can set up and pay yourself with your moms card.
Helpful Answer (7)
Report
Sunshinejello Jul 2021
She was from an agency ! And the agency never returned a call after I called to fire her and tell them what happened. It is sad - this agency used to be highly recommended but they did nothing, said nothing, did not offer a replacement and i think may still be sending her to clients! The police report is there. I have to say my vibe from this person was already heightened when she'd missed some appointments and the story was always a good one my mother felt sorry for her.
(4)
Report
While it may be a little underhanded, you could tell mom you called and she doesn't work there anymore.
Helpful Answer (7)
Report
disgustedtoo Jul 2021
Fibs R Us!!!

That was going to be my suggestion. Drop the chit chat about stealing and just say she no longer works as a care-giver. Great that you've blocked the number, but sad that she can still call the person. Okay if she leaves messages, because the woman can't call her back, but... You could try calling her service provider to see if there is a way to block her from making calls to certain numbers. There is at least one APP out there that can do this:
https://pocketables.com/2013/05/block-outgoing-calls-app-lets-you-loan-your-phone-in-peace.html

Disclaimer: I know nothing about this APP or company. I don't add APPs to my phone and ignore any calls that aren't programmed in my phone. I won't call any back either, so I don't need this capability. But, I think there are also phones made for those with dementia that only allow certain numbers for incoming/outgoing calls.

I would NOT give this woman a second chance, despite what some have said. You have a police report already. Should she do something else, then who is going to believe you, since you brought her back? Nope, done.

So, for mom, after repeating that this woman isn't taking clients, mom gets to choose:

1) another care-giver
2) facility

Those are the options mom. Make your choice.

Agree with advice about the card (good that you've taken it away!) One thing to confirm is that any debit/visa prepaid card doesn't have any kind of overdraft associated with it. Load with a minimal amount and if it's used up, no more buying until it's reloaded!

Also, yes to the ignore what she says about you. Most of it is the dementia talking, but in some cases the person was like that before. YOU have value, YOU are doing a great service for your mother, SHE is ungrateful (partly due to D, maybe some just because.) WE appreciate you and your service!
(2)
Report
It's never a good idea to give other people access to a bank account or credit card belonging to a person with dementia. I think it's better to have cash around for household expenses. At least the damage will be limited. And when "strangers" are in the house, lock up all financial papers and valuables. At this point, it would be better if all financial statements are sent only to the Power of Attorney's (POA) (for financial matters) place. Hopefully all of your mother's paperwork for POAs (medical and financial), living will, will (if there are assets), etc. are in place. I wouldn't recommend taking back a person who steals. Don't lie. Find another agency, if this one isn't responsive. Try getting another caregiver who suits your mother, but remember also that people in her condition may be particularly vulnerable and may not make good decisions. It sounds like she likes caregivers who are friendly and talkative. You can also look into adult day care where she will leave the house and have some activities that get her with other people, if this is available in her area. Sometimes they have shuttle buses that pick up the clients. Find out what options are available in her area.
Helpful Answer (7)
Report

I know it’s a fabrication but could you tell mom that it isn’t you preventing her from coming back, she was caught on camera steeling the money and the police have stopped her from caring for people any more…she got fired from the agency for steeling from others as well and was caught in camera doing it? Something that takes the ownus off of you and off of her (others started the ball rolling)?
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
babziellia Jul 2021
Also, make sure to include that the police confirmed this woman is a pathological liar and cin artist. That way, if she calls your Mom, you can refute anything the woman tells her.

When it comes to little white lies to protect your LO, I'm all for them.
(4)
Report
See 2 more replies
Even if what mom is saying is true I would not hire back a person that I fired. I would offer to provide references (if what your mom perceives is true, I would obviously not provide them for someone that stole)
Tell mom that the person is working for someone else. Block the number on all the phones.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

