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I provide 24/7 care no outside caregivers family can come when ever I DO NOT GET PAID but we all live together in GMA in-laws home. It sucks I'm stressed and just sent my youngest to kindergarten. I want a break more than a paycheck honestly. THERE isn't an amount of money I could put on my sanity.
Have you spoken with the attorney who drafted the POA? How was s/he convinced to reassign POA following her loss of capacity? I also don't understand your statement that he will continue to live in the house following her death when you will be the titled owner. Please explain.
Your elder care lawyer surely should be able to give you some solid answers, I would think. I had a very simple caregiver contract with mom's lawyer (that he charged me $1000 to draw up) for 2 years of the 3 years that I cared for mom in my home. As I've said elsewhere, I'd been let go from my employment at the age of 60 and got an STNA, though that was not necessary. At the lawyer's suggestion, I was paid $12 per hour, 8 hours per day, 7 days per week. The second year, I took a cut and just did the $12 per hour, 8 hours per day, 5 days per week. My tax lady said I did not need to pay taxes for those 2 years; we put it down I was retired, period. Not a fortune, but I truly had no problems financially in those two years. When I lost my job, I immediately got out from under a mortgage, took that cash and bought another house in a rougher neighborhood. No regrets. Having no debt is wonderful, and it can be done. I have money saved and do get a pension with my social security since I officially retired in January of this year at 62. I dissolved the caregiver contract after putting mom in a nursing home. (She'd been sicker than a dog, hospitalized with pneumonia after Christmas, was falling constantly, and I'd frankly had enough since she was at best uncooperative anyway). Anyway, all turned out pretty well. Mom's doing fine in the nursing home, and I have dinner with her nightly since the NH is only blocks away from me.
I am with Katie, I cared for mom for four years. Twisted sisters were concerned about their inheritance and thought room and board was enough. That four years cost me nearly 500k probably more. Offer to help that partner and find out first hand how difficult the work is.
When I think back to the time I was the caregiver for my parents. I had "free" room and board. There were also 2 in-home caregivers that did about 10 hours a day between them.
I wasn't paid...but..$25,000 a year is laughable for pay to do that job! Yeah..even twice that would not be enough.
But, I remember my brother constantly trying to get his nose in. I believe he only wanted money. Only wanted to figure out if I was "wasting" their money on their care. He wanted to do whatever he could to ensure his inheritance. Well phooey on that!
I did not provide any documentation to him...I was not required to...plus their financial information was none of his business.
You took this to APS. I assure you they investigated.
I think you are like my brother...trying to get into the middle where you do not belong.
If you feel you have a case...go to court and get guardianship,if you can. Otherwise...do what you can to mend the relationship with the man who is caring hands-on for your mother.
He does seem to be in position to exploit your mother. How long have they known each other? How old is he? Try substituting "my father" for "live-in partner." Would the situation take on a different nuance? What if they married instead of deciding just to live together? How would that change your view, if at all?
Does her partner hold a job? Or does he stay home all day so that Mother can have a two-person lift at all times? If it really takes two people to care for Mother, then the "professional" (means they took an 8-hour class and are being paid) caregivers can't really do it alone, can they?
If they've had a long-term, loving relationship, and APS and a lawyer can't tell you what actions to take, maybe you should just butt out.
If the relationship has been abusive or exploitative from the beginning, that is a different matter, but then a lawyer should be able to help you.
People who live together can decide on splitting the costs in any way they wish. One works and the other maintains the home and does charitable work they both believe in. Both work and one supports them both while the other supports a disabled child from a previous relationship, in a faciltiy. They share expenses and household chores equally. As live-in partners they can arrange their finances as they see fit. I imagine that is something APS and lawyers have to consider.
So your mother, apparently, is supporting her partner. This is only bad if he tricked her into it or is blackmailing her, etc. If she is willing, it is OK.
But she is cognitively impaired. Can she really make such decisions? It is probably legal for her to do so. "Impaired" is definitely not the same as "incompetent." Even dementia does not automatically make one incompetent in the eyes of the law. Severely cognitively impaired? That might translate into incompetent. Has more than one doctor expressed the opinion that she is incompetent to make her own decisions? Would a court appointed investigator find that she is incompetent?
The thing that really bothers me is "he is isolating her from me." Is he doing this on this own, or does he have some kind of legal authorization to do this? POA is not sufficient to do this, but healthcare proxy would be, if he claims your visits are bad for her mental health. What were your visits like before he took over being her POA? Were you frequently talking against him then, trying to get her to kick him out, etc.? Did she become upset over your visits? This is the one issue I'd go back to APS and the lawyer about. How can you get more visiting time with your mother?
As for the amount of compensation -- would I provide care 365 nights a year, and assist with care 365 days a year for $25,000 a year plus room and board and all the bird seed I could want thrown in? OMG -- no, a thousand times no! Only love could induce me to do that. I cared for my demented husband 10 years. I helped care for my mother as she developed dementia. I know what the job is like. I would do it again for someone I loved very much. For $25,000/year plus room and board? Ain't no way that would go down!
"in addition he had her sign her house over to him via a living trust," vs. "when she dies he stays in the house (which will be owned by me) for the rest of his life".
If title to the house was transferred to a living trust and he's named as the one to inherit, then how is it that the you "own the house." Or are you saying that title was vested in your name, a trust and deed were executed, deed was recorded, and he'll inherit the house.
I'm confused by this aspect.
How old has he been caring for her? Were you providing care before he took over?
The situation is concerning in the event she should need to apply for Medicaid in the future, which seems possible given her age and her degree of disability. Without a written caregiver agreement, his payments could be deemed to be gifts, plus the transfer of a life estate in the house could be deemed to be a gift, that could give rise to a penalty under Medicaid if she should need Medicaid within 5 years. I hope he does have a care plan in place for when and if she runs out of money.
i am not taking issue with the level of care she is receiving the paid caregivers provide excellent care. in addition, they also clean the house, run errands, cook and serve BOTH of them meals and do laundry for BOTH of them. they deserve every penny they are paid. however, she is a 2-person assist and he should not be handling her solo. i agree with you - she is getting far better one-on-one care at home, but it's not inexpensive and she doesn't have the resources to fund it long-term. my issue here is that he is blowing through her $$ with no regard for her long term future - she is only 77 years old. he has no plans to continue the home health situation with his own financial resources.
he is not a reasonable human being, impossible to have a rational discussion with him as far as i'm concerned he's exploiting her and stealing from her. at the very least i would expect restitution, but i am not ruling out prosecuting him you should know that he had her make the poa change from me to him because he didn't want me "interfering" in her life. this was done AFTER the psych evaluation that diagnosed her as being cognitively impaired. in addition he had her sign her house over to him via a living trust, again, after the diagnosis. plus he paid the legal fees for both of these actions. AND she pays 100% of the household expense, and i mean everything....down to the birdseed. so let's put it in perspective - he is getting a free ride living in her house, paying no living expenses. he is taking more than $2K per month from her for his "services" and when she dies he stays in the house (which will be owned by me) for the rest of his life. he can have the d*mn house, i just want to be able to spend time with her. i am only allowed to visit for 1 hour every 2 weeks under the scrutiny of his video surveillance. it's a really messed up deal.
If you feel strongly about it, the only remedy I know of is to seek conservatorship of her assets and/or guardianship of her person. These are court proceedings. She would have to be demonstrably incompetent to make her own decisions regarding her assets and her care. Bear in mind that he might challenge you in court on that, or claim that he should be her guardian if anyone. She clearly is in a position to be exploited, whether she's actually being exploited or not. The fact that he is unwilling to account to her family and is trying to isolate her are worrisome signs, in my book, that there is the potential for exploitation there.
Seriously, you think that $25 annually is a large amount for the work?
Assume he is only the sole caregiver over night...all seven days are covered. At 7 nights, for 8 hours. That is roughly 2900 hours a year. Or approx $8.50 per hour. Would you do that job for that small amount? If he was paying a caregiver it would be $15 - $20 per hour
Next..why do you assume that 24/7 in a NH is better than that care at home? Especially with 3 caregivers...no one is facing burn out. She had more assistant at home than a NH would or could provide.
I think you jump to too many conclusions. You reported him to APS...they looked...they see nothing wrong
Finally...where do you suppose the agencies hire the "professionals" ... they take anyone with a clean criminal record off the street. Give them 8 hour class...send them out. They get paid minimum wage while the agency gets $20-$25 per hours. Some professional..eh? If I had to choose between a so-called professional or family .... the family wins.
Strictly speaking, no. Unless it's specifically provided for in the documentation, a person with POA may not benefit financially from performing that role - so you can claim back money you've laid out on the person's behalf, or travel expenses for her benefit, things like that, but not make a living or a profit.
The question is, though, what do you want to do about it? Are you able to have a calm, candid talk with him about how he's handling this?
the poa provides for him to be compensated for acting as her poa (for which he is also receiving my mother's funds), doesn't address any other scenarios for him to be compensated. i do know that out of the annual expense for her home health care, he is 1/3 of the total. i also know that the paid caregivers are there approx 85-90 hrs per week, about 1/2 of the 168 hours in a week. i can assume that he is paying himself for the hours the caregivers are not there, which is no small amount - in excess of $25K annually. i seriously doubt my mother is even aware that he is being compensated, he professes that he cares for her out of "love". with a lack of specific direction, is it legal for him to decide as her poa to hire himself to provide care at a comparable or lower rate than outside caregivers? he is not a trained professional.
It's possible that the POA itself provides for him to be compensated for looking after her. Is there any way you or somebody else could get to see the documentation?
he is isolating her from me, so i don't have a lot of info, but i just discovered that he has been paying himself in addition to paid caregivers. my mother has had multiple strokes and a major seizure, she is dead weight unable to stand on her own, she has swallowing issues and takes daily breathing treatments. she has been diagnosed as severely cognitively impaired. if there is a any type of agreement between them, i'm assuming that he would have executed it as her poa. in addition, she has been paying and continues to pay all household expenses for him to live in her house. that's the reason he keeps her at home - so that he will have a place to live. he is squandering her resources when what she really needs is 24-hour skilled care. i have reported him to adult protective services, engaged an elder attorney but every time i think i have some recourse, i run into a wall. thanks for replying so quickly
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
I wasn't paid...but..$25,000 a year is laughable for pay to do that job! Yeah..even twice that would not be enough.
But, I remember my brother constantly trying to get his nose in. I believe he only wanted money. Only wanted to figure out if I was "wasting" their money on their care. He wanted to do whatever he could to ensure his inheritance. Well phooey on that!
I did not provide any documentation to him...I was not required to...plus their financial information was none of his business.
You took this to APS. I assure you they investigated.
I think you are like my brother...trying to get into the middle where you do not belong.
If you feel you have a case...go to court and get guardianship,if you can. Otherwise...do what you can to mend the relationship with the man who is caring hands-on for your mother.
Does her partner hold a job? Or does he stay home all day so that Mother can have a two-person lift at all times? If it really takes two people to care for Mother, then the "professional" (means they took an 8-hour class and are being paid) caregivers can't really do it alone, can they?
If they've had a long-term, loving relationship, and APS and a lawyer can't tell you what actions to take, maybe you should just butt out.
If the relationship has been abusive or exploitative from the beginning, that is a different matter, but then a lawyer should be able to help you.
People who live together can decide on splitting the costs in any way they wish. One works and the other maintains the home and does charitable work they both believe in. Both work and one supports them both while the other supports a disabled child from a previous relationship, in a faciltiy. They share expenses and household chores equally. As live-in partners they can arrange their finances as they see fit. I imagine that is something APS and lawyers have to consider.
So your mother, apparently, is supporting her partner. This is only bad if he tricked her into it or is blackmailing her, etc. If she is willing, it is OK.
But she is cognitively impaired. Can she really make such decisions? It is probably legal for her to do so. "Impaired" is definitely not the same as "incompetent." Even dementia does not automatically make one incompetent in the eyes of the law. Severely cognitively impaired? That might translate into incompetent. Has more than one doctor expressed the opinion that she is incompetent to make her own decisions? Would a court appointed investigator find that she is incompetent?
The thing that really bothers me is "he is isolating her from me." Is he doing this on this own, or does he have some kind of legal authorization to do this? POA is not sufficient to do this, but healthcare proxy would be, if he claims your visits are bad for her mental health. What were your visits like before he took over being her POA? Were you frequently talking against him then, trying to get her to kick him out, etc.? Did she become upset over your visits? This is the one issue I'd go back to APS and the lawyer about. How can you get more visiting time with your mother?
As for the amount of compensation -- would I provide care 365 nights a year, and assist with care 365 days a year for $25,000 a year plus room and board and all the bird seed I could want thrown in? OMG -- no, a thousand times no! Only love could induce me to do that. I cared for my demented husband 10 years. I helped care for my mother as she developed dementia. I know what the job is like. I would do it again for someone I loved very much. For $25,000/year plus room and board? Ain't no way that would go down!
"in addition he had her sign her house over to him via a living trust," vs.
"when she dies he stays in the house (which will be owned by me) for the rest of his life".
If title to the house was transferred to a living trust and he's named as the one to inherit, then how is it that the you "own the house." Or are you saying that title was vested in your name, a trust and deed were executed, deed was recorded, and he'll inherit the house.
I'm confused by this aspect.
How old has he been caring for her? Were you providing care before he took over?
i agree with you - she is getting far better one-on-one care at home, but it's not inexpensive and she doesn't have the resources to fund it long-term.
my issue here is that he is blowing through her $$ with no regard for her long term future - she is only 77 years old. he has no plans to continue the home health situation with his own financial resources.
as far as i'm concerned he's exploiting her and stealing from her. at the very least i would expect restitution, but i am not ruling out prosecuting him
you should know that he had her make the poa change from me to him because he didn't want me "interfering" in her life. this was done AFTER the psych evaluation that diagnosed her as being cognitively impaired. in addition he had her sign her house over to him via a living trust, again, after the diagnosis. plus he paid the legal fees for both of these actions. AND she pays 100% of the household expense, and i mean everything....down to the birdseed.
so let's put it in perspective - he is getting a free ride living in her house, paying no living expenses. he is taking more than $2K per month from her for his "services" and when she dies he stays in the house (which will be owned by me) for the rest of his life.
he can have the d*mn house, i just want to be able to spend time with her. i am only allowed to visit for 1 hour every 2 weeks under the scrutiny of his video surveillance.
it's a really messed up deal.
Assume he is only the sole caregiver over night...all seven days are covered. At 7 nights, for 8 hours. That is roughly 2900 hours a year. Or approx $8.50 per hour. Would you do that job for that small amount? If he was paying a caregiver it would be $15 - $20 per hour
Next..why do you assume that 24/7 in a NH is better than that care at home? Especially with 3 caregivers...no one is facing burn out. She had more assistant at home than a NH would or could provide.
I think you jump to too many conclusions. You reported him to APS...they looked...they see nothing wrong
Finally...where do you suppose the agencies hire the "professionals" ... they take anyone with a clean criminal record off the street. Give them 8 hour class...send them out. They get paid minimum wage while the agency gets $20-$25 per hours. Some professional..eh? If I had to choose between a so-called professional or family .... the family wins.
The question is, though, what do you want to do about it? Are you able to have a calm, candid talk with him about how he's handling this?
with a lack of specific direction, is it legal for him to decide as her poa to hire himself to provide care at a comparable or lower rate than outside caregivers? he is not a trained professional.
in addition, she has been paying and continues to pay all household expenses for him to live in her house. that's the reason he keeps her at home - so that he will have a place to live.
he is squandering her resources when what she really needs is 24-hour skilled care.
i have reported him to adult protective services, engaged an elder attorney but every time i think i have some recourse, i run into a wall.
thanks for replying so quickly