if your mother is that bad with memory you need to take away all credit/debit cards as she should not be using them, let alone giving them to someone else to use. she is lucky it was only that amount of money. and shame on that "so-called" caregiver to take advantage of someone who is losing their memory. You did the right thing. Tell your mom that the decision has been made and no more talking about it. she won't like it and will squawk about it forever but it is what it is. Tell her that the girl quit working for that company so you need to find someone else. I would also install some hidden cameras in the house so that you can see what is going on when you are not there. And not sure what your future plans are for your mother, whether to keep her in the house which you realize will require more and more intense work for bathing, bathroom, etc and IF you don't feel you would be able to handle that, get in touch with an elder attorney NOW so you can get things ready for when the time comes whether you need in-home care or whether you place her. They can help with all aspects of the future for your mothers care (medicare, medicaid). I would not let your mother also have access to a phone (if possible) as she might end up making calls to "who knows where" and rack up enormous phone bill or call 911 by accident and report being hurt, etc., then you need to prove that you haven't done anything etc. I sure wish you luck.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report
babziellia Jul 2021
When my Mom asks for her checkbook, credit cards, etc., I can never seem to remember where they are or have time to search for them on her room.
:)
(2)
Report
See 1 more reply
My mother was the exact same way in terms of never being wrong and not ever letting things go. She’d get on a subject or have a thought pattern and you couldn’t change her mind. We had a very similar problem with a part time live in caregiver who we thought was not only taking money from her but was also leaving the house in a horrible mess. We didn’t ask her to do any cleaning per se but did expect her to keep the room she was staying in in decent shape. Finally the hardest thing we had to realize was that despite my mother’s rather significant degree of dementia, she wasn’t at the point to be declared totally incompetent. She was great at “faking good” in front of a doctor or government official. My sisters and I all lived out of state and my mother insisted she was fine and wasn’t moving! I had POA but couldn’t do much since she was considered competent to make decisions. We called APS to come out and they refused to get involved as WE were involved so closely and all in all she looked pretty good. We tried everything to have her move into an AL facility or to at least move closer to one of us. She refused. Finally we decided we would have to let her fail and this is what happened. As sad as it is sometimes, parents have to sometimes FAIL and as children we have little choice but to keep as close an eye out as possible until they do. Fortunately my mother FAILED while we were visiting her. She fell during a time that my husband and I were there for a few days and while the caregiver was gone. Sadly she broke her hip and shoulder and from that point forward we were able to facilitate a placement after her rehab. The caregiver was removed from the home and it was at that point we found out just how horrible and nasty things had really gotten in the bedroom in which the caregiver stayed. There were bugs due to have eaten food in drawers and trash everywhere. All the alcohol that had been in a closed liquor cabinet was gone. The caregiver had told us she didn’t drink. I say all this to let you know that this is a VERY difficult situation and there is little to no control. There is no reasoning that will work and you never know what you’re getting with caregivers. Be kind to yourself, do what you can but sometimes people simply have to fail to some degree before they will accept help. Best of luck…
Helpful Answer (6)
Report
disgustedtoo Jul 2021
"I had POA but couldn’t do much since she was considered competent to make decisions."

If it's any consolation, even if they HAVE dementia, POAs are not sufficient to "force" any changes, like a move to facility. My mother's plans, pre-dementia, included AL. Post-dementia? She refused to consider moving anywhere, esp NOT AL. The EC atty told me we could force her to move. POAs only give us legal capability to do certain things, like manage finances, pay bills, sign documents, etc. They do NOT give us full sway over anyone.

I can feel for you about her being able to "fool" others. Although the atty recommended going for guardianship, there were issues:
1) She likely would have been able to pass the "tests" at that point
2) It takes time and money to get that done and may fail
3) The facility we chose wouldn't take committals!

That last one was the real clincher. The place was great, the location ideal for me (99.9% of all that was needed I had to manage) and being non-profit it was actually less expensive than the other options we looked at.

Cue Fibs R Us. She managed to injure her shin and develop cellulitis just before the move was scheduled. Trip to the ER with OB who came up for the move and antibiotics, wound treatment, etc. YB drafted a "letter" from 'Elder Services' that said she goes to a place we choose or they will place her! She was madder than a wet hen, but reluctantly went with the bros.
(2)
Report
See 1 more reply
Something doesn't add up here...most any caregiver, especially agency, knows families watch credit card expenses like a hawk. There are thieves that can steal card info with devices, then use it shortly after...that happened to me once. But you say this is on camera. Did the police investigate, arrest, or what?
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

You need to get mom evaluated asap.
* Change credit card, all bank cards.
* Report this woman / caregiver, esp if you have proof.
What you can NO LONGER do is 'think' you can reason with your mother.
You cannot.
Of course she will argue and complain. This is part of dementia.
You can no longer talk to her as she used to be before dementia. Her brain has changed.
IF there is nothing legal you can do to safe guard her accounts, then she will suffer the consequences, financially. However, if I were you, I'd run to the nearest elder care attorney and see what you can do.
* Her MD needs to provide / write up / document her diagnosis.
* Do press charges regarding this caregiver stealing. It DOESN'T matter what your mother wants in this regard. Get rid of her.
AND . . . . As Wolflover says: "if your mother is that bad with memory you need to take away all credit/debit cards as she should not be using them, let alone giving them to someone else to use. she is lucky it was only that amount of money. and shame on that "so-called" caregiver to take advantage of someone who is losing their memory. You did the right thing. Tell your mom that the decision has been made and no more talking about it. she won't like it and will squawk about it forever but it is what it is." . . . . Your mom will MORE THAN SQUAWK. Say "I understand" and do what you need to do.

Gena / Touch Matters
Helpful Answer (9)
Report

Good advice on this thread. I wouldn't take her back, and I would fire the agency too. If your Mom's insurance is paying that agency, then file a grievance with the insurance company too. If a hospital or facility recommended the agency, then file a grievance against the agency with the hospital or facility.

Additionally, I would delete that woman's and the agency contact info from your Mom's phone and clear out her history. Erase any trace of these problem people- biz cards, binders, folders, etc. from your mother's reach. If you need to keep records, put them in a file case and keep it in YOUR car.

Then tell your mom that the agency no longer takes her insurance, went defunct, doesn't have enough staff, whatever, etc. You can even tell Mom that a different client had the caregiver arrested for stealing and the state is investigating the agency.

At this point, do and say whatever works. Less is more. Other than that, if Mom continues to ask about the caregiver, either you pelt your mom with questions about what she needs at this moment/what can I help you with, immediately change the subject, or ignore her and walk away.
Helpful Answer (10)
Report
disgustedtoo Jul 2021
All of the above!
(5)
Report
Can you take away your mother’s phone so the con artist and she can’t communicate?

For safety purposes install a Brinks/ADT type service which includes smoke detector alarm which alerts the monitoring site, so if there’s a fire the fire department is automatically notified to respond.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

If the police think the evidence you have is enough to actually file on this woman then hire her back and don't let her get the card to use.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report
cherokeegrrl54 Jul 2021
Your answer makes no sense. Would you even hire someone back that had stolen a substantial amount from you or your parent???
(6)
Report
NO WAY have her back no matter what Mommy says. Hope you or police are filing charges. Don't let her be loose out there to prey on other innocents. And going forward take away all but a minimal amount of cash for mom to have on hand, and you keep all her cards, checking etc.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

1) report the caregiver to aging and protective services, provide them with copies of the police reports, and proof you have. They may be able to take legal action to prevent her from working in this field in the future.

2) report the agency to aging and protective services. The agency may not be able to reveal employee information to you but aging services can make sure they are not using her now.

3) set up a separate account with only enough money for once a week emergency smokes, milk, etc. ($50 or less). Mom might be upset when she runs out of money in that account, you can ask her for receipts to " figure out why that happened ". That way she has some limited control.

Gold luck.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

ArtistDaughter,

You're right about maybe leaving a specific amount of money if there's something the caregiver has to shop for.
I had an elderly couple where I would use their credit card to do groceries, pharmacy, etc... and then save all the receipts.
What was then easier is I would pay for whatever they needed, save all the receipts and then would be paid a separate check from my paycheck on payday. The elderly couple I did this for never had cash around and I didn't want to run into problems using someone else's credit card.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

Unfortunately, Your mom does not remember the facts of the incident. She only remembers this person as her caregiver. A truth she might be able to accept is that "she is not available as a caregiver anymore" (since we caught her stealing from you) is probably the best way to get you mom to stop as insisting this person care for her. Follow this up with, "We have contacted another nice person to care for you. Please giver her a try." Then, change the subject. Once the new person is becomes the "usual caretaker" in her mind, she should stop obsessing about the person your fired.
Helpful Answer (7)
Report

Show her the police report. If you know a cop, have him come and tell her the lady has charges against her for the stolen money. By all means, 'lose' the card so mom can't give it to anyone else. It's possible mom did tell the caretaker to get some money to pay a bill - you will probably never know.

You take the same risk with anyone who is hired if they also handle credit card use to buy mom things. I'd figure out a different way to get her what she needs.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report
cherokeegrrl54 Jul 2021
I agree with others, it’s probably time to place in memory care. And do not give her any cards. How else are you going to handle this problem, and if the caregiver took the $1200.00 and there is video proff, she should be charged.. im sorry your mom is so cantankerous…..blessings to you to make the right decision so your mom wont be taken advantage of again…
(2)
Report
Oh I remember that caregiver! She moved house didn't she? To.. where was it.. Florida, Texas, NY (insert somewhere far away from you).

Small whitish lie.. but she probably has moved..
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

Perhaps it's time your mother goes to a care facility with memory care.
Helpful Answer (3)
Report

Imho, your mother has a disease of the brain so her recollection is flawed. It's best to find another caregiver.
Helpful Answer (2)
Report

You need to take and keep control. Be firm.

It is hard to switch roles with your parent, but when incapacity creeps in, things will only get worse, so establish yourself as the leader. This topic is not up for discussion. Period.

This firm stance and your leadership role will actually be comforting to your parent eventually.

A stealing caregiver needs to be immediately fired, reported to the police and the locks need to be changed. A security system should be considered to protect against the fact that the caregiver understands your schedule and your parent’s vulnerabilities.
Helpful Answer (4)
Report

Tell your mother that the old caregiver moved, and you will be finding another person.
Dont let her get into the topic, change the topic or walk away. They can cycle around and talk about it for hours and it is illogical and exhausting.
Helpful Answer (5)
Report

Tell her the caregivers in Alcatraz.
Helpful Answer (1)
Report

This question has been closed for answers. Ask a New Question.
Ask a Question
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter